Author Topic: [MOD] PG13 Version (Less NSFW) 99G4.104 (BugFix)  (Read 13097 times)

Offline ivandogovich

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[MOD] PG13 Version (Less NSFW) 99F1.74 Update
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2017, 01:08:57 am »
Closing in on finishing most of the main 'Pedia.  Haven't started the Awards at all.

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone.  (Btw, Marza thanks for pointing out Hanna/Tank Killer duplication)

Preview:





Overall, I'm pretty happy with how the mod is turning out.  I do have some images in that I feel could be different and better, and I may work on revisions later.  As Dioxine has said in Discord, the majority of the time is searching for images that fit the concept in mind.  It can take a while.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MOD] PG13 Version (Less NSFW) 99F1.74
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2017, 01:18:19 pm »
You just need to rename it from 'PG Mod' to 'Ivan's Pedia Pictures Mod', IMO since obviously making it PG is not your main objective :)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MOD] PG13 Version (Less NSFW) 99F1.74
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2017, 01:29:12 pm »
You just need to rename it from 'PG Mod' to 'Ivan's Pedia Pictures Mod', IMO since obviously making it PG is not your main objective :)

No no no, it's a trap, I like it! :)

Offline Meridian

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Re: [MOD] PG13 Version (Less NSFW) 99F1.74
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2017, 01:39:19 pm »
I think he's doing a great job.
And whether it's called PG13, U16, X237 or whatever, the intent is pretty clear to anyone who played piratez for 10+ minutes.
Don't allow anyone to discourage you Ivan, we support you!

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MOD] PG13 Version (Less NSFW) 99F1.74
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2017, 07:58:54 pm »
Never said he's doing a bad job, but the intent isn't that clear :)

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: [MOD] PG13 Version (Less NSFW) 99F1.74
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2017, 12:14:29 am »
Never said he's doing a bad job, but the intent isn't that clear :)

This is my intent, quoted from theOpening Post:
Quote
"Essentially it will try to replace a lot of the nudity in the bootypedia and some of the background images."
  (I'm generally trying to follow a YT definition of Nudity )

Aside from that, where possible, I am also trying to keep with the "pinup" style of art that goes with the sassy attitude of the base mod.

I get that you may not agree with the art I'm choosing, and I don't really expect you to like the way that this changes the edgy-ness of the mod and tames it a bit.  I also can see that its annoying to see art that you really liked and went out of your way to include in the mod getting replaced.   

Again, I have deep respect for your artistic vision as the author of the mod.  I think X-PirateZ is an absolutely amazing project, otherwise, I wouldn't be spending my time on this.

Offline KBGhost

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Re: [MOD] PG13 Version (Less NSFW) 99F1.74
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2017, 09:59:17 am »
Never said he's doing a bad job, but the intent isn't that clear :)
The current bootypedia art is pretty bad, this mod tries to improve that.
One of the reasons why is because the art is inconsistent in quality.
Another reason is that some of the pictures are really weird, not even the funny type of weird.
Lastly there's the NSFW aspect (not neccessarily bad but really oversaturated in this case), it turns off a lot of people from X-piratez and I'd bet it would have been more popular if the bootypedia wasn't crowded of softcore porn.
Though, there's some really good pictures as well, but they're overshadowed by the others.

« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 10:03:46 am by KBGhost »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MOD] PG13 Version (Less NSFW) 99F1.74
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2017, 10:30:02 am »
The current bootypedia art is pretty bad, this mod tries to improve that.
One of the reasons why is because the art is inconsistent in quality.
Another reason is that some of the pictures are really weird, not even the funny type of weird.

It is you who is funny. I don't care about the so-called quality. Weird? Well of course, weird, gritty, and dirty. This mod is done for the Horde, and in the name of camp cinema. Smooth elven ladies and polished white knight armor makes me sick, and my art choices are aimed at people who also feel sick when watching such stuff.

Also @Ivan, I'm not attacking you, no need to get so defensive, really. I'm always pro-modding but I can't take you 100% seriously with such examples of 'nudity' you're removing, as attached; you have said making this more friendly to people who dislike nudity was the goal, that's how you got my agreement to include it in the distribution package. Now, seeing it's clearly just a secondary concern for you, I have no choice but to cancel that agreement. No hard feelings, please. It's just not what we agreed upon.

