Simultaneous combat

[luke83]

Ok so xcom 1,2 only had turned based combat, Apocalypse had the option of turn base OR real time however lately i have been thinking about how "Simultaneous combat " might work.

General concept is this ,  You get your turn , you issue your orders but no one moves until the PLAY button is pressed, The enemy ( Alien AI or Human ( multi-player)) does the same thing in his turn. Once the pre-set time limit is done and the Play phase is over you issue the next lot of orders.

 I just keep thinking of the surprise grenades being thrown before you have a chance to react OR the ambushes from now where and the amount of Fear it could in-still in the players. Plus there is the whole Multi-player aspect as you wont be Waiting very long as you will be issuing orders or watching it play out for most of the time.

 Has anyone seen this style of game anywhere else , i am curios if it works under any conditions? I really don't expect to see it implemented as a optional feature , its just something i wanted to talk about ( maybe my brain will let me go to sleep now i have posted it )

[michal]

Look at this, haven't played it, but they said it's simultanous turn based strategy game:

https://www.frozensynapse.com/

[pmprog]

I love Frozen Synapse. Not played it for ages though

Otherwise you're pretty much talking any real-time strategy game, basically. Syndicate Wars anyone?

I could be wrong, but I'd be very surprised if it would be easy enough to implement this in OpenXcom, the designs for an RTS is completely different to a TBS

[SupSuper]

I think he's talking about simultaneous turn-based, which isn't the same as real-time, although very different from standard turn-based.

Michal is right, Frozen Synapse works exactly like you mention, you should try it if you're curious, I think there's a a demo. It plays out completely differently from standard turn-based though, while it might be fun it's very different gameplay that requires completely different strategies and ways of thinking (and personally I'm not good at it ). I'm not sure it would fit X-Com.

[pmprog]

I think he's talking about simultaneous turn-based, which isn't the same as real-time, although very different from standard turn-based.

Actually, I was speaking to the guys who wrote Frozen Synapse, and they said FS is actually a real-time strategy engine, the game is just segmented in it's playback. Which if you think that if you paused Starcraft 2 every 10 seconds to change each units orders, amounts to the same thing.

I also have a spare FS key (2-for-1 when you bought the beta), so if anyone wants it, you're welcome to it, as none of my friends are interested.

They also had a few people mention adding XCOM style base bits to FS early on, but they didn't want to go that route.

I think the whole unit inventory section of XCOM would make it too complicated. FS doesn't have inventory per unit, so it's not a problem there.

[luke83]

Why does everyone keep stealing my ideas
FS looks interesting , i will get the download to see how it works..

"I think the whole unit inventory section of XCOM would make it too complicated."  Wouldn't you only have access to inventory for changing weapons etc once per turn ( i normally don't have enough Timeunits to do more that in xcom anyway). My only concern If someone was to try this in xcom would be the unknown terrain , how far can you walk into the darkness ( UN-explored mapblock) in one turn?

 Time like this i wish i could actually code so i could make a little xcom prototype just to see what does and does not work

[pmprog]

I hope you don't consider me going offtopic, but I have looked into simulataneous turn based games before - I made a 5-a-side football game (it was pretty shoddy), and was going to remake it, looking and playing a lot better.

Anyway...

Wouldn't you only have access to inventory for changing weapons etc once per turn

Well, if you consider what you can do in the inventory in XCOM, you'll have to support that. Which is reloading, throwing weapons, moving items, picking up off the floor, dropping on the floor. There's a lot of commands to clutter the UI

how far can you walk into the darkness ( UN-explored mapblock) in one turn?

What you'll find when you play FS is that you just set the destinations, and what happens is you unit will run at the speed (s)he's allowed to get as close to that point as they can in the turn time. However, when the turn ends, they retain the "plan" of getting to the destination, but they now start closer.

What this also means is that at the end of the turn, you can change the destination (if they didn't make it there), and it generates them a new route. You also allow them to plan multiple destinations (consider the waypoint for the blaster launcher), and per turn they'll slowly work their way through.

Amongst moving, however, in FS, is when an enemy unit is spotted, it automatically takes a shot (unless you set the player to "dash" mode, which ignores enemies). However, in XCOM, it'd be difficult to plan "reloading", unless you made it automatic if they were carrying ammo.

So there would definately be complications using Simul-TB with XCOM, some things you could work around (reloading), but some things I think would be too difficult (stunning and capturing aliens without firing at the first).

Grab FS, and give us a shout if you want an opponent. I really think you'll like it. I'm logged as "marqw", I'm not sure if server matters, if you want to add me as a friend in there

[luke83]

I have been thinking about HOW this could work all day within the xcom game, i will post it later  (not that i actually think anyone will ever write code for it but still it may be good for some discussion as i think i have thought of everything ).

Update:
 Ok so what if you have have a option to specify path and Break points and attack options:

At the start of each turn you can choose to place several path markers to have your unit move along ( Kinda the same principle as specifying a Blastabombs path), when using this option the unit will just move from point A to B to C Etc, ignoring everything else going on. I guess this would be the RAPID MOVEMENT PMPROG mentioned.

For Break point you could specify your path as before but when it your solider reaches the break point he can perform another option that you previously specified before moving onto next path point or action. Example, solider moves from point A to Point B ( which is a break point) he then access his inventory and lobs a live grenade, he then uses his remains time units to take cover whilst the grenade is still airborne.  Example 2: Your approaching a unexplored building , you don't want to go rushing inside using just "path option" in case a alien steps out. So you place a Break point just outside and just inside the door, now your soldier approaches the outside of the door without spotting a alien , since no other option was specified at this point , he then enters the room to find a sectoid on a stair case, since he has reached another break point he then drops into a crouch position and with his reaming Time units has a chance of some reaction fire.  Break Points would allow for weapon reloading and for taking a defensive position if a new enemy is spotted.

Shooting, at the start of your turn OR at any break point you can specify 3 separate aliens you would like to target ( in order of preference) and assuming they don't move out of sight OR die in the during the PLAY phase, your solider will use his points to try to kill it as instructed.

Everything is controlled with Timeunits like now but everyone gets to move at the same time.  the PLAY time would be somewhere between 5-10 seconds at a guess, this would need to be tweaked to get it right.

BONUS would be for Muiltplayer and Battle-scape playback options to post on youtube or share with your friends

[luke83]

What you'll find when you play FS is that you just set the destinations, and what happens is you unit will run at the speed (s)he's allowed to get as close to that point as they can in the turn time. However, when the turn ends, they retain the "plan" of getting to the destination, but they now start closer.

I was more thinking you would plan out your path and get a Live count of how many Time-units would be used as you move and place Break points, this way each turn you could map out everything you wanted to and always know where you will end up ( This would keep the strategy side of it as you would be planning things out more).

I should also note, every break point should cost you some time units, just so your not just placing them over and over. Also there should be a option you can pre-set for break point, if your solider reaches one and spots a enermy will he prefer to use his remaing Time Units on ducking for cover and if point remain trying to reaction fire him OR should he just go in like Rambo and keep blasting to hope he hits something

[Volutar]

FS has fixed "time slices" just because of multiplaying nature of game. in single game you may pause RT process whenever you want. Just like in "Planet Alcatraz".