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Author Topic: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!  (Read 150969 times)

Offline Yirtimd2

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #750 on: May 23, 2021, 03:58:59 pm »
Yeah I guess it was rng after all... But I want human version of that armor, I think it has more potential there.

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #751 on: May 23, 2021, 06:48:12 pm »
I wouldn't say Carbon is gated behind RNG: It's got a very clear and very predictable path: You'll get it right after the Siberia Base Mission, because that's when you actually encounter the guys who drop it. It's got a HUGE number of production prerequisites, and is a technological dead end, though, as that particular research goes nowhere. So even if you managed to acquire the tech early somehow, you'd have no means of producing it without building a complete base that, at that point, would probably only be capable of producing it.

On top of that, it's only slightly better than chainmail (w/o shield) from the front (same from the sides, worse from behind), which was armor of the previous tier, and shares all of its deficiencies (can be penned by most opponents, bad TUs, considers waist-high fences to be their archnemesis).

As a human armor, it might compete favorably against Doom/Doom2, as male humans have very bad medium armor choices all throughout the game (your only medium armor options are Doom and Batman), and the peasant medium armor options are nonexistent.

Offline Yirtimd2

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #752 on: May 23, 2021, 08:06:14 pm »
Yeah! You said it better than me - carbon armor is useless right now but with some rework it would be great peasants' medium armor.

Offline MemoryTAS

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #753 on: May 23, 2021, 08:50:48 pm »
You might be able to get one of the enemies early if Humanists do a crackdown assuming supersoldiers show up in such an instancce.. Not sure if that's possible but I've seen Spartans do them so Humanists probably can too. If they can, then it's not impossible but it is rather unlikely. It also probably won't come at a point where it's actually useful.

Offline ZoA

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #754 on: May 23, 2021, 11:54:09 pm »
I have to disagree on utility of carbon armor. That thing has plasma damage modifier of 50%, and that fact alone makes it worth the effort as plasma is most frequent and most dangerous damage type in late game.

Other advantage of carbon armor is that it has good night vision an thermal vision, has no TU penalties (i acutely  avoid using power armor on my best gals as I hate TU penalties on anything I use for melee), and is simple to produce as it has only chemicals, life support and optronic parts as components, no need to mess with some long string of basal armor types or exotic components to produce carbon armors. On top of that it looks cool, all black and shit.

I use it as main armor type on my B team that i don't want to bother equipping with relay fancy and exotic armors. It is simply the best late game filler armor for cannon fodder and line grunts.

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #755 on: May 24, 2021, 12:12:08 pm »
I have to disagree on utility of carbon armor. That thing has plasma damage modifier of 50%, and that fact alone makes it worth the effort as plasma is most frequent and most dangerous damage type in late game.
Yes, but Chainmail already comes close to that with the (S) version having 60%, while NOT being vulnerable to the resulting secondary fire. This hardly matters, anyway. Even at 50%, from the front, a plasma rifle will still pen. This means you don't have adequate protection anyway and will still be using the standard methods.

Also, plasma is never the most dangerous damage type, it's always concussive. Only Plasma Scorchers even come close to the threat level posed by AI grenade cheats, as the AI doesn't have to pay TU costs for actually pulling a grenade out of his inventory and can use it with no hands.

Other advantage of carbon armor is that it has good night vision an thermal vision, has no TU penalties (i acutely  avoid using power armor on my best gals as I hate TU penalties on anything I use for melee)
No +TU modifier *IS* a TU penalty.

and is simple to produce as it has only chemicals, life support and optronic parts as components
...and requires a printer, which is means you have to have fully established a printer base just to print second-string armor that only comes into being at the very end of its tier.

I use it as main armor type on my B team that i don't want to bother equipping with relay fancy and exotic armors. It is simply the best late game filler armor for cannon fodder and line grunts.
I use Blitz for that role because Carbon penalizes you 30 TUs by comparison, and is easily thwarted by a waist-high fence. It does not hurt that at late game, it USED to be the primary line armor, so it has already been produced in abundance and is now being partially phased out in favor of Assault and Annihilator (but never entirely, it's just that good).

