Author Topic: A thread for little questions  (Read 1322396 times)

Offline Ethereal_Medic

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 941
  • Pet Lokk'Nar 9,99 $/hour
    • View Profile
Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #210 on: May 03, 2017, 10:05:13 am »
Rebel-Mutants can only be captured during the Euro-Syndicate Elimination Request
Don't ask why but doing a crashsite against a rebel-freighter/fighter will net you outdated gear and no captives.
You can't make slaves out of them and can't rob them so no big deal.

If you aim for 100% Techtree, this is not possible anymore :3

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 11730
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #211 on: May 03, 2017, 04:07:48 pm »
If you aim for 100% Techtree, this is not possible anymore :3

Well, it hasn't been possible since the introduction of Codexes. ;)

Offline Ethereal_Medic

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 941
  • Pet Lokk'Nar 9,99 $/hour
    • View Profile
Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #212 on: May 04, 2017, 12:19:52 pm »
I don't mind that, Codex-choices are just too 'cryptic' for new users and too imbalanced for the experienced players to a point that someone can run into struggles picking a 'new' color and running into situations which can break the whole campaign.

Since Voodoo is a total gimmick with the current state of the game and just screws the player facing AND using it, gold and grey will be tough for me to adapt.

I won't pick red again, because garbage on so many levels and green is actually the better red-codex.
Green will be for future plans but might be too similar to red and cyclopses can be unlocked by another color as well.

Offline Ragshak

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 136
    • View Profile
Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #213 on: May 04, 2017, 06:24:57 pm »
Isnt Ghost outfit worth going for Grey?

Offline legionof1

  • Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 1900
  • Bullets go that way. Money comes this way.
    • View Profile
Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #214 on: May 05, 2017, 03:14:58 am »
snip
Since Voodoo is a total gimmick with the current state of the game and just screws the player facing AND using it, gold and grey will be tough for me to adapt.
snip

Care to expand on that? I'm curious, how you came to the conclusion your getting screwed both ways. Certainly defending against psi is difficult to borderline unfair depending on myriad factors. However your tone would suggest you are actively harming yourself by using psi options. Which.....bwhuh?!?? :o

Offline Ethereal_Medic

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 941
  • Pet Lokk'Nar 9,99 $/hour
    • View Profile
Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #215 on: May 05, 2017, 12:06:19 pm »
I'll try to explain as honest as possible with the informations I got at hand.
I have to make clear that I got my first impl. bomb-launcher in late Nov. 2603 and to the very day (10th Jan. 2604) my research for Higher Studies is still going (20 Brainers allocated).
I screwed myself by using red codex so I have no way to access fairies/witches and ghosts.
Unless someone picked green or red codex, they can't get bio-suits so I won't mention those in my further explanations.

Fighting against voodoo: (we use the thunderhorse because leviathan does not exist due to RNG bomblaunchers)
Most anti-voodoo equipments are skimpy uniforms that offer no armor values, have horrible cold-resistance (-1hp every turn unless 2-3 ushankas in the backpack) but prevent been targeted by voodoo.
The issue with enemy voodoo attacks is the same issue the vanilla game had. If the enemy can see a toe of one of your squad-members, they can target everyone of your squad beside having no vision on them.

This leads to the following situation (considering you have voodoo-school and finished screening):
You have to filter your team for hands with 50+ v-power and if possible 40 v-skill. You bring your best P+ crew to the fray, you will equip your squad and assign witches/ghosts/fairies if your codex choice was gold/grey. Now you have your squishies set up and start to build a frontline with a mixture of harbinger/guardians and melee-suits. If you pick brute-armor, you can count on getting this hand mc'ed quite frequently.
Your crashsite (big ship with 3espers) will roll out like this:
Turn 1: Sit in the craft, shot dudes facing your ramps and smoke-screen the area inside, on the roof and around the ramps. If an enemy can see through the smoke you will suffer long-range psy-attacks with mostly failed attempts against the least resistant hand. This has no counterplay other than make sure your squad is 100% consealed and outside of soulsense-range.
Turn 2-4: You advance and fight your way to the craft entrance doors. Your power-armor soldiers and tanks go first. If you got lucky, you encounter enemy espers outside the craft and kill/capture them. Your soldiers in power-armor have no additional voodoo-defence protection and got closer to the espers hidden in the craft. Your turns will end and some goon or cyberdisk will spot a toe of one of your teammates. As soon as the esper gets her turn, she can check your whole squad for the best success-rate for her mc-attack and finds a target. If she fails, luck on your side.

