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Author Topic: Looking for some base management advice  (Read 22356 times)

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2017, 09:36:50 pm »
I did a recent update of the Function Table adding in the Mess hall etc here:
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Facilities_(Piratez)#Function_Table

Offline RSSwizard

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2017, 10:20:25 pm »
Hey everyone, I was hoping to get some tips on base management.

In vanilla I do everything in my first base, all the research, all the manufacturing, etc etc. I set up additional bases as Storage Facilities to hold all the crap that ive got piling up, whether its alien alloys or e115. And I make them double as radar outposts too.

In piratez I was forced to make a second and a third base for manufacturing. My secondary has an industrial printer. My third has a factory.

My first one doesnt have anything special but since its the place I launch attacks from I need on-demand manufacturing without a shipping delay. Also since its my research facility due to the unmovable Laboratory I need my prisoners there too, so thats the only place ive got a prison (I eventually built a second prison cells building due to wanting to capitalize on slaves).

In piratez I was forced to upgrade my storage facility bases with a few extractors and about 30-50 runts each. And all they do is mine Hellerium. Because late game you're going to need at least 25,000 Hellerium racked up and probably more in order to have constructed the 500+ Hellerium Fuel Cells necessary to build the endgame ship (I say more because it probably needs extra hellerium to boot, and also because hovertanks require fuel cells to build and they're worth it).

Usually bases like these are stocked full of Power Stations so that they make money for me just sitting there, but since ive got runts mining hellerium and making no money on their own it offsets it.

Note: if you have alot of Hands you need to either get them killed off in suicidal charges (blaze of glory as it were) or just sack them, a few revisions ago salary bonuses were instituted for hands and the ability to demote their rank was removed (from the engine itself).

TL/DR the higher their rank the more they're draining your pocket dry arbitrarily. Keep your number of hands Low and kill off the senior officers so that way they don't start charging you like 100,000 or 400,000 per month.

You should never have more than about 15 hands at the primary base, and no more than 3 at radar outposts (supplement their combat ability with tanks, and base construction with those fire pit structures). If you dont keep them under thumb they'll bleed your operation dry, the brainers already eat up too much as it stands.

(in my personal modded version I got rid of most of the salary increases, they just go up to about +40K per month tops. Plus I made brainers cost 25K salary like vanilla)

BTW, battletank m1 has the same $/hr as m1a if you buy the plastasteel, so there's no need to fuss around with buying stuff.

Why buy plastasteel when you can make it?

My secondary base has the printer and the mint. Just about all they do there is either counterfietting chips, or doing Scrap Metal + Chems = Plastasteel.

Then they ship the plastasteel to the base where the factory is, and it gets used to manufacture the battle tanks.

Otherwise I typically have a big surplus of it flowing in from attacks, it often makes me have to ship it away from my primary base, so fabricating plastasteel in addition to that - the Battle Tank manufacturing gives me somewhere to invest that plastasteel into without simply selling it (though I realized that Boom Gun ammo is also rather profitable to put it into also).

And where do you plaece your bases? Any hints for "minimum bases to maximum land coverage without gaps"?

Pictures related. Though ive got 7 bases, two of them are bargain basement and dont have hangars. My first base was setup smack dab in the middle of Europe.

Also I HIGHLY encourage you to do the following things for game start:

* Sell your standard radar so you fly blind for the first few months. You'll be able to advance well enough from popped missions anyway. Even though you could follow ships to landing spots its rare that any of them land, so its no benefit to you to track ships until you can shoot them down. That starting radar system will give you I think ~300,000 bucks to work with at the earliest part of the game where it is dreadfully needed.

* Temple maps are money hauls, even into the start of late game. If you club/harpoon everybody like you're supposed to - you can net probably 500-700K per mission, but you're going to make less than that because you're going to want to interrogate as many of them as possible until their tech options dry up. That's how in early 2604 I ran out of data disk topics. NEVER KILL SHARP GUYS, they're 40k and barely armed.

