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Author Topic: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread  (Read 291246 times)

Offline tkzv

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #225 on: July 07, 2019, 11:58:53 am »
When route is plotted for a kneeling operative, TUs to kneel again are not shown. If this bug was reported previously, I haven't found it.

Example. A kneeling operative has 60 TUs, aimed shot takes 42 TUs, kneeling takes 4 TUs. Buttons are pressed to reserved TUs for kneeling and aimed shot. In the plotted straight route 2 steps are shown green — with 48 (correct) and 44 (incorrect) TUs left. If I try to walk him along this route, he stops at 48, and 44 is shown as yellow (correct).

Observed on OXCE builds 5.5.1-d20b54d00 from June 14 and 5.5.2-ccf1eee4a from June 23.

Offline Meridian

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #226 on: July 07, 2019, 02:48:23 pm »
Has this changed from previous version or is it something completely new that you would like to have?

Offline tkzv

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #227 on: July 08, 2019, 05:21:51 am »
Never paid attention, frankly. I checked some old versions. So far:
5.1 from 2018-10-14 behaves the same;
OXCE+ 3.10 from 2018-06-20 behaves the same;
OXC from 2018-01-05 and 2019-07-03 behave the same.

I won't be able to compile and test anything older until tomorrow (much later, more likely), but it's clearly has been that way for years. When a unit is kneeling, the "reserve time units for kneeling" button doesn't affect the displayed route.

It's clearly an incorrect behaviour, which hasn't bothered people much.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 05:46:26 am by tkzv »

Offline krautbernd

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #228 on: July 08, 2019, 12:59:32 pm »
I had trouble understanding this at fist, on account of the "TUs to kneel again are not shown"-part, since TUs "shown" don't take into account reserved actions. The TU count displayed simply reflects the TUs you've left when you reach that square.

The problem is that route colouration doesn't take into account the fact that you've reserved TUs for kneeling when you start out in that position. It's like the game assumes that since you start out in that stance you'll stay kneeling for the whole path, hence not taking the additional 4 TUs into account. This sounds like a bug to me, since the coloration doesn't match the reserved actions. Or is the colouration only supposed to reflect reserved shots?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 01:01:33 pm by krautbernd »

Offline Meridian

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #229 on: July 08, 2019, 01:45:44 pm »
Or is the colouration only supposed to reflect reserved shots?

I don't know.
It's not like we have a specification for that, it's not vanilla.

Offline krautbernd

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #230 on: July 08, 2019, 01:49:19 pm »
I don't know.
It's not like we have a specification for that, it's not vanilla.
Yeah, but somebody designed and implemented that mechanic. Was the idea behind that mechanic to not take into account kneeling costs when you start out kneeling? Was it supposed to only apply to reserved shots? Because it's not a bug if it's working as intended.

Offline Ridаn

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #231 on: July 08, 2019, 02:07:42 pm »
According to ufopedia it just accounts for being able to move and fire.
Never actually seen anyone use those buttons, especially kneeling one.

Offline krautbernd

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #232 on: July 08, 2019, 03:15:53 pm »
According to ufopedia it just accounts for being able to move and fire.
Quote
Display path taken with colored arrows: green - can move and fire; yellow - can move; red - cannot move.
Move and fire it is, apparently. Says nothing about kneeling.

Never actually seen anyone use those buttons, especially kneeling one.
How many people have you watched, actually?

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #233 on: July 08, 2019, 08:58:01 pm »
I've seen it... But I doubt more than 5% of players actually use them. It's probably still too generous. ;)

Offline wolfreal

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #234 on: July 08, 2019, 09:10:10 pm »
I stooped using it like four years ago. But before, I used them a lot.

Offline Meridian

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #235 on: July 08, 2019, 09:13:53 pm »
I see it with beginners quite a lot.

For experienced players, I strongly recommend not using any TU reserve, both kneel and shoot. You can do better on your own.

Offline tkzv

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #236 on: July 08, 2019, 09:33:51 pm »
Or is the colouration only supposed to reflect reserved shots?
It does reflect TUs reserved for kneeling when the operative is standing.
I don't know.
It's not like we have a specification for that, it's not vanilla.
Recent vanilla behaves exactly the same.

And I use kneeling reserve constantly — to look around.

Offline Meridian

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #237 on: July 08, 2019, 09:41:22 pm »
Recent vanilla behaves exactly the same.

OpenXcom is not vanilla :)
I meant original from 1994.

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #238 on: July 09, 2019, 01:37:12 am »
I was under the impression that most people, especially veterans, used the TU reserve buttons. I use them frequently, usually to move several soldiers quickly without overspending their TUs. It's a great timesaver at times, but sometimes I turn it off because the amount I want to reserve isn't an available option.

While we're on the subject of the movement and indicators, I have noticed another bug quite a few times: When a soldier with 8-11 time units tries to walk through a closed door, they open the door (spending 4 time units) and then stop, giving you the error that they do not have enough time units to proceed. You have to issue the order a second time to get them through the door. I suspect that what's happening is the game deducts the 4 TUs for opening the door without going through it, then incorrectly tests for 8 time units remaining for going through a closed door. It may be failing to update the door's status on the time unit checker.


He's serious.
The feature though is completely redundant/irrelevant IMO, feels like it's done only because it can be done, no other reason.
But maybe it's just me...
That's X-Piratez's features in a nutshell. The mod uses features because they are available. I like it, because it's a one-stop shop for modding examples. X-Piratez plus the ruleset reference (fantastic work on the OXCE documentation btw) will get you enough info to type up almost any mod features short of scripts.

Offline N7Kopper

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Re: OXCE (OpenXcom Extended) main thread
« Reply #239 on: July 16, 2019, 09:06:20 pm »
I was under the impression that most people, especially veterans, used the TU reserve buttons. I use them frequently, usually to move several soldiers quickly without overspending their TUs. It's a great timesaver at times, but sometimes I turn it off because the amount I want to reserve isn't an available option.
I would probably use them a lot more often if it wasn't for OCX's route indicators. Sure beats having to remember the exact TU costs for every type of terrain in the game, for both vanilla jogging and OCX sprinting and strafing. Also misclicks. Misclicks are the work of T'Leth.

While we're on the subject of the movement and indicators, I have noticed another bug quite a few times: When a soldier with 8-11 time units tries to walk through a closed door, they open the door (spending 4 time units) and then stop, giving you the error that they do not have enough time units to proceed. You have to issue the order a second time to get them through the door. I suspect that what's happening is the game deducts the 4 TUs for opening the door without going through it, then incorrectly tests for 8 time units remaining for going through a closed door. It may be failing to update the door's status on the time unit checker.
The route indicators aren't perfect, you usually still do have to eyeball things like getting up from a crouch and opening automatic doors. (Countless rookies have been spared horrible death from tactical suicide by the humble right click-to-strafe combo emulating real life breaching techniques.) Guess it's just like vanilla, given how you always had to factor in TU costs for turning when reserving for shots. It would make sense that the route indicator's displayed cost is what the game internally uses for checking if you have enough TUs to keep moving, as opposed to how many TUs you currently actually have.