If she does her job, she MC-ed a power-armor dude hugging the craft-hull equiped with at least one grenade and a weapon with high power and 2-3 shots per 100% TU. We remember that a MC-ed hand has full timeunits and will do harm to your squad. Grenade will go to grouped teammates for low-medium damage. Snapshots/autofire will hit your squishy witches/fairies/etc.
This advanced into the game a lost voodoo-specialist costs like 4-6 months worth of training until replaced. The lost fairy-suit will hurt the most. Good luck screening a valid gal with 50+ v-power.

One hand down the fight will continue and your best strategie is to unequip the voodoo-wimp once you get control back of her. You fight with 2 hands less now and you'll slowly realize that you have to brute-force your way into the craft and find the remainings espers. Once again you got closer to them with the power-armor soldiers and made the espers voodoo-attacks easier to be successful. Now your team is in soulsense-range, no way to 'hide' your toes now.

Turn 5+: You inch your way into the tight corridors with your power-armor dudes ready to snapshot end of turn. The espers will go for MC again and again to grind on your nerves. Your squishy fairies and witches are best adviced to sit outside the craft, doing nothing and cheering the power-armor teammates to do the most dirty work that will lose you the most soldiers in the later playthrough. You eventually win the fight and shed tears for the lost fairy-suit and the 61/40 gal lost in service because your 59/40 harbinger-armor decided to autoshot your fairy with an XG-Rifle.

Now to the other side of the coin...

Fighting with voodoo: (still thunderhorse as vessel because RNG-bomblaunchers)

We have 18 slots to offer captain. Let's try out those witches and fairies instead of an additional MC-immune bulletsponge called Hovertank/Devastator.
We guess the enemies will field gauss and cyberdisks so we don't use harbinger AND brute-armor. So the frontline is a mix of guardians/xenos/blitz-armors/ghosts, 1x hovertank. Our support-squad is 1x loader with tornado-mortar, 2x fairy (gems tho) 2x witches.

Turn 1: Those fairies and witches will sit inside the craft and might do nothing because they can't get out or can't succeed with voodoo-attacks because both versions of the voodoo-rod lose power over distance. Your frontline and the one hovertank will shot onto the goons facing the ramps and cover your team in smoke. End of turn random voodoo-attacks of the enemy espers targeting your frontliners with no effect.
Turn 2-4: Your frontline once again does the most in mowing down securities and cyberdisks and the one loader-suit nukes hard-to-hit soldiers grouped up. Your fairies fly out the roof and hide like cowards in a 'save' corner next to the enemy craft. Your witches slowly inch through the smoke-screen and the player checks the success-rate of the mc-attack against an osiron-security dude and still goofs around with a success-rate of -1 to 0. No value out of two fragile witches taking up space and offering no utility (besides designed to support) and 2 coward-fairies doing nothing either.
4 slots worth of hands big enough to push another hovertank into the team. The turn ends, the espers 'sense' the fairies hugging the crafts hull and start to mc-control a guardian-suit. No matter what the traitor carries as gun, it will be strong enough to kill one of the cowardly fairies in sight.
Turn 5+: Lesson learnt, you strip the guardian off her guns and let her do nothing just like the fairies and witches do. The frontliners inch forward and the hovertank spots and shots the enemies while the loader keeps bombarding the area. The workhorses breach the crashed vessel and spent turns and TU's for snapshots against doorways and lifts. The espers keep grinding thier minds and keep mc-ing the unarmed guardian-suit next to the craft and randomly other teammates but never ever consider to target your left-over fairy or your 2 witches.
You eventually win the fight by brute force and lucky rolls of your witches or one lucky thorugh-the-wall-stun of your fairy but in the end, the spoils go to the brave guardians/xenos/blitz/ghosts fighting face to face against the foes and each other. Even the hovertank and the loader-suit will get more credit than the left-over fairy and the witches.

Something else I like to mention is the high costs of using those unsuccessful witches. Morale/Stamina loss adds up quickly so you have to spent ressources to raise morale and stamina again.
All those TU's are much better used in using more tanks, more firepower and armored hands instead of wasting slots for hands with no armor, no guns, no utility and no purpose to exist if you can straight up shot/slash your way to victory and not bothering about 'luck' with getting an osiron-security mc'ed to barely do anything useful for the fight. Even a saviour-outfit (the best 'medic') offers more use (stunattack and heal stuffed into her medpack) and is resistant to voodoo.

My perspective, hope this wall of text might enlighten someone.