* Reticulan Plasma Charger is the best starting aircraft gun, you can shoot down civilian traffic without blowing it up (ive only seen this happen once maybe?). You go in and club/harpoon civilians and ransom them, especially Sharp Guys. Later on Charger Laser is ideal but its harder to get to than it used to be. Gauss Cannons are the serious anti-ship weapon and you can get those long (long) before you're able to actually use gauss on the ground.

* Dont build radar AT ALL (anywhere) until you have Overcharged radar, and even then only at your primary attacking base. Between Missions and whatever crosses that radar that you can chase it will "do well enough" because of its wide spread. The radar that the "outpost" facility has is pitiful but if you have a craft at those radar bases it still allows you to go right after someone vulnerable who gets too close, I could care less whether it had radar or not, I just like that it has lodging and space to provide base assault defense without me having to make a barracks and vaults.

* rush Hyper Wave Decoder tech, and feel free to build THOSE in all your bases. Thats why you dont want to waste money outfitting bases with dedicated radar systems, its money that will be tied up until you eventually sell them because you got your HWD up and running (early game, first year, you do not want money tied up in things, Power Stations are the only exception id make). And I got mine going rather early into midgame, I forget when but I had HWDs in 2602 without a problem.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 10:49:25 pm by RSSwizard »

Offline arbee81

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2017, 10:20:56 pm »
First thing I did last night was transfer some good gals to my production base, made a few slave soldiers and bought bombs for them and got some attack dogs.  Good thing too, because not a day later a spartan crackdown ship starts looking for that base. They would have decimated that base before, now it has a fighting chance.

Thanks for the tips, Scorrpio. Much of that is still unavailable to me, but it's helpful to know how others approach these problems. Having the main strike team separate from the main base just seems... wrong somehow, but I see the logic. Main base is already getting cramped and I know I have a long way to go

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Offline RSSwizard

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2017, 11:02:17 pm »
Having the main strike team separate from the main base just seems... wrong somehow, but I see the logic.

It means you're going to have to do ALOT of shipping, of everything that is research noteworthy, and you're going to have to keep a close eye on your base stores and end/mission loot/sell for anything you picked up that's research worthy. You could end up missing something that even gets sold that you didn't know you needed to research.

Keeping your attack force at your research base means anything you picked up - right away go check the research menu and see if your research options changed. Sometimes research prereqs pop even if you just get an item, without researching it and that would change no matter where you had the stuff (item which has 0 research cost, no ufopedia entry, has needsItem: true, and Gives One Free).

But otherwise keeping the attack force at your initial base is sorta essential unless you want to 2x increase the micromanagement hassle. Also those Shipping Costs add up eventually.

Offline arbee81

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2017, 11:49:18 pm »
That radar idea is interesting, though you do get those easy academy landings the first few months, and I've had a few random missions with landings that really paid off well before I had any better radar options. Not consistent or reliable though.

I couldn't hack it with so few gals. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but on anything but those civvy ship raids I rarely walk away without at least one gal injured, and those injury times are long before you get proper healing facilities

How do you get reticulan plasma chargers early?  I'm just starting to see reticulans now at the end of the second year and they're a handful for the trained gals with decent weapons. Or is this what you meant?

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Offline Scorrpio

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2017, 06:08:22 am »
In piratez I was forced to upgrade my storage facility bases with a few extractors and about 30-50 runts each. And all they do is mine Hellerium. Because late game you're going to need at least 25,000 Hellerium racked up and probably more in order to have constructed the 500+ Hellerium Fuel Cells
That is an insanely inefficient use of runts.
A single runt assigned to hellerium takes 750 hours and $100 to produce an item that can be bought outright for 20k.
Or, for comparison, make that 1500 hours and $200 to make 2 Hellerium  ($40k to buy)
Same runt assigned to make plastasteel:
Single batch is 1500 hours, 50k cost, 25k for chems, 6.25k for scrap.   Sell value at 4.5k * 50 = 225k, or almost 144k  profit.


