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Author Topic: Help me git gud, question thread  (Read 58720 times)

Offline KiriKaneko

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Help me git gud, question thread
« on: March 09, 2017, 12:06:05 am »
Original title: Ran out of stuff to research

Aside from stop attacking civvie aircraft that is

Should I research this now? Or do you have any idea where I can get some better tech? A medium craft just landed but a cyberdisk onboard one shotted 2 of my soldiers who I'd trained over 2 years and I cleared out. I assume I need to raid some craft I havent done yet, but defender armour goes down in one hit to these beasts
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 01:10:22 am by KiriKaneko »

Offline legionof1

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Re: Out of stuff to research
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2017, 12:15:20 am »
I don't adequately recall the early tech tree(and it keeps getting changed :P) but i think do need to stop targeting civvies to progress at some point. 

However on the subject of cyberdisks, burning damage kills them quite quickly. Chuck a few moltovs or other incendiary grenades from cover until they star burning and then get out of sight for a few turns and they should burn to death.

Offline nrafield

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Re: Out of stuff to research
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2017, 12:28:26 am »
Don't be scared of Cyberdisks. They are incredibly lethal, but if you actually attack them (with something like Superconductive cannonballs or any other strong explosive) they will go down quite easily, unlike these pesky Mechtoids who can survive through multiple mortar blasts with no damage.

Offline legionof1

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Re: Out of stuff to research
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2017, 12:45:26 am »
Conventional Explosives are only of middling use vs cyberdisk as they are very resistant to concussive damage with semi decent all round armor. They do suffer X4 damage from AOE attacks because they are a 2x2 unit. But you need about 60 concussion damage to do any damage at all, and 120 hp is pretty beefy. Low tech bombs simply wont be efficient. 

Offline KiriKaneko

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Re: Out of stuff to research
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2017, 02:37:46 am »
This one was flying. My plan was to hit it with the mortar like I did to this kind of ball demon once, but it vaporized my mortar girl first. Are they resistant to laser fire? We have euro laser rifles that are pretty lethal. I don't really have any decent fire weapons but I could get incendiary rounds for my explosive weapons. Should I be raiding these landed mediums then? Don't wanna lose too many soldiers, I'm having to train up 4 new ones but I still have 15 with maxed strength and TU with very high stamina, HP, melee, each one feels like a major loss

Also one of my bases got raided and wiped, but I don't have the means to down medium craft yet and I cant afford girls for my other bases because if I do then my core team will promote themselves and started sucking up hundreds of thousands of cash per month. I'm building 4 shrouds in my workshop base but it won't guarantee it's safety and this thing is expensive

1 of my girls got mauled by a werewolf (defender was no help), another killed herself when her mortar blew up in her face even though there were no obstacles or tree in front of her, one was vaporized by a cyberdisk (the other barely survived), and one was a pilot who was lost in that raided base

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Out of stuff to research
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2017, 03:00:45 am »
Cyberdiscs, if you lack means to deliver incendiaries to them, make dedicated antitank weapons shine. ES rifles are certainly the best midgame shooty weapon against them and are able to cut them to ribbons, but certainly not one-shot them.

Offline Scorrpio

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Re: Out of stuff to research
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2017, 07:30:48 am »
Not knowing what you did or did not research, it is real hard to give advice.   Research tree is massively interconnected, and some things have the darnedest dependencies.  Some real crucial tech branches are locked behind things you get randomly from interrogating captives over and over and over.   Or decrypting those disks.  Did you get to School Graduation?

Offline KiriKaneko

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Re: Out of stuff to research
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2017, 12:35:05 pm »
I haven't got school graduation yet. I've interrogated every captive until I could only sell them

I've completely interrogated all captives of crackhouse raids, save the sister, temple raid, warehouse raid, Lok'Narr, Rat village. Even the priests and academy medics. I captured another medic and broke it after I unlocked interrogation and got some info on the blaster launcher and it told me I wont benefit from interrogating another broken medic

When I raided the base to steal some advanced tech for tac vests I was lucky enough to get a reverend, and "lucky" enough to get a chrysalid (who used to be one of my soldiers, it was on the evac zone)

I've also splashed civvie ships and interrogated tough girls, sharp guys, fat men, labourers. I'm still interrogating the flight officers that I keep finding for info on ships. I interrogated osiron security once but they had nothing left to tell me after that. I've had 2 humanist leaders and presume I can still get more info but the normal humanists have nothing else to say. I still get info from reticulan sirens from their small ships but not the peons and hybrids. I occasionally see smugglers and they usually pack my shit in. I've beaten them a few times, usually with losses but I dont even try to capture them it's just grenade spam central. I've seen government but I leave them, I dont want to piss them off. I've had some monsters hunts where I usually run into hunters, got some nomads from that and most things gave me info on monsters. Strangely I've never seen any raiders. I don't see much of the terror units since my progroms usually start at night and I wont throw away soldiers on a suicide mission like that, most enemies have no problem spotting me in the dark, and my preferred way to deal with dangerous enemies is to spot them at a distance, then hit them with mortars, grenades, laser fire, rather than risk them coming round the corner on their turn and taking point blank shots or using explosives against us

According to this document:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3LA7DXD41YYRTVMaTl1cXNKN3M/view?ths=true

