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Author Topic: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.52)  (Read 486616 times)

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1905 on: August 22, 2022, 01:16:06 pm »
I just noticed something intuitively strange yet understandable from the engine perspective. If you capture a live Paladin of Church, i.e. wearing equivalent to plastic aqua armor, you don't get to strip him and get the armor. You will need to go to the alien containment and kill him, and they you get a damaged armor, which you can repair. I didn't check what happens if you sell a live paladin, i.e. whether you get a damaged armor then as well, or nothing.

Likely this stems from OXC(E) engine limitations related to the specific properties of armor (not items in battlescape). I wonder if it is realistic for the engine to change, but I wonder if there are ways to get around this? Is it possible for live capture to generate an intact armor (in addition to the traditional items the live alien had)?

Offline Nord

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1906 on: August 24, 2022, 08:43:00 pm »
I just noticed something intuitively strange yet understandable from the engine perspective...
This was intended. But now i can not remember why. Maybe i should add another manufacture project.

Offline zee_ra

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.50)
« Reply #1907 on: August 28, 2022, 08:04:29 am »
two in a row

What constitutes bad economy?  Is this a negative balance, a negative total income (including sales), or a negative funding balance (that is, total funding minus total expenses)?

Offline R1dO

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1908 on: August 28, 2022, 02:01:22 pm »
It is having a negative balance, at the very start of the month, exceeding some debt threshold (which can be set by a mod).

For both UFO and TFTD this threshold is a debt of 1 million.

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1909 on: August 28, 2022, 04:58:57 pm »
The latest TWoTS on OXCE 7.7 crashed when starting the very large UFO wreck discovery (the one with tentaculats) with error "OpenXcom has crashed: Map generator encountered an error: no alien units could be placed on the map." I could not reproduce the problem after restoring from a save; the battlescape is different each time I try to get there (save scumming is disabled, but I have to do some tricks by circling around a few alien bases to get there, I wonder if this results in different random generation).

This is likely at least in part an OXCE issue, but because I can't produce a save where this could be reliably reproduced, I'm not sure if anything can be done to fix it.

[28-08-2022_16-34-26]   [FATAL] A fatal error has occurred: Map generator encountered an error: no alien units could be placed on the map.
[28-08-2022_16-34-26]   [FATAL] ./OpenXcomEx(OpenXcom::CrossPlatform::stackTrace(void*)+0x36) [0x561b87a6c0e6]
[28-08-2022_16-34-26]   [FATAL] ./OpenXcomEx(OpenXcom::CrossPlatform::crashDump(void*, std::__cxx11::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> > const&)+0x477) [0x561b87a6cc87]
[28-08-2022_16-34-26]   [FATAL] ./OpenXcomEx(exceptionLogger()+0x75) [0x561b878735a5]
[28-08-2022_16-34-26]   [FATAL] /lib64/libstdc++.so.6(+0x9653c) [0x7ff39de2553c]
[28-08-2022_16-34-26]   [FATAL] /lib64/libstdc++.so.6(+0x96597) [0x7ff39de25597]
[28-08-2022_16-34-26]   [FATAL] /lib64/libstdc++.so.6(+0x967f8) [0x7ff39de257f8]
[28-08-2022_16-34-26]   [FATAL] ./OpenXcomEx(OpenXcom::BattlescapeGenerator::run()+0x879) [0x561b879b21e9]
[28-08-2022_16-34-26]   [FATAL] ./OpenXcomEx(OpenXcom::ConfirmLandingState::btnYesClick(OpenXcom::Action*)+0x2c2) [0x561b87b8fa22]
[28-08-2022_16-34-26]   [FATAL] ./OpenXcomEx(OpenXcom::InteractiveSurface::handle(OpenXcom::Action*, OpenXcom::State*)+0x15a) [0x561b87a90c9a]
[28-08-2022_16-34-26]   [FATAL] ./OpenXcomEx(OpenXcom::State::handle(OpenXcom::Action*)+0x73) [0x561b87b67083]
[28-08-2022_16-34-26]   [FATAL] ./OpenXcomEx(OpenXcom::Game::run()+0x347) [0x561b87a8cc27]

Online Meridian

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1910 on: August 28, 2022, 05:03:08 pm »
I wonder if this results in different random generation).

Yes, geoscape RNG affects battlescape RNG.

This is likely at least in part an OXCE issue, but

More unlikely than likely, but possible.

A save just before the mission could still help.

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1911 on: August 28, 2022, 05:13:50 pm »
Yes, geoscape RNG affects battlescape RNG.

More unlikely than likely, but possible.

A save just before the mission could still help.

Here you go. "Crash" is just before the battle (after restoring from an earlier save, and noticing I couldn't reproduce the problem). "New" is the original save before the crash, an hour or so after the mission spawned. In the crash, I used Poseidon from US base to get to the site by delaying using cormorant and triton. But I suspect it's impossible to reproduce the same battlescape RNG through geoscape..

Online Meridian

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1912 on: August 28, 2022, 06:10:34 pm »
I have reproduced after a few reloads.

It's a classic map script issue.

Code: [Select]
  - type: SCOUT_CRASH
    commands:
    - type: addCraft
    - type: addBlock
#      groups: 4
      blocks: 0
    - type: fillArea

Map is only 60x40, UFO is 30x30, craft is 20x10.

If the craft spawns in the middle of the map, there is no more place to spawn a UFO... which will eventually lead to no free spawn nodes and no aliens deployed.

Change the map script to spawn the UFO first, or increase the map size.

PS: attaching a save before the mission; and also a save with the invalid map generated

Offline Nord

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1913 on: August 29, 2022, 08:14:55 am »
I have reproduced after a few reloads.

