Author Topic: Brainstorm  (Read 1118 times)

Offline SuperCaffeineDude

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Brainstorm
« on: October 02, 2019, 03:17:28 am »
Hi, wanted to contribute a number of suggestions, some of these may already exist in some capacity, many I'm sure have been suggested, but I wanted to voice them.

1.Transformations == Weapon/Unit
1.1: On Death Transform (In Game: Zombie dies transforming into a Chrysalid)
1.2: On Hit Transform (In Game: Chrysalid strikes soldier transforming them into a zombie)

1.3: On Hit Consume User (Example: The unit leaps onto the face of a soldier, transforming them into a zombie, but they remove themselves as a unit)
1.4: Transformation Delay 0-X (Example: A unit (like a civilian) may spend X number of turns before converting to a zombie (transforms between player and enemy turn))
1.4.1: Can Cure With X (Example: Anti-Virus halts the Transformation clock)
1.5 On transform retain gear

2.Gore == Unit
2.0: Gore colour (Black oil, Red blood, Green/Purple/Yellow/Blue alien blood etc.)
2.1: Blood Trail, when a wound is dealt a bit of blood is left on the floor
2.2: Overkill activates different corpse images, battlemap and inventory
2.3: Giblets 0-X tiles, on overkill an explosion drops random giblets within radius, this could just be an animation of blood droplets
2.4: Shrapnel Radius, Amount, Damage, Like a top down shotgun blast, fragments of bone/metal scatter
2.4: Bloody Water 0-X tiles, when underwater the corpse obscures with Gore coloured smoke


3.Melee Attack Types == Weapon // Probably a more useful suggestion
3.1: "Strike" 1 tile facing (In Game)
3.1.1: Number of strikes in attack
3.2: "Swing" amount, the number of surrounding tiles struck to left and right of the tile attacked (max 4 = a round swing, 1 = a sword swipe, 0 = forward strike (max different for a 4 tile unit))
3.3: "Reach" amount, the attack can strike further than 1 tile

4.Self Harm == AI // Suicide Units
4.1 Is afraid to hurt self using items (true/false)
4.2 Cares about blast radius using items (true/false)
4.3 Triggers [StunSelf/KillSelf/ExplodeSelf(+exp-types)]
4.3.1 When dead (true/false)
4.3.2 When Unconscious (true/false)
4.3.3 When Mind Controlled (true/false) // Really would be good to buff aliens with lower psi defence that work alongside psi-units

5. Area to Head == AI (I'm too basic to use this )
Spoiler:
5.1. Areas of Interest
5.1.1 Most Player
5.1.2 Least Player (trouble enough getting them to engage)
5.1.3 Home
5.1.4 Least Aliens
5.2 Aliens seek Most Hostiles for X turns
5.3 Civilians seek Most Player and Least Hostiles indefinitely
5.4. Am Leader, will remain within X tiles of Home
5.4.1 Am guard, will remain within X tiles of leader

6. Vampiric Drain == Weapon // Wanted for Calcinite may be possible love to know what to declare if so
6.1 Takes X away from target, Grants Y to user (Takes HP for HP, or nightmare-thing might take away bravery (spc psi cake mission in xcom files))

7. Acid "Fire" (Fire Spite changed to pool of bubbling acid)
7.1 The acid attack drops a pool of acid at the feet of target
(I'm guessing this can already be done)

8. Push == Weapon // useful for creating an arsenal of telekinetic powers, melee weapons, explosive effects. allows manipulation of environment to suit player
8.1 Relative to projectile the target is pushed back x tiles (maybe corpse weight could be used to throw them??) if there is nothing blocking it from being so (allows for grenades to push things (ideally shotguns too but no idea how the scatter would work with the effect))
8.1.1 Effects on 4 tile monsters, default 0
8.1.2 -1/-2/etc causes Pull
8.1.3 Items are thrown with relative strength from point of explosion

9. Random weather == Misson
8.1 Rain cascades down in overlay.
8.2 Rain increases the effect distance has on weapons, and slightly reduces sight
8.3 Fog slightly increases the effect distance has on weapons, and greatly reduces sight
Bit of a spitball, wouldn't add much, but might mix up the fighting conditions