On secondary troops who don't have maxed TU and medals that grant more TU, losing 30 TU effectively immobilizes you. You will eat so much more fire simply because you can't get back under cover, and Carbon can still be penned by the vast majority of enemy types...while Blitz has a shield, which means you can always freely absorb some of the most dangerous threats that can't be dodged, so you won't get penned by even a bazooka trying to exit the ship. And it, too, has decent NV and ThV.

It doesn't help that the primary threat profile of second-line troops is generally not plasma-based, since you don't send second-string units out to fight plasma.

Offline ZoA

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #756 on: May 24, 2021, 05:06:39 pm »
Quote
Chainmail already comes close...

But carbon is still better in pretty much all aspects, NV, spot, mass, inventory, TU...

Quote
and requires a printer,

Why would you not have printers in late game, just for sake of runt workspace if for no other reasons? I have one in something like half of my bases.

Quote
I use Blitz for that role because Carbon penalizes you 30 TUs by comparison

Yes Blitz is better, and I use them if i have them hanging around, but they are hassle to make, require entire chain of prerequisite armors. If i need quick armor for new gal i dont have some used hand downs I'll just quickly make some carbon armour then going to hassle of building entire chain of prerequisite armors.

Offline Nalca

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #757 on: May 24, 2021, 10:28:12 pm »
Don't forget that you can hack humanist files and get the research on supersoldier earlier that way.

Also, it is completly immune to choking damage, nearly immune to cold / heat, take half damage from electricity and has spot: 5.

Offline legionof1

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #758 on: May 24, 2021, 10:29:33 pm »
Snip
as the AI doesn't have to pay TU costs for actually pulling a grenade out of his inventory and can use it with no hands.
Snip

While the AI does ignore hands being filled, it does Not ignore tu costs. Please do not spread disinformation.

Offline RolandVasko

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #759 on: May 25, 2021, 03:04:52 am »
Guys! I was thinking about "Carbon Armor" and I was like "Hmmm...". Maybe it would be better to have this technology a little bit earlier in the game and being easier to produce, because when I researched it I already had power armor tech and I was like "ehh, ok", but maybe I did something wrong in research order.

Also human version of that armor would be much more useful, especially for secret missions and if it will be available earlier in the game.

yap, or a.k.a.  Graphene Armor  ! do you mean

(..amybe with threads of molybdenite, too,   and others *ene, *ite compounds and elements)

Offline gijoe

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #760 on: May 25, 2021, 11:27:52 pm »
Mission idea:

"assault on a Megapol precinct"

a Megapol outpost in a city, with Megapol cops and dogs guarding some weapons and some unconscious prisoners , kept in the cells after a recent roundup

What do you think? I know it's not groundbreaking, but i wanted to give a minimal contribute

I like it too, might be a more advanved version of guild warehouse assault, with more advanced loot to obtain, and let megapol to "partecipate" to the plot too

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #761 on: May 30, 2021, 08:26:58 pm »
While the AI does ignore hands being filled, it does Not ignore tu costs.
I was explicitly told that the AI completely ignores the extremely large TU costs involved in moving a grenade from your inventory to your hand before you throw it, which makes it practically a free-to-use weapon the AI can spam quite recklessly, and he does. If you try to do this, it will eat up so many TUs that you won't be able to actually move into throwing position to actually use it, to the point where it's cheaper to do crazy unrealistic antics like "grenade relay" than to just pull the pin and throw the grenade like a normal person.

The AI? No such limitations, because he can freely teleport the grenade to his hands, he ignores the 30+ TU costs involved in putting your gun away, using the grenade, and then putting your gun back.

But carbon is still better in pretty much all aspects, NV, spot, mass, inventory, TU...
Better than what, Chainmail? Sure, and it damn well should be considering its MUCH higher prerequisites and tech level, being that it's practically at the end of T2 tech.

Why would you not have printers in late game, just for sake of runt workspace if for no other reasons? I have one in something like half of my bases.
Yes, and they're all very BUSY bases.

