Author Topic: Rebalanced?  (Read 9189 times)

Offline deathonredbull

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Rebalanced?
« on: August 16, 2017, 06:38:14 pm »
Sorry if this has been raised countless times before: I started a game of Open X-Com yesterday for the first time ever, on beginner level. It seemed much harder than I remember it!

I have completed the vanilla game on PC and PS1, and distinctly remember that especially on beginner level, it introduces aliens and ships slowly; first you get small UFOs, then mediums, and so on. The first aliens you encounter are usually sectoids, and the game builds up to reveal the stronger enemies.

In my first game of beginner-level Open X-Com, I got a large UFO on day 1. Day 2 - terror mission. I responded to the terror mission, and my 8 man crew got obliterated by (at least) 4 cyberdiscs.

I may be going a bit mad, but the game didn't used to get that hard that quick, did it? On beginner?

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: Rebalanced?
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2017, 06:51:08 pm »
Welcome back to X-Com!  You just got lucky, there's always the monthly terror mission that uses large ships, it just came early for you.

Offline 7Saturn

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Re: Rebalanced?
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2017, 10:57:15 pm »
And of course the grey suckers take their little »toys« with them, when they go on a »hike« through a city. That you got four of them isn't that unlikely, although it's a bit heavy for the first mission. Just start over a new game and see what happens. Usually the terror mission is in the last third of January. And it's not necessarily a Sectoid mission. Can also be a Floater mission. On the other hand, one can see this as an opportunity: If you succeed in taking the Sectoid leader as prisoner (and have the containment facility ready), you might end up with psi abilities already in May or June.

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Rebalanced?
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2017, 12:14:49 am »
In my first game of beginner-level Open X-Com, I got a large UFO on day 1. Day 2 - terror mission. I responded to the terror mission, and my 8 man crew got obliterated by (at least) 4 cyberdiscs.

Are you using any mods? Because getting a Large UFO on January 1st doesn't seem normal

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

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Re: Rebalanced?
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2017, 10:29:56 am »
The ruleset lists the missionScript "recurringTerror" as having a starting delay of 150, compare with "gameStart" which has a starting delay of 120 and tends to begin in as little as 2 hours from the start of the game. I don't know where to look up what "recurringTerror" entails, but evidently it can start in 2½ hours, assuming the time is in minutes. That doesn't tell how soon you can see a terror mission at the earliest, and I know they vary but I usually see them near the end of the month.

Offline SteamXCOM

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Re: Rebalanced?
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2017, 07:32:48 pm »

In my first game of beginner-level Open X-Com, I got a large UFO on day 1. Day 2 - terror mission. I responded to the terror mission, and my 8 man crew got obliterated by (at least) 4 cyberdiscs.


You just have to learn to throw in the towel.  On an early mission, I too  only to lost all my men, though after the 4th and certainly 5th I should have gotten a clue and headed back to the house.  With that being said, yes there seems to be less of a build-up to difficulty and more random  among the very  first missions, UNTENABLE, compared to  what I remember back in the olden days.  4 cyberdisks on beginner though, HOLY COW.

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

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Re: Rebalanced?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 09:13:54 am »
4 cyberdisks on beginner though, HOLY COW.
That's not very strange, really. A beginner-difficulty terror mission with sectoids has 2-6 cyberdiscs. It seems like a lot but the first terror mission gets pretty much everyone unless you're lucky and it's floaters. Veterans know how to take out cyberdiscs with starter tech but new players usually wind up taking their last 1-2 soldiers who haven't panicked and fleeing the mission.

If any of you had a different experience your first time playing, it was probably due to one of the following things:
1.) your first terror site was floaters
2.) you skipped your first terror site
3.) you used rocket launchers and/or rocket tanks a lot in the early game
4.) you only got 2 cyberdiscs
5.) you brought laser pistols to the first terror mission

Any of these aren't so uncommon for a first time player on any difficulty setting. The real thing that makes beginner easier is how much less armor the cyberdiscs have. They can still kill but you can kill them with a heavy cannon shot of HE, whereas on higher difficulties their armor makes them next to invulnerable to heavy cannon fire.

Offline SteamXCOM

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Re: Rebalanced?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2017, 07:28:54 pm »
Yep, that mission I told you about, got smeared by floaters and their froglike dino critters,
embarrassing

Offline Dr.Crowley

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Re: Rebalanced?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2017, 12:43:01 am »
Heh, some people are even (un)lucky enough to have their base attacked on January, 9th (skip to 1:55):
Spoiler:
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 01:28:50 am by Dr.Crowley »

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

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Re: Rebalanced?
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2017, 07:40:40 pm »
Yeah check out my post in the Playthroughs forum called Fastest Game Over Ever if you want to see one in which the base got attacked on day 2 after shooting down a small scout. It can happen, fortunately a fast game over doesn't take a lot of play time away from you--but you can also save after you get your starting changes done, then if you lose quick, try reloading and see if it doesn't happen that way the second time. Just make sure you have save scumming allowed in the options, or if not do something different when you reload. Usually one of two things happens:
1.) it was already decided when you saved, and it happens basically the same way (same ship arrives in the same region at the same time, etc.) - just give up and start a new game or skip the mission if you can
2.) it wasn't decided and the game plays out differently, probably easier - if you lose quickly in a very different fashion, it's a fluke and you can probably just try again and do fine


