aliens

Author Topic: [MOD] Arching Weapons use Throw & Demo Charges train Bravery <UPDATE 2>  (Read 4290 times)

Offline Bacon_Hero

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 59
  • Why can't I quit you X-Com UFO D
    • View Profile
I find it kind of weird that grenade launchers and mortars use the skill Firing instead of Throwing. I think direct fire weapons should generally use Firing while indirect fire weapons should generally use Throwing.

If you ever felt the same about these weapons but can't be arsed to change it then use this. Enjoy!

UPDATE 2

Throwing Skills:

-Grenade Launchers, Flamethrowers (including LR, Heavy & Mega), Mortar, Assault Grenade Launchers, Blizzard MLRS, Tornado Mortar, Shoulder Launcher and Small Launchers now depends on THROWING instead of FIRING skills
-Hitting enemies with these weapons will train THROWING

Kneel Bonus:
- Assault Grenade Launcher, Tornado Mortar, Blizzard MLRS now get a bigger bonus from kneeling

Less accurate when tired (Heavy lobbing weapons become harder to use when your girls are low on energy):
- Assault Grenade Launcher, Mortar, Tornado Mortar now suffer reduced accuracy when tired

Energy Costs (Heavy lobbing weapons cost energy to use):
- Assault Grenade Launcher, Mortar, Tornado Mortar

Bravery Training:
- Crate of Violence, Dynamite, HE, Acid Flask, Demo Charge and Nuke Charge, Barrel Bombs, Satchel Charge and Fire Bombs now increase Bravery if you successfully hit enemy unit(s) in the blast!

Minor Changes:
- CAWS now suffer HUGE 1-handed penalties. The base accuracy was very high and allowed CAWS to be used while holding something and still be extremely crazy accurate.
- Electric Lasso TU and Energy Costs Reduced
« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 11:33:02 am by Bacon_Hero »

Online Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 7013
  • OXCE developer
    • View Profile
    • My Wiki
Re: ["MOD"] Lobbers use Throwing
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2017, 01:57:20 pm »
You should not rewrite piratez files.
Your mod will not be compatible with any future piratez release and even worse will make piratez not work properly!!

Please create a proper mod with your own ruleset files, which can be used also in the future...

Offline Bacon_Hero

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 59
  • Why can't I quit you X-Com UFO D
    • View Profile
Re: ["MOD"] Lobbers use Throwing
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2017, 03:05:16 pm »
Ok sorry, I couldn't get my own mod to work without crashing (I'm new at this). Also, there were some errors in my modified .rul

I'll put up a replacement once I figure out how to get my own separate mod working.

Offline Bacon_Hero

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 59
  • Why can't I quit you X-Com UFO D
    • View Profile
Re: ["MOD"] Lobbers use Throwing
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2017, 04:24:02 pm »
I finally got it working.

The problem was I copypastaed the whole entry for the items I wanted to change when I should have only added in the lines I wanted to change.

I also made further changes since I had to rush off to work before I could test my previous hack. It made several things unintentionally strong (such as the mortar with 888% accuracy  :P )


-Mortar Accuracy now based off throwing skill AND your Energy levels. The more tired you are the less accurately you'll shoot! If you go down to 0% energy you might find yourself with a negative accuracy score!

-Flamethrowers including LR, Heavy and Mega benefit much less from bravery

Ok... so here it is, enjoy!

« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 04:23:23 pm by Bacon_Hero »

Online Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 7013
  • OXCE developer
    • View Profile
    • My Wiki
Re: ["MOD"] Lobbers use Throwing
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2017, 10:46:27 am »
Thanks.

Offline Dioxine

  • Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 5276
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
    • Email
Re: ["MOD"] Lobbers use Throwing
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2017, 05:20:57 pm »
I do not like the idea that throwing skill, which commands bows and javelins, would be used for mortars and GLs...

As for flamethrowers, the skill used is irrelevant (tiny accuracy anyway) but I got them to train Firing so they're somewhat useful for training. Otoh making them train Bravery might make them a bit OP...

Making Mortar use Energy is interesting but largery irrelevant, as the shooter sits on her ass anyway.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 05:22:31 pm by Dioxine »

Offline legionof1

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1841
  • Bullets go that way. Money comes this way.
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ["MOD"] Lobbers use Throwing
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2017, 02:59:40 am »
I personally wouldn't mind a weapon training bravery. If your playing well opportunities to train bravery(ie patching wounds) are pretty sparse and the limitations(limited pilot slots and lowish stat cap) on piloting gains don't really allow bravery to grow much beyond "not panic at the drop of a hat" without gaming the system.

You get to 60-70 quickly pretty quickly from morale fluctuations but growth pretty much vanishes after that. I personally average 0-2 wounded gals per mission, and considering you need to mend several wounds to get an advance in skill it's about one raise in bravery per 4 missions. Or about one increase a month divided across the 40 some gals in the combat rotation. Getting to 80 bravery across the pool would take about 6.5 game years assuming nobody died. But they do so progress but for a lucky few is pretty much frozen at 60-70.