EDIT: I haven't forgotten you've always been an important contributor. We can talk and come to new terms, but you have overstretched the original agreement, that's what I'm saying.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 10:39:18 am by Dioxine »

Offline KBGhost

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Re: [MOD] PG13 Version (Less NSFW) 99F1.74
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2017, 10:54:27 am »
Also @Ivan, I'm not attacking you, no need to get so defensive, really. I'm always pro-modding but I can't take you 100% seriously with such examples of 'nudity' you're removing, as attached; you have said making this more friendly to people who dislike nudity was the goal, that's how you got my agreement to include it in the distribution package. Now, seeing it's clearly just a secondary concern for you, I have no choice but to cancel that agreement. No hard feelings, please. It's just not what we agreed upon.
I'm even more puzzled by this, how is it such a problem that Ivan decided to change other things besides the nudity?
Assuming that the mod can be activated and deactivated why is it such a big deal?
Seems like a knee jerk reaction.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MOD] PG13 Version (Less NSFW) 99F1.74
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2017, 02:53:19 pm »
I'm even more puzzled by this, how is it such a problem that Ivan decided to change other things besides the nudity?
Assuming that the mod can be activated and deactivated why is it such a big deal?
Seems like a knee jerk reaction.

It's not really my place to speak, since it's not my mod, Piratez is not my mod either. Also it's no secret that Sioxine is my buddy in real life and I've worked with him on various projects for at 15 years, which doesn't really put me in a favourable position to speak. But I consider Ivan a good friend too, he's a talented mod tweaker and one of the nicest people around here. So here goes.

The mod's purpose was expressly describes as:

The goal of this mod is to make the game visually a bit less NSFW.  Essentially it will try to replace a lot of the nudity in the bootypedia and some of the background images.

Dioxine was supportive of this idea from the start, or in fact neutral (I personally think the idea of being offended by pixelated cartoon breasts is just flat-out retarded and bordering on insane, so he's actually way more positive towards the idea than I am). He gave his blessing and all.

But the problem is with those other pictures. Dioxine expressly stated (at least on the Discord channel) that he's perfectly fine with a mod changing the Ufopaedia, or anything else, as everyone is free to mod anything; otherwise Piratez could never happen either. But he explained that if a mod is stated to only censor some pictures, but in fact changes some other ones into something that conveys a different message, then it's not right. And I understand why: those pictures, even if sub-par graphically, were there for a reason, and some of them were changed that Dioxine didn't like on an ideological level - mostly about being rather objectifying towards the women rather than empowering them, as the original art intended. This creates a problem that a potential player expects to play the mod as intended minus the boobs, but in fact receives something that conveys a different message, and one the original author doesn't support (duh). I'm sure Ivan did not intend it, and probably never though of it, but it still holds.

Has Dioxine overreacted? Maybe he didn't express himself well enough. But it's not about his social skills, it's about the spirit of a creative work, which is kinda justified. Calling it "a knee jerk reaction" is completely ignorant, though understandable from someone who is not a creator.

So I am inclined to agree there are two ways of mending this:

1) Change the mod name to something else, like for example "Ivan's Bootypedia Pictures". Then it would clearly state that the work is not endorsed by the original creator - basically fan fiction - and everyone is happy.

2) Leave the title as is, but stop playing with the original message.

I'm sure Dioxine would support both solutions too. I'm pretty sure he doesn't want conflict, isn't angry with Ivan or anything, they seem (I think) to be on really friendly terms too.. But these sort of things naturally happen with any creative process and must be resolved before devolving into something toxic. It's a perfectly normal process.

Offline KBGhost

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Re: [MOD] PG13 Version (Less NSFW) 99F1.74
« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2017, 03:36:49 pm »
It's not really my place to speak, since it's not my mod, Piratez is not my mod either. Also it's no secret that Sioxine is my buddy in real life and I've worked with him on various projects for at 15 years, which doesn't really put me in a favourable position to speak. But I consider Ivan a good friend too, he's a talented mod tweaker and one of the nicest people around here. So here goes.