Offline RSSwizard

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2017, 06:40:13 am »
That is an insanely inefficient use of runts.
A single runt assigned to hellerium takes 750 hours and $100 to produce an item that can be bought outright for 20k.
Or, for comparison, make that 1500 hours and $200 to make 2 Hellerium  ($40k to buy)
Same runt assigned to make plastasteel:
Single batch is 1500 hours, 50k cost, 25k for chems, 6.25k for scrap.   Sell value at 4.5k * 50 = 225k, or almost 144k  profit.

meh, I modded it - 1000 hrs and produces 5 units per thing
forgot about that, guess thats a strategy that only works for me then

though now I see what you're getting at
(while im at it I really need to get to pulling out the hellerium from all those lasclips ive got)

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2017, 06:12:24 pm »
meh, I modded it - forgot about that, guess thats a strategy that only works for me then

@RSSwizard:

Wow.  That will completely skew your perspectives,  and makes a lot of your advice suspect.

Any chance you might abandon your mods and play the game as designed?

Offline legionof1

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2017, 08:30:21 pm »
At least he freely admits the cases where he does personal modifications when it's relevant to the discussion.

I've muddled with hellirium myself to speed up the end game cause i don't feel like grinding "treading water" score while i process 250k hellrium. As good as this is to play another ~100 hours after i know i will win without fail is not something i care to do. I might not run the modification all campaign, but can anyone here say they have never used debug to find that last foe ever? Even Merdian was technically modding the game for his own enjoyment how many times during his LP? Even if those changes got incorporated later, that was still editing the mod.     

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2017, 09:06:43 pm »
The end game grind for hellerium shouldn't take you ~100 hours if you've built up some industry, just however long it'd take your factories to pump out 500 million dolaros worth of battle tanks or whatever you prefer - took me only 8 in-game months of mostly skipping missions and shooting down crackdown craft for fun/score, and that wasn't all-out moneymaking either.  The score bonus means you could probably do it even a bit faster if you didn't want to skip missions.  If you recast it as a challenge of your moneymaking enterprise and not a tedious minigame, then it becomes much less of a chore.

Offline legionof1

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2017, 09:23:35 pm »
Sure but at least for my part i like to proceed directly to final mission once i know i have won, not faff about half a year plus. The content options of a given playthrough are explored i want that to be the end. All it takes is one significant error for a critical base to go by bye setting progress back alot. By that point in play i'm prone to making those types of errors from inattention to detail.

The end of Player engagement and the end of the game need to happen at the same time. Right now at least for me they don't. Hence i mod the mod.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2017, 02:19:35 pm »
All is fine with modding to skip problems created by the game being quite unfinished. Modding to get direct buffs and extreme savescumming are another thing. But it's good RSS Wizard admits it, since it informs me that his musings on improving this or that are worthless for me.

Offline tylor

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2017, 04:25:14 am »
My base setup by the end of second year is

1. Main base for attack (~30 best gals, 1hangar), research and some minor crafting (mostly processing whatever strike team collects).
2. Main craft base with couple of hangars. I use it for making aircrafts and everything else that I'm going to use myself.
3. Rookie base with a Spa where I recruit, filter and train new recruits. They sometimes fly on missions with lower-tier enemies.

Other 5 bases are pure money-making crafting, interceptors and radars. Maybe with some garrison in case of crackdown.

Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2017, 10:26:55 am »
My base setup by the end of second year is

1. Main base for attack (~30 best gals, 1hangar), research and some minor crafting (mostly processing whatever strike team collects).
2. Main craft base with couple of hangars. I use it for making aircrafts and everything else that I'm going to use myself.
3. Rookie base with a Spa where I recruit, filter and train new recruits. They sometimes fly on missions with lower-tier enemies.

Other 5 bases are pure money-making crafting, interceptors and radars. Maybe with some garrison in case of crackdown.

Isn't a setup of 2x dojo and 10 hands better? Add some dogs and/or Sentryrocket-turrets to the garrison.
Unless spawnpoints are total garbage, you can decimate the intruders with the turret quite easy.

Offline legionof1

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Re: Looking for some base management advice
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2017, 10:17:26 pm »
The turret is some what poor in base defense even if it spawns well. 3 way points is not sufficient to allow it to influence a different floor from it spawn position. And a lot of the normal HWP spawn points are behind auto close hatches.