Being able to hit 80 reliably with out gaming the system would be nice.

Offline jungybrogan

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ["MOD"] Lobbers use Throwing
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2017, 08:38:40 am »
Thanks for the mod.

I agree, there should be more ways to train bavery besides gaming the system.  Also, I appreciate more items using throwing, so it has more use over the length of an entire campaign.

Offline Bacon_Hero

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 59
  • Why can't I quit you X-Com UFO D
    • View Profile
Re: ["MOD"] Lobbers use Throwing
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2017, 10:32:27 am »
Also, I appreciate more items using throwing, so it has more use over the length of an entire campaign.

Yeah, I noticed that there is a long period inbetween aqua arrows and neon bows or discs where your archers become useless. Especially when the mercenaries come around. Fartbag ammo is extremely rare, and by the time you get mercenary contact to buy fartbags the cost of celetid essence is $500,000 for 10 jars not including extraction time and runt wages, dozens of missions would have passed where your archers were either missing with expensive laser weapons or doing no damage with their bows.


I personally wouldn't mind a weapon training bravery. If your playing well opportunities to train bravery(ie patching wounds) are pretty sparse and the limitations(limited pilot slots and lowish stat cap) on piloting gains don't really allow bravery to grow much beyond "not panic at the drop of a hat" without gaming the system.

Hmm... too bad there isn't a "train throwing and bravery" option. It's only train "bravery or reaction". But it'll be interesting to have bravery trained by using highly risky ordinances. Maybe things like giant stationary bombs? Crate of Violence, HE etc... that MUST hit enemy units? To offset abuse throw accuracy should be substantially decreased or something. I might make a mod for this in the future  :P

I do not like the idea that throwing skill, which commands bows and javelins, would be used for mortars and GLs...

Bows and javs are really early game and late game weapons... there's nothing in the middle that's consistent and easily replenished. Also lobbing grenades and mortars I feel doesn't use the same skill set as firing a rifle. The brain has to think differently about how to place a shot with a mortar rather than a bullet.

As for flamethrowers, the skill used is irrelevant (tiny accuracy anyway) but I got them to train Firing so they're somewhat useful for training. Otoh making them train Bravery might make them a bit OP...

I don't believe my changes train bravery - but I should make these weapons train "throwing"  :P
Also, I only made flamethrowers use "throwing" because there's "throw" in the name  ;D ;D ;D

Making Mortar use Energy is interesting but largery irrelevant, as the shooter sits on her ass anyway.

You've never had to run from lobstermen or zombies then  :P but it's conceptual, it reinforces the idea that the mortar is a stationary weapon. I might make it use up energy in my next release.


To further my idea, I'm thinking about using my energy % concept to wipe out bonuses for meless weapons. Right now with a vibro-ax and synthmussle suit my girls can do about 150 damage with all bonuses added in. That's a crit range of up to 300 damage for 14 time units!!!!

So I'm thinking of releasing a mod in the future that reduces melee weapon bonus damage based on how tired a girl is. The vibro-ax for example has about a 100% bonus to melee damage, therefore I might make it so that a girl with 0 energy would hypothetically deal -50% gross damage. While a melee weapon with a smaller bonus would be reduced less. I'd have to come up with a number for each weapon that won't penalize new girls too much or make melee useless in early game while also reducing super-sized gals damage output when they have like 10% energy left...

Anyway, that's all in the future. My next release will feature:
-more uses of throwing in more lobbing type weapons (such as the AGL and MLRS).
-Massively increased CAWs 1-handed penalty (My best shooters can hold a cattleprod in 1 hand and CAW in the other and still have over 100% accuracy with both!).
-Mortar uses up energy.
-experienceTrainingMode changes for all modified lobbing weapons

 ;D ;D ;D


I've released Update 2, please find file on the first post
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 04:24:03 pm by Bacon_Hero »

Offline Ethereal_Medic

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 940
  • Pet Lokk'Nar 9,99 $/hour
    • View Profile
Re: ["MOD"] Lobbers use Throwing
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2017, 02:24:02 pm »
Being able to hit 80 reliably with out gaming the system would be nice.

Training Bravery using "Nude-Armor" in 0-risk missions is not an option?

Offline Dioxine

  • Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 5276
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
    • Email
Re: [MOD] Lobbers use Throwing & other rebalances UPDATE 2
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2017, 04:30:45 pm »
Bravery is easy to train over 70 by healing enemies.

Offline legionof1

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1841
  • Bullets go that way. Money comes this way.
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ["MOD"] Lobbers use Throwing
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2017, 07:14:41 pm »
Training Bravery using "Nude-Armor" in 0-risk missions is not an option?