10. Enemy Waves == Mission
1.1 Initial Unit pool
1.2 On turn X send UnitPoolY
1.2.1 From edge of map
1.2.2 Spawn from specific tile types (Enemy Reinforcement Tile)

Will add to if I have any more ideas (I know that's not what you need lol, but I like to store my thoughts),
Thanks to the few of you working OpenXcomExtended you guys are wizards!
« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 05:19:47 pm by SuperCaffeineDude »

wcho035

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Re: Brainstorm
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2019, 05:34:29 am »
Wow...  :o. I thought I was greedy..

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Brainstorm
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2019, 08:33:54 pm »
Hi, wanted to contribute a number of suggestions, some of these may already exist in some capacity, many I'm sure have been suggested, but I wanted to voice them.

While I'm no coder, I would like to share some insight as a modder.

1.Transformations == Weapon/Unit
1.3: On Hit Consume User (Example: The unit leaps onto the face of a soldier, transforming them into a zombie, but they remove themselves as a unit)
1.4: Transformation Delay 0-X (Example: A unit (like a civilian) may spend X number of turns before converting to a zombie (transforms between player and enemy turn))

Sounds pretty useful. I think we can get more interesting AI behaviour with minimal effort, and this is a good example. (Brainsuckers and all that.) Also ties directly to the suicide bomber below.

1.4.1: Can Cure With X (Example: Anti-Virus halts the Transformation clock)
1.5 On transform retain gear

This sounds pretty difficult and tryhardy to my sensibility.

2.Gore == Unit
2.0: Gore colour (Black oil, Red blood, Green/Purple/Yellow/Blue alien blood etc.)

This is something I've requested several years ago. So let me elaborate on this concept:
My idea for implementation was to define a special animation of flying chunks of flesh, and tie it to overkill (when the unit disappears completely without leaving the corpse). By default it would be red, I guess. It would also require and additional recolour, defined by armour (black for robots, green for aliens, orange for other aliens, etc.).
An additional layer: define not one, but multiple[/] gore animations. The one above would be default, but you can also set alternative ones per weapon; for example, a Lightning Thrower would turn the unit into a pile of ash instead.

2.1: Blood Trail, when a wound is dealt a bit of blood is left on the floor

That's cool, if not very consequential. Would require defining blood colour per armour though.

3.Melee Attack Types == Weapon // Probably a more useful suggestion
3.1: "Strike" 1 tile facing (In Game)
3.1.1: Number of strikes in attack
3.2: "Swing" amount, the number of surrounding tiles struck to left and right of the tile attacked (max 4 = a round swing, 1 = a sword swipe, 0 = forward strike (max different for a 4 tile unit))
3.3: "Reach" amount, the attack can strike further than 1 tile

It's a fascinating subject, but the sheer amount of work required makes me unwilling to make specific suggestions.

4.Self Harm == AI // Suicide Units
4.1 Is afraid to hurt self using items (true/false)
4.2 Cares about blast radius using items (true/false)
4.3 Triggers [StunSelf/KillSelf/ExplodeSelf(+exp-types)]
4.3.1 When dead (true/false)
4.3.2 When Unconscious (true/false)
4.3.3 When Mind Controlled (true/false) // Really would be good to buff aliens with lower psi defence that work alongside psi-units

Self-destructive AI units is something that keeps coming up. Yes, we need it. Badly. :)

5. Area to Head == AI (I'm too basic to use this )
Spoiler:
5.1. Areas of Interest
5.1.1 Most Player
5.1.2 Least Player (trouble enough getting them to engage)
5.1.3 Home
5.1.4 Least Aliens
5.2 Aliens seek Most Hostiles for X turns
5.3 Civilians seek Most Player and Least Hostiles indefinitely
5.4. Am Leader, will remain within X tiles of Home
5.4.1 Am guard, will remain within X tiles of leader

I think this is a bit too far out to consider at the moment, unless you find a committed AI coder.