It's a classic map script issue.

Code: [Select]
  - type: SCOUT_CRASH
    commands:
    - type: addCraft
    - type: addBlock
#      groups: 4
      blocks: 0
    - type: fillArea

Map is only 60x40, UFO is 30x30, craft is 20x10.

If the craft spawns in the middle of the map, there is no more place to spawn a UFO... which will eventually lead to no free spawn nodes and no aliens deployed.

Change the map script to spawn the UFO first, or increase the map size.

PS: attaching a save before the mission; and also a save with the invalid map generated
Oh, thanks. Will fix.

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1914 on: August 29, 2022, 08:27:46 am »
Still wondering about the right balance of prerequisites wrt. shard guns, gauss tech and sonic weapons. Shard guns require a commander (incl. naga lord) so you essentially need to do a very large ship to get it. Gauss requires a navigator, which you might get from a large or very large ufo. Sonic requires alien implants (and some delay because you need the bionic lab), which you get from a very large ufo. It seems you get these very close together; now researching sonic in October and I just obtained gauss and shard a month or so ago. While these are not mutually exclusive (I especially like gauss sniper rifles), would it make sense to space them out a bit more. For example, make the relatively weak shard weapons available upon researching a squad leader or a paladin? It would make sense that upon interrogating someone using the weapons you would learn how to use them because shard guns don't require a biological connection.

Another balancing thing I noticed that I have only obtained one (1) M.C. reader in the game so far in October. Or maybe some of them were destroyed in gas cannon HE/ZR explosions. I think these should come up more frequently, to make it easier to identify which aliens you need to capture.

After watching EvilBL's SH/Ironman videos (success in the 12th attempt!), I retried my campaign (with saves).

This time I have focused on getting prerequisites right. I got Gauss weapons in June, because I got lucky with aquatoid medium ship (aquatoids also attacked a military base that month and I got an extra navigator there); earlier there also was an aquatoid ship terror mission, but I had to abort that as being way too difficult. So I suppose, based on typical RNG, you get gauss first and rather early (except if RNG screws you and you get gillmen and nagas only).

I got an aquatoid base attack and from there a commander in September. There was also a naga very large ship in September. This allowed access to the very underwhelming shart weapons (unless you want to use them to punch the armor).

Access to sonic tech had been delayed by the lack of examination room -> advanced bionics -> BIOLAB facility. I just got examination room (from the very large UFO?); I don't think I got this earlier from two alien artifact sites or other medium/large ships I had done. So, after BIOLAB is built, getting sonic in October.

So, with luck and focus on obtaining a navigator early, you can get gauss way earlier than sonic. My earlier comment about shard weapons still holds; they're essentially useless by the time you get them (they would be far more interesting if you got them about the same time as gauss, or even earlier). I wonder if the prerequisites of that could be toned down a bit (researching a medic and a squad leader, rather than a commander, perhaps?).

This time around there was a relatively early charcharodon + bio-drone assualt on military base, so plenty of access to bio-drones. This time I also had obtained a couple of M.C. readers elsewhere and I think I got a couple of more from the aliens assaulting my base.

Military base assaults and city terror missions are really nice and progress the early game research considerably, because you can use stun grenades to capture live aliens. At that point in the early game, your only real underwater option are harpoons with stun clips (fine with aquatoids but tricky or very challenging otherwise). You usually will be able to get stun rods a bit later and melee is always a bit of gamble on whether you get the alien you want inside the ship or not.

Offline februarius40

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1915 on: September 14, 2022, 07:55:48 pm »
Good day,

Many thanks for this great mod, accidentally discovered it thanks to YT algorithm.

I have a question regarding OXCE setup for this mod. Does this mod come with some preset settings?
So after installing I go straight in with the default setup? If not, any recommendation which options to toggle on/off, to get the best out of the mod.

edit: Do I need to put it on top of the mods list, or the default OXCE mods should have priority?

Thank you.

BR
Feb
« Last Edit: September 14, 2022, 08:16:55 pm by februarius40 »

Online Meridian

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1916 on: September 14, 2022, 08:56:42 pm »
1/ I have a question regarding OXCE setup for this mod. Does this mod come with some preset settings?

2/ So after installing I go straight in with the default setup?

3/ Do I need to put it on top of the mods list, or the default OXCE mods should have priority?

Hi Feb,

1/ yes, there's about a dozen of preset settings

2/ yes... you can always change your mind later and make some tweaks

3/ doesn't matter too much, because most default mods are either incompatible or don't do anything in combination with this mod... but to be on the safe side, put this mod at the top of the list and other mods below it

Cheers,
M.

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1917 on: September 14, 2022, 09:19:56 pm »
In a large UFO (with aquatoids, I suppose this could happen with other races with 2x2 terror units), a hallucinoid might end up being generated stuck in a room from where it can't get out. I think I have seen the same in some YT videos (maybe even Meridian's?). I think there have been some similar occurrences in other maps. I wonder if this is something that can be avoided by mod design or the engine (I suppose not)?

Also, is it intentional that you get a sight out of Poseidon at certain angles even before opening a door? Some windows, maybe?

Offline Nord

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1918 on: September 15, 2022, 11:23:23 am »
I'll check.

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1919 on: September 26, 2022, 09:20:02 pm »
Why does a knife have strength and skill bonus, but vibro knife does not? I understand the armor effectiveness of 150 % of regular knife, but shouldn't at least the strength bonus exist for vibro knife as well (if it should exist at all).
QoL fixes reversed these, but I'm not sure if strength bonus makes vibro knife overpowered or not. (How the damage including the bonuses is calculated, btw?)