Yes Blitz is better, and I use them if i have them hanging around, but they are hassle to make, require entire chain of prerequisite armors.
It is mildly more complicated, but on the other hand, those prerequisite armors are things you already need to be churning out, or would be acquiring en-masse as loot. Swiftsuit production is needed to produce Drone Herders anyway.

What would make Carbon better is if it wasn't a dead end, but actually went somewhere, so became a component of upgraded carbon, like, say, flying or even shielded Carbon. As it stands, Carbon normally only producible mid-to-late, it is slow, cannot fly, and thus the protective value of it is mooted by the fact that anyone wearing it will not be participating in the battle. When you're lagging 30 TU behind and cannot fly on top, you're not a participant in this fight.

Offline legionof1

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #762 on: May 30, 2021, 11:59:59 pm »
I was explicitly told that the AI completely ignores the extremely large TU costs involved in moving a grenade from your inventory to your hand before you throw it
snip

The AI? No such limitations, because he can freely teleport the grenade to his hands, he ignores the 30+ TU costs involved in putting your gun away, using the grenade, and then putting your gun back.
snip

While it is true that the AI ignores the steps to juggle items(drop held item to ground 2tu, pickup item from ground 14 tu) it still pays the TU tax normally associated with passing an object from belt/backpack/ect to a hand, even when said hand is filled. This is usually where the misinformation stems from, what steps are skipped.

Yes the AI does cheat, but it's to cover for the fact that inventory management code does not exist and would be needless overhead quite frequently. Most of the time an AI never reloads its gun before it dies, and the majority of foes don't have any grenades at all.

So yes the AI gets 4 extra tiles of wiggle room when using a grenade with full hands, but it still pays in full to transfer, prime and throw.

You will see rather alot thrown sometimes because the AI retains spotted units tile location over several turns even when they move. So between spotter/sniper and multi turn knowledge of your position it can certainly appear to be throwing more then it should.   

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #763 on: May 31, 2021, 06:08:06 pm »
While it is true that the AI ignores the steps to juggle items(drop held item to ground 2tu, pickup item from ground 14 tu) it still pays the TU tax normally associated with passing an object from belt/backpack/ect to a hand, even when said hand is filled. This is usually where the misinformation stems from, what steps are skipped.
You sure of this? Because even with the TU levels on a Gal, or even a Syn, I find it nearly impossible to pull a grenade out, prime it, and then move into position and throw it. One of these steps usually has to be skipped, and it seems like the AI is skipping the "pull the grenade out" step, because he's totally visibly moving,  presumably priming, and throwing.

You will see rather alot thrown sometimes because the AI retains spotted units tile location over several turns even when they move. So between spotter/sniper and multi turn knowledge of your position it can certainly appear to be throwing more then it should.
Yeah, that's not it, because players have all these abilities also,

Yes the AI does cheat, but it's to cover for the fact that inventory management code does not exist and would be needless overhead quite frequently. Most of the time an AI never reloads its gun before it dies
Well, if he actually paid the costs of doing it, then it would effectively exist, but yes.

and the majority of foes don't have any grenades at all.
The sheer number of looted grenades I have would seem to disagree, unless you're counting civilians (and even some of THOSE have grenades) and animals, but those are more targets than foes. Pretty much every military-grade opponent has them.

Offline MemoryTAS

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Re: Stuff I'd love to see in XPiratez!
« Reply #764 on: May 31, 2021, 07:14:49 pm »
You sure of this? Because even with the TU levels on a Gal, or even a Syn, I find it nearly impossible to pull a grenade out, prime it, and then move into position and throw it. One of these steps usually has to be skipped, and it seems like the AI is skipping the "pull the grenade out" step, because he's totally visibly moving,  presumably priming, and throwing.
Depends on the exact location of the grenade in one's inventory. Different locations in one's inventory pay different TU costs. If you're pulling a grenade out of your backpack that will take a lot more TU than taking it out of your belt. Your belt is only 6 TUs and your backpack is like 20. It's totally possible to prime and throw a grenade and still have the time units to move some.