6. Vampiric Drain == Weapon // Wanted for Calcinite may be possible love to know what to declare if so
6.1 Takes X away from target, Grants Y to user (Takes HP for HP, or nightmare-thing might take away bravery (spc psi cake mission in xcom files))

Already available through scripts, and used in some mods.

7. Acid "Fire" (Fire Spite changed to pool of bubbling acid)
7.1 The acid attack drops a pool of acid at the feet of target
(I'm guessing this can already be done)

No, this is definitely something far from what can be done...
Can you elaborate on this one? How exactly would it work?

8. Push == Weapon // useful for creating an arsenal of telekinetic powers, melee weapons, explosive effects. allows manipulation of environment to suit player

This is sort of being worked on already. Or at least seriously planned.

9. Random weather == Misson
8.1 Rain cascades down in overlay.
8.2 Rain increases the effect distance has on weapons, and slightly reduces sight
8.3 Fog slightly increases the effect distance has on weapons, and greatly reduces sight
Bit of a spitball, wouldn't add much, but might mix up the fighting conditions

An interesting idea, I like it, but it requires much more development.

10. Enemy Waves == Mission
1.1 Initial Unit pool
1.2 On turn X send UnitPoolY
1.2.1 From edge of map
1.2.2 Spawn from specific tile types (Enemy Reinforcement Tile)

Requested by me long ago, with some more specifications. Hopefully will happen.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 01:53:03 am by Solarius Scorch »

Offline SuperCaffeineDude

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Re: Brainstorm
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2019, 01:02:07 am »
Your insight is welcome Solarius, if committed modders like yourself wouldn't use these suggestions, they definitely shouldn't be done on my whimsy.

1.3 (On Hit Consume User) Yeah I kind of see this a no-nonsense approach to getting "parasite host" monsters, suicide could be used (i.e. hits enemy, but dies) if we could remove the survival instinct, but then there's problems with whether it leaves a corpse and what happens if it doesn't succeed in its attack I guess.

1.4 (Transformation Delay) Personally for me, I'd like this because you could have;
A. hatching eggs
B. deploying machines
C. civilians hosting enemies
D. undercover civilian terrorists (though maybe that should itself be a suggestion)

1.5 (Retain Gear) I like the idea of retaining gear, I believe you can already simulate retaining armor by making a different zombie when a target with armor-X is hit (??), it would be an interesting option for a type of zombie with high enough motor-function to shoot (without relying on them to pick up a dropped gun),
(Plus I have this vision of a jellyfish that lands on your head and makes you blast your friends away)

2 (Gore) I think I did read through your wishlist after this, I've tried to keep it basic, in my mind's-eye there is a lot you could potentially do with overkill.

3 (Melee) Yeah I'm pretty much just pissing in the dark with this, I've read some comments that melee was a pain to sort out, however... value added would be enormous I think.
I mocked up how I'd kind of picture it...

Attack = Katana Slash, Melee_Reach = 0, Melee_Swing = 2, Attacks = 1
Attack  = Duel Slash, Melee_Reach = 0, Melee_Swing = 2, Attacks = 2
Attack = Spear Jab, Melee_Reach = 1, Melee_Swing = 0, Attacks = 1
Attack = Greatsword swing Melee_Reach = 1, Melee_Swing = 2, Attacks = 1
I guess another two variables come to mind
A. The effect on the tiles before reach (the difference between an overhead greatsword strike, and the jab of a pike) maybe 0.0 to 1.0
B. The impact on subsequent targets (the sword losses momentum per target) (less important)
There's probably work that be done communicating the AOE to. And also melee defence you could talk about.

6 (Vamp Weapons) Cool, that can be lower hanging fruit for me to have a go at, I heard it alluded to, wasn't sure it ever got done.

