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Author Topic: Feedback 0.99I1  (Read 11107 times)

Offline Eddie

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Feedback 0.99I1
« on: February 19, 2018, 09:04:54 pm »
Here is some quick feedback from me on the current version. Since the next release is not too far away, I should say what I have to say now so any improvement that come from it might already be in the next release. I've only made it to april of the first year so far, so this is just early game feedback. I play on the highest difficulty and so far have not found it annoying.

Overall, the balance is quite satisfactory. I have so far not seen any "this is best in every situation on every gal" type item.


Airbus range:
I had my base in north america, and the first misson spawned in asia and was just out of my reach. By literally one pixel, my airbus could not reach the target. To preserve my nerves, I edited the save to give it just a tiny bit more fuel.
So... is it too much to ask to give the airbus global range? Otherwise you are pretty much limited to europe as your starting base if you don't want RNG misson generation to annoy you. Other solution: extra battery as a range extender, which costs you one crew slot. Extra fuel tanks have already been discussed for craft, not sure if crew capacity can be modified though. I have already suggested a pupup to notify you that the target is out of range, so you can equip the extra battery before you start flying to an unreachable destination.
I had the same situation later with the blowfish. Just give it a little more range plz, it's slow enough. It makes craft selection quite annoying. I want to keep the airbus because of Dr. X mission later. I need the blowfish for underwater missions. And then I also need a third craft for range? I got an airspeeder, the aircar has not enough range. Now I need a fourth hangar for an aircar to equip light craft weapons.


Weapon selection:
I try to capture everything if possible, that limits my weapon selection. I do extensive testing on my weapon choices, so I'm pretty sure they are the most effective ones. Here is what I have used so far.

Melee
- Handle: Best basic melee stun weapon. Does just enough health damage to stop stun recovery for most enemies.
- Stun baton: for skilled girls slightly better than the handle. Also, some enemies have resistance to stun but less to electroshock (zombies for example). Downside is, enemies might get back up.
- cattle prod: can take down anything (even mechtoids), doesn't need skill. Use on armoured targets and/or for unskilled gals.
- fistycuffs: most dps with skilled gal. Surpasses handle dps at roughly 100 melee skill. Restricted to beefy targets like Ninjas or Werewolfs as soft targets can get killed easily by this weapon.
- Leather whip: use on ratmen and dogs. Their dodge is too high for regular melee, but they have little hp. The whip cannot be dodged.

To fight Sky Ninjas, I though about using leathal melee as I was afraid their dodge is too much. Turned out my gals are skilled enough that fisticuffs do work. When I run my spreadsheet to calculate melee damage, I'm always surprised that the leathal weapons don't really do more dps. The sabre would have been the top choice for Ninjas, but not by much. If you need close range leathal damage, the sawed off shotgun is the best option most of the time.
I needed to use the anchor once on a academy outpost zombie mission to kill the chryssalids. It was on urban map and I could shoot down from a building.

Ranged:
- mini las-charger: can damage most things, but does little damage. Useful because of infinite ammo. Best uses: Shambler hunt. I had my gals at the edge of the map, near a cave entrance. I expected to need to dive for safety, but I could just wait and reaction fire down the shamblers. The damage of the mini las-charger is low enough that the shamblers don't die but fall unconscious. I also use the mini charger to kill academy drones. It can take alot of shots before one does damage, but it is possible. You train firing that way.
- Ramshackle rifle: for long range. Can damage most medium armored enemies (the bullets have 0.85 armor modifier). Useful to kill academy drones. Also can damage chrysallids. Replaced by RFC carbine once you find any.
- domestic shotgun with rubber bullets: Standard long range stun. Great that they deal also health damage now. Just enough to prevent stun regeneration. Once you find police shotguns, you get even better range.
- Sawed off shotgun: Safety weapon to keep on the belt, to get out of tight situations. Few things survive an auto shot from close range.
- Double barrel shotgun: A bit more range than the sawed off. Massive damage. The spread makes it uneffective beyond ~15 tiles.

Generally, shotguns rule the game. Why? Because they are dependable. RNG damage calculation cannot ruin your day (or far less likely). Things you hit almost always die and cannot shoot back.
Suggestion: To diversify ranged weapons, have some ammo with 50-150% damage range. Call it hallow point ammo maybe? I would need to playtest it, but it would certainly be interesting.
Bows used to be op, but the random health damage and no LoS penalty have nerfed them good. Now they are inferior to same tier firearms, which I think is ok. They still have a niche for their arcing shot and cheap ammo. If you hit a ratman and he is bleeding, he will still die eventually.


