Medicals balance

[mumble]

So I had a thought recently about the medical bag. It seems a little redundant to me, but I only really understood why recently.

Currently, it has 1 of each heal, stims and pain killers (though its important to note pain killers seem less useful) in the bag, weighs 5 units, and is 2x2 blocks.

But honestly, once sprays and stims are available, I don't bother ever again, and the medkit is better in every way EXCEPT weight, afaik. Infact, I never legitimately use the medbag, unless its just lying around.

I'm was trying to figure out what is so bad, and I think I figured out why I don't bother. It's too big. Not too HEAVY, too big, 2x2 is a lot of real estate for 1 heal when a a kit has 3, and trauma pack has 5, and considering pain killers aren't super important (heals, stims, and pain killers seems like the hierarchy of medicine in this) its arguably better to spend an extra 10 weight on a kit, or have a spray and stim to similar effect, 2 less spaces, and only 1 weight more. The extra space invest is nuts for it, so ive been thinking.

Could we reduce the med bag to a 1x2, like pistols? Enable slightly more flexibility, carrying 2 med bags in a belt, a med bag in quick draw, and obviously you can carry 3 on belt / qd, but then the kit is more effective greatly.

I CAN actually see myself using the medical bag this way, as a small gear on troops, to augment additional medics, whatever, and I don't think it would make medical bags overpowered, considering 5 is still heavier than spray, and 1x2 is also bigger than spray, but it would make it a little more attractive as an option, rather than feeling like a cheap knock off medkit that barely works for anything.

I'm not sure how you feel on it, but I think this would work better.

[krautbernd]

I'd second the idea, the med bag always felt weirdly misplaced, since it becomes redundant once you get the sprays. I can forgo stims and painkillers, but heals are critical and i can carry four sprays in place of one med bag.

The 2x2 is what really kills it for me, since that's a lot of space early in the game when all you have are suits and coats.

[Toothless Shark]

Yeah, i agree. 2x2 is too much for it's worth. Makes sense to make it smaller too since it holds less meds in it. I'm also for reducing it to 1x2 size. I think i used it only once or twice as it is now, would use it much more if it was smaller.
My system is that i use first aid kits and trauma bags whenever i can because they are replenished at the end of the battle. Sprays (normal and advanced) are quite expensive so i use them only when agent doesn't have enough strenght to carry a weapon and one of those kits.
I only used med bag until sprays become available and after that there is no longer a point. If it was 1x2 i WOULD use it since it gets replenished and is cheaper solution then spray. Small spray would still be smaller and lighter so it would also be used and advanced spray has 3 uses even if it's also 1x2 size.

[Solarius Scorch]

Medical Bag's main advantage over the spray is that it actually returns some health.
I can think of a smaller variant, though.

[mumble]

I'm not trying to say there's no situation where it is useful, I'm saying where it's useful is so incredibly fringe that people barely use it. As is most injuries deal at least 2 fatal wounds so a bag alone rarely saves anyone, and the healing off 1 heal is often lost to subsequent bleeding so a medkit weight be dammed, isn't worth it. My proposition still makes medkits and spray superior upgrades in ways of efficiency of storage and performance, but gives medbags a larger niche.

I've actually watched streamers a lot, and nobody with skills uses it, and those who do usually end up worse off. Kits always provide enough to heal an average injury, sprays are more compact (and almost equal in weight) despite the cost, and trauma packs are another thing entirely. At half size, a medical bag and 2 sprays, or medkit and 1 med bag would be viable combos, or just putting a med bag on the belt without consuming so much space.

[Thunderwing280]

How about changing the med bag to a standard issue military med kit which could be 1x2 but just do the same thing as the med bag, description something like:

These are regular army med kits, they can quickly patch up minor wounds but for anything major it's best to use something larger

Looks something like this

[Solarius Scorch]

How about this.

[Andserk]

Is it possible to make it so it only stops bleeding? I'm thinking 2 heals, 1 painkiller, no stim, self applying with no health recovery. I always thought it was weird that you couldn't bandage yourself.

[Solarius Scorch]

Is it possible to make it so it only stops bleeding? I'm thinking 2 heals, 1 painkiller, no stim, self applying with no health recovery. I always thought it was weird that you couldn't bandage yourself.

Yes, you can do that, but then it would be the same as the spray.

[Andserk]

sprays do recover some health and you could carry 4 sprays instead of a bag, then only advantage of the bag over the spray would be that it's refillable and cheap. maybe it still outclasses the spray, I don't know, I still think it would be cool to have an option to stop your own bleeding, maybe even at a penalty of losing morale.

Edit: I just checked the ufopedia and the spray do not recover health, and every healing item have a morale penalty, nevermind. That first aid kit does look cool though.

[mumble]

I dont really think heal and painkiller makes sense. Pain killers aren't immediately first aid, they are more delayed treatment typically speaking. Stims however have a real usage.

The sprite looks good but a bit... Egg like? I'd make it more square but 2x1 is a bigger improvement than I was asking for so I have no room to complain, besides making it a 2x1 pouch that is like a glasses case opening, rather than a deep pouch sideways. But that's a big improvement. Also making it 3 weight would be a little op, keep it 5.weight is fine, but the size was extremely prohibitive.

[Toothless Shark]

Yeah, you can keep weight 5, its fine. If it's refillable and 2x1 or 1x2 i can see myself using it much more often. Looks good too.

[Andserk]

It would make sense in a realistic scenario, you wouldn't find combat enhancing drugs or a shot of adrenaline in a standard military IFAK kit, not even in an EMTs pack but you would find ibuprofen/aspirin/acetaminophen.
I'm with you that painkillers are nearly useless in the game though, maybe the there should be a greater morale penalty for early healing items since morale is kind of related to pain, or getting bigger morale hits when wounded in combat but i'm not sure if that's hard-codded or something.

[Solarius Scorch]

I would definitely welcome more use for painkillers, but we have what we have...

[mumble]

Guess it depends on the kit, but most kits have at least smelling salts, or something that stinks so bad you are forced awake. And in a kit that small, a packet of smelling salts aren't unlikely, but I'm wondering if we really need to cut pain killers / stims anyways.

I'm also not keen on healing dealing morale damage when being HURT already deals it, as does being attacked, and tons of stuff. I think it could cause issues.

What I wouldn't mind, is maybe a general stat multiplier for the things by moral, so higher moral is better performance and vice versa, even just by a little.

Its also important to note that NORMAL painkillers only raise MORALE EQUAL to the morale lost from injury, so its generally not so useful.