I have completed the vanilla game on PC and PS1, and distinctly remember that especially on beginner level, it introduces aliens and ships slowly; first you get small UFOs, then mediums, and so on. The first aliens you encounter are usually sectoids, and the game builds up to reveal the stronger enemies.
I missed this earlier. The game actually goes a little strong on you right from the start. You tend to encounter sectoids and floaters in the first month and they are a godsend in small ships, but sectoids are very dangerous in larger ships and cyberdiscs remain the most effective hovertank busters into the late game. You're going to get a terror mission some time in the first month and from then on you'll tend to see more large ships than mediums. The game doesn't really go easy on you unless you can get personal armor while the aliens are still using plasma pistols, power suits while they are still using plasma rifles, and blaster launchers/psionics by the time they start cheesing you with ethereals. So I personally find the difficulty is a matter of research choice--sometimes I deliberately skip laser research in favor of making a beeline to armor research, and just try to squeeze in plasma guns before snakemen come along.

You can also buy time by scoring just enough points to stay afloat, so the aliens don't grow as fast. Sometimes beginners feel like the game is easier because they aren't shooting everything down and instead just go to landed craft and terror sites, which reduces retaliation missions and alien power creep. Brilliant, I think. I go crazy shooting down everything and it makes the game harder, which is great because I'm pretty used to it--but as many ships as I get coming at me wouldn't be good for a new player.

Offline tkzv

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Re: Rebalanced?
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2017, 08:32:40 pm »
In my first game of beginner-level Open X-Com, I got a large UFO on day 1. Day 2 - terror mission. I responded to the terror mission, and my 8 man crew got obliterated by (at least) 4 cyberdiscs.

I may be going a bit mad, but the game didn't used to get that hard that quick, did it? On beginner?

On my 2nd playthrough of the original UFO: Enemy Unknown I got 2 UFOs and then a terror mission (either in Melbourne or Canberra -- and the base was in Budapest) within a week. There were at least 3 cyberdiscs, which I've beaten with stun rods. I don't remember if this was the mission where I shot 5 sectoids near the ramp (of those 4 with stray bullets through fence), probably not. I didn't lose any operatives, but reloaded some 50-100 times.

P.S. It was on the easiest difficulty.

P.P.S. Just noticed: the 1st week of January 1999 is only 3 days long.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 12:00:02 am by tkzv »

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

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Re: Rebalanced?
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2017, 11:53:42 pm »
I've encountered some new data which can shed a bit more light on this.

In some cases it may be possible for you to get fewer terrorist units on a higher difficulty! There's a limited number of spawn points on the maps, and that number is variable and often way too small. It's all too common for all of the spawn points to fill up and for the rest of the aliens to not even spawn at all. On higher difficulties where you get more non-terrorist units, they can crowd out the terrorists by filling up the limited spawn points. I had a terror site on genius difficulty which had only ten spawn points, it didn't have any terrorists.

With the reduced numbers of sectoids on beginner difficulty, your average number of cyberdiscs may actually be higher than on superhuman. You're supposed to get 6-10 cyberdiscs on superhuman (if I'm reading the ruleset correctly), but I don't think I've ever seen more than 6 on any difficulty. However Warboy1982 added a force-spawn measure to Superhuman difficulty for OXC. I was toying with generating terror missions on superhuman and once I got 14+ cyberdiscs piled on top of each other all in one spot. (This was done with a special race of cyberdiscs.)

Probably the best solution is to put more spawn points on the map, but that's a thing that'll have to be left to the modders. I thought you guys might want to know that.

Offline NKF

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Re: Rebalanced?
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2017, 06:54:18 am »
On a somewhat related bit of trivia regarding spawn points, it was quite possible to abuse the spawn point limitations in the original game to create bases that could never by destroyed by simply hogging all the spawn points. Since the aliens cannot populate the map you end winning the base attack by default.

It is done by building an extremely minimalist base and then cramming it full of soldiers. Like a clown car. ;)

I haven't attempted to try this in OpenXcom, so hopefully it has been address to some extent. 
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 06:56:59 am by NKF »

Offline 7Saturn

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Re: Rebalanced?
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2017, 09:06:37 am »
Just out of curiosity: One unit living quarters + 50 soldiers, or where was the number limit?

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

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Re: Rebalanced?
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2017, 11:33:22 am »
You couldn't actually crowd out all spawn points because you and the aliens have different spawn points for the most part. What you can do (and OXC preserves this) is have no hangars, and the aliens can only spawn in the access lift or sometimes in certain other facilities for some reason. So a base with an access lift, general stores, and living quarters only can be very easy to defend. You kill the 5 or so aliens in the access lift and you're done.