Armour:
I found the uber clothing mostly inferor to tribal, as the increased stamina regeneration is most useful for early melee capture play. When you have unlocked shotgun rubber bullets, the pirate clothing is best for the skill bonus. Also, the pirate outfit is better than barbarian for melee. The +15 melee on pirate is better than +10 melee and +10 strength on barbarian, or equal. I suggest giving the barbarian the +15 melee and the pirate +10. The barbarian suffers from the stamina penalty, which is required for melee fighting. Maybe drop that, the acc penalty is enough I think. The armor could also be 25 all around to actually choose the outfit for the armor (shotgun protection).
The shield version of barbarian gives close to 100 front dodge on maxed gals. This can be used to tank melee enemies (werewolves for example) at your craft doors.

I like the enviroment effects. They force you to switch armor and playstyle. I had a military transport in march and since then really enjoy the heavy armours I got. It doesn't make my gals invulnerable but reduces the time on easy missons. I would suggest adding a chance of heavy armor to warehouse wars or similar missions, like they have a chance of spacesuit right now. Over time you will get a few heavy armours that will speed up easy missions.
Edit: Or have armour as a bounty hunting reward item. Not buyable, but in exchange for tokens like you can get slaves when you have bank favors.

The latest cheese: door camping
I fought two werewolf missions by camping in my craft. I had two gals with barbarian and shield that could tank the doorway, but in those two missions just a single werewolf ever opened the doors. Can the AI be made to rush your craft more by putting additional waypoints inside the craft? I'm not familiar with how that works, but I would like to be pressured more in my craft. Door camping should not be that effective.

As always, thank you Dioxine for making this mod and still doing updates! And thanks to Meridian and ohartenstein23 for the coding effort!

Edit: spelling fixed
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 12:01:32 am by Eddie »

Offline wolfreal

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Re: Feedback 0.99I1
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2018, 01:49:10 am »
Airbus range:

I think it is OK as it is. The thing is, it force you to move to another craft faster. Maybe the bateries Idea are not so bad, but in the end, you can do the doctor X mission with another crafts (Aircar per example, but I´m not pretty sure). That is the Idea. You should no be able to reach everything on the start of the game.

Armor: Just to say that I love environment conditions too. It is hard at the start of the game, but you learn faster to control the conditions (Bring protective gear, correct amours, canteen and beers, etc).
 
 

Offline Eddie

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Re: Feedback 0.99I1
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2018, 02:10:11 am »
That is the Idea. You should no be able to reach everything on the start of the game.

There is the problem. By having your starting base in europe your airbus will be able to reach almost everywhere, negating the range problem. Contrary to other base locations. It may be intentional game design, but it can also be considered a noob trap for players that don't know this. This leads to the unneccesary frustration of "I should have put my base somewhere else". I would be fine with it if there was not one location that is clearly superior to everywhere else.
The original game was intentionally designed to have the first ufo appear near your base, no matter where you placed it. I liked that.

Offline BBHood217

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Re: Feedback 0.99I1
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2018, 05:17:21 am »
By the time you've realized that starting anywhere other than Europe was a bad idea, you should only be a couple or so months into the game so there's really no major setback to just starting all over again and putting your first base on Europe.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 05:18:53 am by BBHood217 »

Offline wolfreal

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Re: Feedback 0.99I1
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2018, 06:54:57 am »
There is the problem. By having your starting base in europe your airbus will be able to reach almost everywhere, negating the range problem. Contrary to other base locations. It may be intentional game design, but it can also be considered a noob trap for players that don't know this. This leads to the unneccesary frustration of "I should have put my base somewhere else". I would be fine with it if there was not one location that is clearly superior to everywhere else.
The original game was intentionally designed to have the first ufo appear near your base, no matter where you placed it. I liked that.

In the mod, the first month ufos appears in the zone too. But the missions I think no. Like in the original game, ufos appear on the zone, first terror anywhere.


Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: Feedback 0.99I1
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2018, 10:34:06 am »
Your first base anywhere but not in europe has it's drawbacks indeed.
But even in vanilla no sane person would drop the starting base on hawaii or onto north-/ southpole.
PirateZ is also not relying onto UFO's in the early game and instead most missions are triggered in the nearby cities or in close range to them.
So if you drop a base on an island with only 1-2 cities around or in scanner range, whelp there goes your early game.

X-Prison mission can only be done with either AIRBUS or AIRVAN.
The AIRCAR is not allowed if I remember correctly. Having only 4 hands with nothing but shivs really stretches your chances of success.

niculinux

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Re: Feedback 0.99I1
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2018, 11:26:05 am »
Airbus range:

I think it is OK as it is. The thing is, it force you to move to another craft faster. Maybe the bateries Idea are not so bad, but in the end, you can do the doctor X mission with another crafts (Aircar per example, but I´m not pretty sure). That is the Idea. You should no be able to reach everything on the start of the game.