I've only interrogated 1 academy engineer, 1 trader engineer and 1 reverend, still need guild air sailors and humanist leaders, and havent captured academy espers, provosts, beastmasters, bugbears, armorued church beastmasters, church cardinal, church exalt, church matron, church zealot, all govt troops, guild masters, all raiders, marsec, all mercenaries, sectogres, need more sirens, smugglers, seems like spartans have nothing to teach me but I havent interrogated them, and I havent interrogated any star gods

I'm usually backing out of medium craft because I cant handle chrysalids, cyberdisks, tanks. Even when I do those I tend to utilise a lot of high explosives. I could probably win one of those missions but I'd suffer losses and my soldiers are super elites that I cant just throw away. I need rare earth elements to make more defender armour but I've stopped seeing Save the Lok Narrs, and I never see raiders. I would ideally want an armour that can protect my soldiers from cyberdisk plasma, tank explosives or chrysalid/werewolf melee, or at least enable me to reliably one shot them without taking return fire. Wish there was a way to tell which enemies can see through smoke

I also still have an academy and a church base up but I havent touched them since I got 3 soldiers killed capturing some of their gauss tech to unlock Krazy Hannah in year 1

Offline legionof1

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Re: Out of stuff to research
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2017, 01:06:58 pm »
Nothing but endgame tech is reliable to tank cyberdisk shots. Even then it only about 60% of the time and plasma armor shred makes following hits much harder to repel.

Tanks can be mitigated by a large margin by flying armor/height advantage. Tanks are pretty inaccurate so if there is nothing behind the line of fire to catch the rounds they tend to sail off harmlessly.

Chrissies are best handled by massed reaction fire. They are not particularly well armored and low hp for a terror unit.

If you have the tech i suggest plate+shield armor and guerilla/chromeback armor to improve survival odds. plate generally survives most things wounded rather then dead. guerilla and chromeback armor have a very large bonus to reactions which lets you win reaction tests much more and therefore get shot much less.


Offline KiriKaneko

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Re: Out of stuff to research
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2017, 02:09:50 pm »
Thanks. I don't have plate and shield sadly. I generally want to go for high armour because there's plenty of enemies who can't really hurt us much with high armour, it's just a small number that can

We had a landed shrine ship and nearly won. A cellatid one shot one of my elite troops but I decided to push through. We had about 15 enemies down and a lot were panicking or going berserk, but we ran out of our canteen of refreshments and I forgot to replace the extras after a rocket on a terror mission took them out so we were forced to retreat. Think I might have to just push through the powerful terror units with brute forces til I get some better tech

Offline legionof1

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Re: Out of stuff to research
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2017, 04:13:41 pm »
Push through is usually a good idea in most cases, it takes alot of experience with the game to minimize loses to a meaningful degree. That said the gals are more likely to end up in the sickbay then dead to most foes even in low armor outifts. Aside from terror units and mercs, the gals have better hp pools then what they are fighting.

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: Out of stuff to research
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2017, 05:31:52 pm »
In answer to your initial question: yep. A major tech gate (Library) has now been pushed behind "Stop Civilian Shipping".  Time to bite the bullet, research that tech, and get through the gate.

Edit:  Whoops.  As pointed out below, I'm mistaken in this statement.  Sorry about that.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 07:09:01 pm by ivandogovich »

Offline Scorrpio

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Re: Out of stuff to research
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2017, 06:12:30 pm »
In answer to your initial question: yep. A major tech gate (Library) has now been pushed behind "Stop Civilian Shipping".  Time to bite the bullet, research that tech, and get through the gate.
My research analyzer says otherwise.  Library is behind Mutant Alliance.  Stop shooting Civs has mainly political stuff, needed for zero-zero, family ties and reticulan alliance.

I suppose you did research 'Back to School'?
And if you did, do you have:
Advanced Chemistry
Medical Examination
Power Tools
Optronic Computing
Superconductive Circuits?

Offline KiriKaneko

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Re: Out of stuff to research
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2017, 06:30:05 pm »
I don't think I have optronic computing from that list

I might hold off on researching civvie craft thing for a while, I'd like some money saved up and my cash production bases to be ready so I can immediately buy the new tech and reliably raid the landed medium and large ships to make up for it. I've also found some new stuff like an industrial printer, some terror units (had a really easy raider progrom which got me a ton of earth element) and it seems I might be able to get my first suits of power armour soon. I also did a government craft and got some gov captives, point loss was pretty small. I'll keep going, interrogating the flight officers, seeing if I can do some mediums, get the stop raiding civvie when I have like 20mil in bank, my manufacturing base is ready, I've replaced my lost elites and exhausted the new research stuff that I got

Also I've brought one of my pilots back, 3 interceptors should be fine and I'll build 4 shrouds in the 3rd interceptor base soon as well to reduce the odds of them detecting anything but my main base and my radar bases

Offline legionof1

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Re: Out of stuff to research
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2017, 07:08:14 pm »
3+ shrouds is probably overkill given the multiplicative diminishing returns. Also unless your planing to target things above medium size in the short term i feel like you have over invested in craft unless your teaming up a bunch of jet-bikes or similar super low tech craft. Even the menace class transports are genrally sufficient to handle anything medium and smaller that isn't equipped with shields solo. Granted they cant catch everything they can outfight. Unlike vanilla anything that is helleirum fueled can easily orbit the planet a few times on one tank of fuel. Only things like the initial airbus have actual range issues.