Author Topic: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread  (Read 445780 times)

Offline Meridian

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1185 on: September 20, 2022, 01:04:33 pm »
Ok, sorry, I misunderstood src/AIModule.cpp, around the condition "if (_save->getMissionType() != "STR_BASE_DEFENSE")". So in base defense missions the scout mode should always be enabled, not just forced on after turn 20.

But the real question then is what I wondered already: why are the aliens (in some base defense missions) just minimally moving back and forth where they are, compared to the open UFO recovery map and at least eventually coming at you? If it's supposed to work roughly the same way, is there a bug or what's explaining the difference?

"scout mode" and "cheat visibility" are two unrelated things

"scout mode" is always disabled for base defense (as you already found out)
"cheat visibility" is enabled and works the same way as for other missions

they're moving minimally, because of various reasons, there's no single reason... the parameters of the mission and the map just prefer ambush and combat over patrolling; the patrol nodes are not optimized for scouting, forced scouting (a.k.a. "scout mode") does not apply, player actions (or non-actions) result in similar alien reactions, and so on and so on...

AI "intelligence" in (open)xcom is an illusion, see below.

From this perspective, I kind of agree. I would just like to understand how this is supposed to work. If the base defenses are supposed to be alien "hide and seek" and "attack the aliens" missions, fine. The contrast is just very high, when most of the time the aliens appear come at you in a rampage instead. Well, I suppose one could argue that it's good that the player cannot anticipate in advance which behavior the aliens are going to adopt.
 
In the same vein, the current game is "broken" from player perspective by offering way too much cover in your craft in terror/UFO/base attack missions so that staying in the craft is often considered more or less cheesy. Obviously in some mods this may be mitigated slightly (e.g. crafts which only drop you off and don't offer cover), but this needs to be taken to account when balancing the game. In some missions the difficulty is scaled in such a manner that the missions are not really survivable if you immediately exit the craft full-out.

There is (intentionally) no rule or algorithm how it is supposed to work.

If you do some actions, it will turn into a "hide and seek"; if you do other actions it will turn into a "attack the aliens". If you do yet something else, it will turn into "something else".

Xcom AI is extremely stupid, you could even say there is no AI.
It's just a set of a few rules, what to roughly do in response to the general game state (game state being most heavily affected by player's actions) and the RNG.
It's almost purely reactive, the aliens DO NOT have a plan.
Practically everything we could call "intelligence" is a complete illusion in xcom... an "emergent behavior" if you wish.

It's not the aliens who invented let's say camping... it's the player who observed a certain response pattern based on a certain playstyle... and called it "alien camping".
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 01:08:47 pm by Meridian »

Offline StarMan

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1186 on: September 20, 2022, 08:55:30 pm »
I noticed that when you sort soldiers they are sorted to the bottom. With the most proficient being last. Ascending order.

Offline psavola

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1187 on: September 21, 2022, 09:40:59 am »
"scout mode" and "cheat visibility" are two unrelated things

"scout mode" is always disabled for base defense (as you already found out)
"cheat visibility" is enabled and works the same way as for other missions

they're moving minimally, because of various reasons, there's no single reason... the parameters of the mission and the map just prefer ambush and combat over patrolling; the patrol nodes are not optimized for scouting, forced scouting (a.k.a. "scout mode") does not apply, player actions (or non-actions) result in similar alien reactions, and so on and so on...

In AIModule::setupPatrol(), the loop "while (_toNode == 0 && triesLeft)" scout boolean is set to true at start, and set to false in some circumstances before the "cheating turn" comes, but never in base defense missions. So isn't the scout boolean, at least in this "_toNode == 0" path, always enabled in base defense missions. Or are you referring to something else with "scout mode" always being disabled in base defense. But nonetheless, the reason why the patrolling doesn't necessarily result in much movement or spotting the X-COM troops may depend on various things. I didn't completely understand all the "logic" built into think() and evaluateAIMode(), but I could suspect the most important one in base defense missions could possibly be the setup of nodes between which the patrolling could occur.

In a recent base defense, I certainly spotted some curious behavior which could easily be seen when the bug hunt mode was enabled around turn 30, such as a drowned terrorist (which is a LeeroyJenkins unit) sitting idle even though there were a couple of X-COM units nearby, and an alien or two not really moving around in a hangar, even though they were not panicking. I suppose I should try to turn on AI debugging sometime to try to understand what they are supposed to be doing.