The mod's purpose was expressly describes as:

Dioxine was supportive of this idea from the start, or in fact neutral (I personally think the idea of being offended by pixelated cartoon breasts is just flat-out retarded and bordering on insane, so he's actually way more positive towards the idea than I am). He gave his blessing and all.

But the problem is with those other pictures. Dioxine expressly stated (at least on the Discord channel) that he's perfectly fine with a mod changing the Ufopaedia, or anything else, as everyone is free to mod anything; otherwise Piratez could never happen either. But he explained that if a mod is stated to only censor some pictures, but in fact changes some other ones into something that conveys a different message, then it's not right. And I understand why: those pictures, even if sub-par graphically, were there for a reason, and some of them were changed that Dioxine didn't like on an ideological level - mostly about being rather objectifying towards the women rather than empowering them, as the original art intended. This creates a problem that a potential player expects to play the mod as intended minus the boobs, but in fact receives something that conveys a different message, and one the original author doesn't support (duh). I'm sure Ivan did not intend it, and probably never though of it, but it still holds.

Has Dioxine overreacted? Maybe he didn't express himself well enough. But it's not about his social skills, it's about the spirit of a creative work, which is kinda justified. Calling it "a knee jerk reaction" is completely ignorant, though understandable from someone who is not a creator.

So I am inclined to agree there are two ways of mending this:

1) Change the mod name to something else, like for example "Ivan's Bootypedia Pictures". Then it would clearly state that the work is not endorsed by the original creator - basically fan fiction - and everyone is happy.

2) Leave the title as is, but stop playing with the original message.

I'm sure Dioxine would support both solutions too. I'm pretty sure he doesn't want conflict, isn't angry with Ivan or anything, they seem (I think) to be on really friendly terms too.. But these sort of things naturally happen with any creative process and must be resolved before devolving into something toxic. It's a perfectly normal process.
Thanks for the clarification.
What I meant with knee jerk reaction is that this situation could've been resolved pretty quickly by changing the name of the mod like you said.
Though, I still don't see the ideological differences. Isn't Dioxine's version also objectifying women?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 03:46:54 pm by KBGhost »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MOD] PG13 Version (Less NSFW) 99F1.74
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2017, 03:39:41 pm »
@KGBGhost: I suggest reading post you answer to before answering them. Changing name was the first thing I suggested, since it's the only problem I have with this. Use glasses if needed. Unless your intent was flamebaiting, then you've almost succeeded by now.

Offline KBGhost

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Re: [MOD] PG13 Version (Less NSFW) 99F1.74
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2017, 03:47:35 pm »
@KGBGhost: I suggest reading post you answer to before answering them. Changing name was the first thing I suggested, since it's the only problem I have with this. Use glasses if needed. Unless your intent was flamebaiting, then you've almost succeeded by now.
That's not what I meant, you could've just renamed it to Ivan's Bootypedia Pictures for the time being yourself. It doesn't have to be a bureaucracy you know.
I really doubt Ivan would be hurt by that and you could have personally talked to Ivan without making a big deal about it in the thread.
The reason you see it as flamebaiting is because you need to keep your temper in check when it comes to criticism, seriously it's not worth it getting an aneurysm over xcom mods.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 04:07:20 pm by KBGhost »

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: [MOD] PG13 Version (Less NSFW) 99F1.74
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2017, 04:04:40 pm »
Good discussion, and I see your point, Dioxine. 

I think when all is said and done, I'll revert the mod to just deal with the nudity aspect, (silly as that is) and step back from the 3 substitutions for:

Quote
Note:  In my work, I have also found some images, while not NSFW, visually discordant with the mod, and I have taken the liberty to replace some of those with alternates as well.
Alternates:
3 (Beastmen, Builder's Hall, & Krazy Hanna)

These do take much more artistic license.  I'll either recommend these to Roxis' alt bootypedia mod or release another minor one, myself.  It will make things much clearer in regards to the purpose of this mod.

Thanks

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [MOD] PG13 Version (Less NSFW) 99F1.74
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2017, 05:22:22 pm »
These do take much more artistic license.  I'll either recommend these to Roxis' alt bootypedia mod or release another minor one, myself.  It will make things much clearer in regards to the purpose of this mod.

That sounds like a good idea. Why make two mods if you can join forces?