Armor: Just to say that I love environment conditions too. It is hard at the start of the game, but you learn faster to control the conditions (Bring protective gear, correct amours, canteen and beers, etc).

First times I played the mod/game me to was really frustrated, but definitely agree with ajnunezr; it is a craft meant for Landing ground assaults in the very early game; on the other hand for the "terrain" mission/assault you may Always use an expedition, just build another hangar and one of these :)

Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: Feedback 0.99I1
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2018, 11:31:23 am »
Expeditions are extremely slow and the only possible use for these are best suited to send on a mission towards an enemy hideout.
Sometimes those pop up faster than you can manage to fully suit your army with decent guns and talented personell so you've to bring NUMBERS into play and use your best melee weaponry and flame throwers.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Feedback 0.99I1
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2018, 01:52:26 pm »
The problem of airbus range wasn't such a nuisance in previous versions because you could get the Pachyderm quite fast. Now it's locked behind a bounty reward.

Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: Feedback 0.99I1
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2018, 04:36:24 pm »
The airvan is the more reliable version of the same craft-design, just -1 soldier slot and no HWP slot.
The long way to your first hellerium-fueled craft can be bridged by using the codex-ships and you will use those for sure.
Every codex got at least one craft with a decent crew-strength (more than 6 hands *kappa*) and a battery-fueled 'fighter' like the scarab, Shadowbat, red scorpion or green snake.

Offline khade

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Re: Feedback 0.99I1
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2018, 07:48:14 am »
I've found that wherever you set up your base, something is going to be out of range.  I do like the idea of the spare battery, though I'd prefer it take a slot like the shadowtech or weapons do instead of taking a seat.  I imagine it wouldn't be available for the first month though, due to lack of access to markets.  I think it should be activated at the low on fuel, turning back popup and possibly burn out after use.

I do really like the idea of being informed of something being out of range, but I can't see the gals in the early game knowing that, and when they would, it would be largely irrelevant.  It could be an early research to possibly add distance from the ship and estimated flight time, I know Xenonauts has that, but it was built with it and I don't know if we can kludge that information into this system.

Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: Feedback 0.99I1
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2018, 04:58:36 pm »
Global strike range was something for the early versions of this mod (with starting craft boniventura) and just like vanilla worked.
Having a limited range barely reduces your progress since you can decide to not do missions. Yes score drops but you can net score points by doing research or do those missions you actually did 'really good' (everything captured, no hands lost, only a limited number of civilians killed during pogroms etc.).

Pogroms are all optional as long as they're titled as 'FREELANCE'.
No -500 for ignoring those but you shouldn't visit them in the first place and abort or it DOES COUNT.

With a second base in america (or in europe if you start in america) you have somewhat global strike range even with battery crafts.
Hunter-Killer sounds like alot of resources in the early game but those are your actual first 'real' fighter-class and better than most of the codex-fighters. SCARAB kicks ass if you can 'catch' your prey and have somewhat decent armament in store and ammo in stock.


Offline wolfreal

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Re: Feedback 0.99I1
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2018, 11:24:33 pm »
Range indicator sounds as a good Idea.

And, why not to reduce the range of every craft non - helerium based ? So you are obliged to expand early, use more the expedition/zepellin, or rush some tech, or the batteries/fuel tank addition as a more appealing idea, maybe in some slot as mentioned before. And maybe add some more missions in your starting region for the firsts months (3? 6?) to help a little. And make hellerium a little more costly to extract and buy, and a little more scarce in the beginning, so the beginning hellerium vehicles are a little more dificult to use?. And maybe the passenger ships you attack could be divided on low tier and high tier, the  low tier giving you small battery engines, the high giving you the normal small ship engines, and better captives? ;D

Now you have a limitation/difficulty added, 4 solutions, and possible a new dimension to the early/mid game. The "show range on map" idea sound better now.

But I don´t know if the game engine could manage the battery thing.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 11:26:50 pm by ajnunezr »

Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: Feedback 0.99I1
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2018, 11:39:29 pm »
I honestly don't think we need more early game encounters.
We have a garanteed spawning of academy goons searching for the hideout 100% in scanner range.
We have the bounty missions and plenty of other opportunities to get money.

If the early game becomes too generous, it steamrolls into a massive downgrade in difficulty overall.
The more money you get unchallenged, the faster you can 'affort' to hire brainers, runts and expand across the globe.

It currently feels 'just right' maybe except for corner cases of missions out of range (temple of sirius decides to spawn in the far edges of south america and africa *cough cough*)

Offline wolfreal

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Re: Feedback 0.99I1
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2018, 01:45:44 am »
No, more encounters no, encounters in range for the first two or three months IF the range of all crafts is reduce.