Not really, at 60 bravery the stress decay is insufficient to reliably trigger a panic test. The test occurs at below 50. At 70 bravery it is simply impossible to trigger via combat stress. Stress will only occur if morale is above bravery. Now you could intentionally setup a chain panic situation but that is both gamey and risks the useful gals going wibbly turning the "0-risk" into friendly fire hour.

Bravery is easy to train over 70 by healing enemies.
Not something i find i usually have opportunities to do. Being outnumbered virtually the entire game, and largely outclassed, has made my play-style very "no kill like overkill".

Either im "safe" stunning something cause losing captives to overstun is annoying, which means no wounds and as little hp dmg as i can, or obliterate with everything i can muster. The middle ground of injured foes just is not a thing anymore. Anything with any chance to harm the gals is be met with the ferocity of mother bear on meth and pcp.

Offline karadoc

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 208
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [MOD] Lobbers use Throwing & other rebalances UPDATE 2
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2017, 01:19:36 am »
I haven't had a problem with bravery training.

I carry bandages on every gal for every mission. If I'm explicitly trying to train a particular gal, I give her a first-aid kit (or the nurse outfit). Here are some of the things I do to get wounds to heal.
  • Early game: Use low-powered weapons in low risk situations. You'll get lots of wounded enemies even when you aren't trying to keep them alive.
  • Mid game: blowdarts are an excellent way to knock out enemies and cause wounds. You aren't 100% guaranteed to not kill them, but it's pretty reliable. I equip a blowpipe on every gal for every mission up until the late game. I don't actually use them on every mission, but they are small and light weight and they can come in handy in clutch situations.
  • Mid game: knock enemies out with the rum bottle. It does very little damage, and causes wounds. The rum is only used up if you drink it. Using it as a weapon does not deplete it.
  • Late game: wand of rending causes heaps of wounds... this opens up heaps of room for bravery training bordering on cheesiness. (And it's easy to cross this border and travel quite deep into the realm of mega-cheese.


As for the actual topic of this thread: The first couple of times I saw the thread I wondered "why would lobster-men use throwing weapons?" ...      I get it now. I don't really have a strong opinion about mortars and such though. I almost never use those weapons.

Offline legionof1

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1841
  • Bullets go that way. Money comes this way.
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: [MOD] Lobbers use Throwing & other rebalances UPDATE 2
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2017, 05:49:38 am »
You do bring up valid methods of generating the needed wounds karadoc, but the fact that one has to go specifically out of the way to train the stat when everything else is grab n' go is mildly annoying to me. There is more then sufficient things to fiddle around with in terms of gearing without having to setup a multi step training subplan for one stat on top of everything else. The gearing handling is already creaking under the load even with the template functions available.

But this is my opinion coming from a exceeding limited time to invest playing. Spending an extra few minutes to account for bravery unique status on every mission adds up, and in my view is unnecessary. Having a subset of weapons, even a very small one, train such a valuable stat, encourages load-out diversity while not getting in the way of the meat of the tactical game.

My opinion but nuff about me and my bravery tangent.   

Offline Bacon_Hero

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 59
  • Why can't I quit you X-Com UFO D
    • View Profile
Re: [MOD] Lobbers use Throwing & other rebalances UPDATE 2
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2017, 11:32:03 am »
As for the actual topic of this thread: The first couple of times I saw the thread I wondered "why would lobster-men use throwing weapons?" ...      I get it now. I don't really have a strong opinion about mortars and such though. I almost never use those weapons.

Hmm you're right, maybe I should change the title of this thread.

As for mortars, they're really fun. I brought one to try it out and now I never leave home without it (unless in an underground mission). It's slightly on the overpowered side for fire support.

Your mortar girl will be near the ship the entire mission - you can give her a grav harness and put her on the roof of your craft (when she needs more ammo just go back in and pick it up). Here's what happens... your scout girl or parrot goes out - spots an enemy - calls for fire support - BAM dead enemies!

I'm testing bravery training with demo charge type weapons in my mod now - basically when there's a blood ritual or something I equip my girls with grav harnesses and drop HE Charges on werewolves. It makes bravery training a lot less of a pain in the ass - a lot simpler.



But this is my opinion coming from a exceeding limited time to invest playing. Spending an extra few minutes to account for bravery unique status on every mission adds up, and in my view is unnecessary. Having a subset of weapons, even a very small one, train such a valuable stat, encourages load-out diversity while not getting in the way of the meat of the tactical game.

I feel the same way as the game goes later - base management trying to juggle so many different components, items, prisoners, research, slaves or rob, manufacturing, training is taking a lot of time. I have to write everything on a piece of paper every few missions to transfer things from base to base. It becomes a bit of a bureaucratic grind as the game goes on. It was a problem present in UFO Defense but the number of items in this game grows the problem exponentially.

Not to mention missions where you have to spend like 15 minutes looking for the last 2 enemies at night but you have to becareful because they're armed with heavy gauss. Most missions - since I found like 400+ hellerium grenades before I unlocked them - I just blast everything open from turn 1 onwards. Make holes everywhere.