7 (Acid Effect) Right, well basically it'd just be a tile of fire that deals acid damage, and made to look like acid. When it hits a unit it deals base damage and has a chance of inflicting a Corrosion status, it then "ignites" the tile below target with a pool of acid, that (should you walk through it) will itself inflict damage, the effect would not last as long as fire, nor spread like fire, it would quickly corrode armor points

I was thinking this might be useful for the Celatid and any additional units (snakemen spitters, acid goo, etc)

8 (Push/Pull Weapons) Excellent, I think that'll be really cool

9 (Weather) Yeah, It's not super useful, I kind of run out of steam writing it, if I were to re-envision it...
Quote
9.Environmental Effects == Mission ...
9.01 Environment Type (Name)
9.02 Excluded Armors/Weapons
9.02.1 Or Permitted Armors/Weapons
9.03 Battle Overlay GIF/Sprite (Falling Snow/Ash/Rain, Fog (I guess this would have to be a gray-toned pallet due to texture restrictions))
9.04 Colour Pallet (Underwater/Fog/ClearNight/RainyDay)
9.05 Throwing Distance Reduction 0-1
9.06 Damage Reduction over Range *X (Firing lasers in fog/water)
9.07 Sight Reduction 0-1
9.07.1 Effects Aliens (True/Flase)
9.08 Illumination Reduction 0-1
9.09 AllowToFly X Armor (if submersed a light diving suit can swim, if in space a heavy suit may use CO2 to propel around)
9.10 Fall Damage Reduction 0-1
9.11 Scatter Chance Increase
Some of that is in already or can be simulated, but that's a few ideas for a "biome profile"

10 (Enemy Waves). It would be very cool, it would give people a lot of options making defence missions.
I would add to it that you'd need the ability to decide if the player must wait for more enemies to spawn-in before they can complete the mission.
I'm sure this is well-trodden ground though, lol.

Thanks for your thoughts, I enjoy thinking about these things
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 12:37:22 pm by SuperCaffeineDude »

Offline The Martian

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Re: Brainstorm
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2019, 02:02:03 pm »
3.Melee Attack Types == Weapon // Probably a more useful suggestion
3.1: "Strike" 1 tile facing (In Game)
3.1.1: Number of strikes in attack
3.2: "Swing" amount, the number of surrounding tiles struck to left and right of the tile attacked (max 4 = a round swing, 1 = a sword swipe, 0 = forward strike (max different for a 4 tile unit))
3.3: "Reach" amount, the attack can strike further than 1 tile
The addition of the ability to make a Melee attack strike multple times per attack and also a variable to control the reach would be most welcome.

The solution to work around the current limitations I've been thinking about is: (Requires
OXCE)
. Using maxRange to limit the distance of the attack.
. Set weapon damage type to damageType to 7 (Melee)
. Use accuracyMultiplier to set the weapon to melee: 1.0 (100% melee accuracy based instead of firing accuracy.)
. Make the weapon projectile use an invisible sprite.
. Projectile travel speed as close to instant as you can make it.
. Give the hitAnimation a melee related sprite set.
. Prevent projectile from damaging terrain by using the ToTile: 0 Item Damage Types modifier.
. Set projectile to arcingShot: true to prevent it from traveling past the intended range limit.

The negatives of this method are:
. Arcing shot can sometimes still travel past the intended range limit.
. Arcing shot can have trouble firing forward when indoors with low ceilings.
. Melee attacks that miss will display the hitAnimation on the terrain tile they strike.

It's not perfect, but I think it will kind of work as long as the range is only 2-3 more tiles than normal.




Self-destructive AI units is something that keeps coming up. Yes, we need it. Badly. :)
Indeed! ^_^



8. Push == Weapon // useful for creating an arsenal of telekinetic powers, melee weapons, explosive effects. allows manipulation of environment to suit player
8.1 Relative to projectile the target is pushed back x tiles (maybe corpse weight could be used to throw them??) if there is nothing blocking it from being so (allows for grenades to push things (ideally shotguns too but no idea how the scatter would work with the effect))
8.1.1 Effects on 4 tile monsters, default 0
8.1.2 -1/-2/etc causes Pull
8.1.3 Items are thrown with relative strength from point of explosion
This is sort of being worked on already. Or at least seriously planned.
Pushing is interesting... but pulling... I can see so many great uses for impacts that pull when used by enemy units.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 03:36:52 pm by The Martian »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Brainstorm
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2019, 03:59:45 pm »
Actually the plans include all sorts of movements: pushing, pulling, jumping, charging, maybe even some sort of climbing... ;)

But they're still just plans.