Offline juff

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 45
    • View Profile
Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #216 on: May 05, 2017, 12:46:09 pm »
so here's a little number crunching assuming my figures are correct.
Let's take an Academy Esper, which has 65 strength and 40 skill. Max Difficulty increases that to 75 and 46.
This makes its base accuracy 75*46/50+25 = 95
VDDef is Strength+0.2Skill+0.33Morale-23, so for a girl with 40/40 and 100 morale thats 58 defense
that means at point blank range the esper has a 37% chance of succeeding on mind control, which drops by 2% for each tile.
That sounds pretty reasonable to me, unless there's some extra modifier.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 12:48:52 pm by juff »

Offline Ethereal_Medic

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 941
  • Pet Lokk'Nar 9,99 $/hour
    • View Profile
Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #217 on: May 05, 2017, 12:55:34 pm »
RNG my friend, voodoo against the player is a total pain to deal with if you can't field annihilator suits (which don't exist because RNG-bomblaunchers).
In sousense range she will have like 20% chance to succeed and boom goes a frontline shoting your squad.
The esper can use her skill 2 times in most cases. Thier morale and stamina don't drop as hard using voodoo in comparision to witches.
Espers never succeed in panicing a hand but manage to mc a gal in 1 out of 3 cases.

Offline Zharkov

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 429
    • View Profile
Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #218 on: May 05, 2017, 01:08:08 pm »
I think, it is not supposed to be easy. However, Espers are prone to fall for decoys - put your psi-wise weakest hand in a weak armor, assign a minder, when the weak hand is mind controlled, have the minder stun her. Not perfect but workable.

Offline juff

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 45
    • View Profile
Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #219 on: May 05, 2017, 01:26:08 pm »
You can also try using superhero armour. it's got about 30 extra voodoo defense.

Offline Solarius Scorch

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 11730
  • WE MUST DISSENT
    • View Profile
    • Nocturmal Productions modding studio website
Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #220 on: May 05, 2017, 01:52:22 pm »
Or just stop acting like every MC wad a TPK situation. Most MC cases can be ignored or contained.

Offline ohartenstein23

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1933
  • Flamethrowers fry cyberdisk circuits
    • View Profile
Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #221 on: May 05, 2017, 02:46:28 pm »
Also, getting one unit seen allowing the rest of your units to be psi targeted is patently false.  The enemy can only target units they've seen or have attacked them, and only for as long as the spotter's intelligence stat allows.  If manage line of sight, you can make sure only a few units get targeted. This is just harder when units like espers have wallhack vision.

Offline Ethereal_Medic

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 941
  • Pet Lokk'Nar 9,99 $/hour
    • View Profile
Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #222 on: May 05, 2017, 03:52:20 pm »
Just running into the corner cases most of the time.

I like to remind that voodoo-casters can target your whole squad regardless of range or vision.
They target the most juicy victim the math tells them to MC. Those attacks look like they're 10 tiles away most of the time but the truth is just like the vanilla game.
They can choose from everyone but will aim for the wimps. They won't bother aiming for a hand with 30/12 @ 40 tiles away.

Superhero armor while offering a grav-pack is easily gunned down by plasma-rifles/pistols and the whole gauss-arsenal. Lasers will hurt as well.
I'd rather use the armor for O-G missions rather than dangerous crashsites.

A crashsite of academy will field 100% gauss-weaponry making all armors useless other than brute-armor and brute-armor makes hands weak against espers/provosts.
Your superhero armor has no protection value against a gauss-musket (or g-pistol) bullet and i can assure you it will hit hard and make the hand unable to fight or oneshot-kill her.

Offline Ethereal_Medic

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 941
  • Pet Lokk'Nar 9,99 $/hour
    • View Profile
Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #223 on: May 05, 2017, 03:56:56 pm »
I think, it is not supposed to be easy. However, Espers are prone to fall for decoys - put your psi-wise weakest hand in a weak armor, assign a minder, when the weak hand is mind controlled, have the minder stun her. Not perfect but workable.

Just like it worked in the vanilla game.
I would suggest you don't stun the mind controlled traitor and just let the turn end and once you have control just unarm him/her and keep feeding him/her to the esper.
This proves my point that the enemy can target your whole squad and aims for the best hitrate.

Offline Ethereal_Medic

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 941
  • Pet Lokk'Nar 9,99 $/hour
    • View Profile
Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #224 on: May 05, 2017, 03:59:40 pm »
Or just stop acting like every MC wad a TPK situation. Most MC cases can be ignored or contained.

I know. In many cases the mc'ed hand just runs away and reserves TU's for autoshots. The corner cases are lost hands and tactical retreats.