Offline Meridian

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1188 on: September 21, 2022, 09:20:11 pm »
There is a small but irritating issue with the soldier sorting dropdown on the soldiers screen. When the screen is first opened, or the list has been sorted via one of the sorting options, opening the dropdown starts you with the list scrolled to the top. However, as soon as you manually sort the soldiers via the arrow buttons, the sorting list will be scrolled all the way to the bottom when you use the dropdown.

This is somewhat annoying because sometimes I will accidentally reorder the soldiers when I hadn't intended to. In such cases I use the sorting menu to reset the list to "original order", but I always have to first scroll the list because that sorting option is right at the top of the list.

I hope this can be adjusted.

Done.

Offline Meridian

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1189 on: September 25, 2022, 09:46:51 pm »
New OXCE v7.7.3 is up.

2022-09-25
QoL:
 - Improved soldier renaming in the Inventory: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10745.msg149116.html#msg149116

Features:
 - Better handling of "unselected" combobox: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,6586.msg149222.html#msg149222
 - Don't scare people without TFTD resources (by a false error in the log)
 - Save file more verbose again
 - Clearer error message on `addLine` map script command failure

Modding:
 - Hire scientists/engineers base function gate: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10765.0.html
 - Option to display weapon range in pedia shot type, part 2: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,10711.msg149115.html#msg149115

Scripting:

Bugfixes:
 - Fixed crash at mission start (NPE)
 - Melee attacks from ranged weapons now identifiable in soldier stats (by karadoc): https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/pull/99
 - Avoided some divisions by zero when modders are not careful

Download: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5258.0.html

Ruleset validator was updated.
Wiki ruleset reference was updated.
Auto-update is available on Windows.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2022, 09:00:10 pm by Meridian »

Offline BTAxis

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1190 on: September 27, 2022, 05:21:00 pm »
Done.

Thank you Meridian, much appreciated.

I noticed another minor thing with the soldier sorting. By design, if you hold Ctrl while sorting, the soldier list doesn't sort but only shows the values for the sorting criterion you selected. However, if you then open the sort dropdown again and click somewhere outside the list to close the dropdown without selecting a sort criterion, the soldier list is sorted as per the criterion selected (unless again Ctrl is held). I think that closing the dropdown this way should not apply any sort action.

Offline Charly1

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1191 on: September 29, 2022, 03:38:20 am »
I was thinking of installing this on my girlfriends laptop. Was I right in thinking previous versions needed the original game installed? Is that a requirement for this? It would mean me installing steam too, and that might annoy her even more ...

Cheers!

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Offline Meridian

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1192 on: September 29, 2022, 05:08:57 am »
Yes

Offline Charly1

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1193 on: September 29, 2022, 12:46:46 pm »
Sorry. Yes it was a requirement, or yes it is a requirement?

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Offline Meridian

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1194 on: September 29, 2022, 01:13:50 pm »
Yes, any version of Openxcom still requires the original game files.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1195 on: September 29, 2022, 02:32:17 pm »
You can just copy the files though, you don't need to install Steam.

Offline Charly1

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1196 on: September 29, 2022, 09:33:26 pm »
 Thanks for the responses guys.

Ok... copy just the open xcom directory? I assume the installation copies the files from the original?

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Offline psavola

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1197 on: October 01, 2022, 02:13:55 pm »
Is there a way to enable/disable craft weapons except in dogfight mode? (Disabled craft weapons show up with '*' in base craft view.) If there isn't, it would be very beneficial to have a way.

The use case in TFTD mods is equipping crafts with sonic oscillators and PWT launchers, but using PWT launchers only when having to deal with hunter-killers. You need to keep PWTs enabled except always disable them in planned casual dogfights; there isn't enough time to activate them if you get attacked by HK and they are disabled. The same applies for fusion ball launchers, I suppose.

Offline Meridian

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1198 on: October 01, 2022, 02:21:36 pm »
Is there a way to enable/disable craft weapons except in dogfight mode? (Disabled craft weapons show up with '*' in base craft view.) If there isn't, it would be very beneficial to have a way.

The use case in TFTD mods is equipping crafts with sonic oscillators and PWT launchers, but using PWT launchers only when having to deal with hunter-killers. You need to keep PWTs enabled except always disable them in planned casual dogfights; there isn't enough time to activate them if you get attacked by HK and they are disabled. The same applies for fusion ball launchers, I suppose.

click on the weapon icon in the base craft view

Offline psavola

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #1199 on: October 01, 2022, 04:37:40 pm »
click on the weapon icon in the base craft view

Excellent, thanks!