Author Topic: Modding soldier experience, specifically firing accuracy  (Read 3024 times)

Offline mrgarrettscott

  • Squaddie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Modding soldier experience, specifically firing accuracy
« on: August 02, 2017, 03:40:49 am »
In order to improve in this vital stat, a soldier must connect on attempted shot for it to count as an action.  In order to maximize the potential improvement for a soldier in FA, you need to 11 actions, e.g., 11 hits. As evidenced by FA training methods detailed here, this is hardly practical, requiring waiting until PSI is available.

I would like mod how FA is improved. The only requirement to earn an action is to target and fire at an alien. You get one action per attempt regardless of the weapon's fire mode, preventing auto fire abuse.  If you hit your target, you earn two actions instead of one. This similar to the way PSI skill is built. It also just makes sense. The shooting AND failing should always lead to some improvement. Perhaps there could be a cap on improvement regardless of actions if the soldier failed to land a hit an entire mission.

Is this possible to do in a RUL file? What thoughts do you have on how it might affect the game balance?

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 7143
  • OXCE developer
    • View Profile
    • My Wiki
Re: Modding soldier experience, specifically firing accuracy
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2017, 08:55:35 am »
It's not possible.

It would be also EXTREMELY abusable... and in contrary to your opinion, in my (and many others) opinion makes absolutely no sense, gamewise.
When I extended experience system in OXCE+, I specifically added one basic condition... shot must hit... otherwise no experience.

Other than that a lot is configurable via ruleset and via scripts in OXCE+. E.g. which skill(s) to train when and by how much.
In vanilla OpenXcom, nothing related to experience gain is configurable, everything is hardcoded according to quoted ufopedia rules.

Offline 7Saturn

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 457
    • View Profile
Re: Modding soldier experience, specifically firing accuracy
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2017, 09:29:46 am »
One must also keep in mind, that this may still depend a lot on random numbers but on the other hand, it still follows an exponential curve regarding how fast the soldier gets better or how fast it gets unlikely to not hit. (As the better your soldiers get, the faster they get even more well.) Especially when using modded weapons like the sniper rifle (160% acc. on aimed) you can speed up the process even more to the point where even your bad soldiers have acc 100+ within 10-20 missions with that weapon. Some are already on 100%+ right from the start (160 acc. & 63 is enough) .So in principle, the game is rather well balanced on that one. In fact, if you look at the stats of you opponents, you begin to realize, that you are already well above their skills right from the beginning (with many soldiers that is, not all). The only real advantage in the beginning are their armours and better aiming weapons. To compensate a bit for this, there's the sniper rifle mod. =)

Offline mrgarrettscott

  • Squaddie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Modding soldier experience, specifically firing accuracy
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2017, 08:13:35 pm »
It's not possible.

It would be also EXTREMELY abusable... and in contrary to your opinion, in my (and many others) opinion makes absolutely no sense, gamewise.
When I extended experience system in OXCE+, I specifically added one basic condition... shot must hit... otherwise no experience...

Thank you for answering that it is not moddable from a RUL file

First, I agree it would be abusable without proper controls.

Second, allow me to offer why I think it makes sense from a game perspective. Part of a soldier's survivability is his ability to kill the aliens he sees and that is directly related to firing accuracy.  The problem is firing accuracy is can only be improved when a successful hit is scored.  When a firing accuracy is low it only increases the challenge of improvement. Perhaps it is is the actions system, requiring many actions (hits) to maximizing potential growth. If, for example, a soldier took two shots and made one, he can earn one point of improvement maximum.  If he made both of those shots, the maximum improvement is one point for two successful actions. Contrast that with PSI which awards an action point for an attempt and three action points for a successful PSI attack.

Third, I go refer you to to the extreme 'training' methods used to improve firing accuracy once the player has access to PSI. Mind controlling aliens is fun. Shooting a high hit-point alien 11 times with a pistol/laser pistol to maximize firing accuracy is necessary evil and exposes the flaws in the system.

Finally, in OXCE+ I would encourage you to consider removing the shot must hit mandate if experience for firing accuracy works the same as in vanilla.  I believe I have offered you a well-considered response unless there is some information I am unaware of.

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 7143
  • OXCE developer
    • View Profile
    • My Wiki
Re: Modding soldier experience, specifically firing accuracy
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2017, 10:17:26 pm »
The hit was mandatory for firing accuracy in vanilla already.
I just made sure it applies to everything... e.g. also to throwing accuracy.
Btw. only a hit is required, no need to do any damage.

Psi is no different, it's just not possible to miss with a psi attack.

This mechanic is the corest of the core... xcom would not be xcom without it... I just can't do this without betraying everything I believe in. Sorry.

If there is a problem with training rookies, there are solutions to make training easier for you:

1. OXCE+ offers a training base facility, where firing accuracy can be trained, among many other things. It's also configurable how quickly and until what limit. Easy and convenient.

2. Or, as the game progresses, you could start hiring rookies with better starting accuracy. That is easily moddable too.



EDIT: let me give you an example what would happen if I allowed experience gain from shots in the air:
- find an alien base
- build your base next to it
- hire a craft, max number of rookies and pistols for everyone
- go to the alien base, fire 11 times (or even less, just repeat more times) into the air in the first turn
- abort mission, gain experience
- repeat from the beginning until everyone is fully trained with no risk

This way you could train absolute rookies into superstars in a matter of several game hours... how should I allow that with a clear conscience?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 10:41:53 pm by Meridian »

Offline yrizoud

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1018
    • View Profile
Re: Modding soldier experience, specifically firing accuracy
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2017, 02:37:03 am »
I'm sure mrgarrettscott didn't intend to reward the case where you force-fire a schrubbery (or a teammate)... At least this shows that it's not easy to plan for all the game situations.
Despite my own critics on XCOM's normal XP system, I also think there's nothing to do outside of a specific source-based mod which would perform all the changes that its designer wants, and fixes all the consequences.

Offline mrgarrettscott

  • Squaddie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Modding soldier experience, specifically firing accuracy
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2017, 11:28:28 pm »

EDIT: let me give you an example what would happen if I allowed experience gain from shots in the air:
- find an alien base
- build your base next to it
- hire a craft, max number of rookies and pistols for everyone
- go to the alien base, fire 11 times (or even less, just repeat more times) into the air in the first turn
- abort mission, gain experience
- repeat from the beginning until everyone is fully trained with no risk

This way you could train absolute rookies into superstars in a matter of several game hours... how should I allow that with a clear conscience?

I wanted reply directly this.  This is obviously not about shots in the air.  You would actually have to target an alien.  If you could just do shots in the air, why bother with risk of an alien base? Do it on the first ground assault of the game!

The fact that you have created a way to soldiers to train basic stats away from combat is an acknowledgment the system is flawed. I firmly believe if what I initially requested could be modded via a RUL, someone would have already done it instead of just waiting for PSI and creating a Muton firing squad via Laser Pistol Gifts.