Author Topic: How Does One Remove the Bravery System From Within the Mod's Files? [Resloved]  (Read 2026 times)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Ok so it is configurable per armor type. So no consistency thoughout the game, if the modder decides so.
A fixed rate would be simpler.

Sorry to be an ass, but you know, having only one armour would also be simpler. :P

It's worst in the early game when you can't afford to mass hire and fire all the total garbage recruits.

No starting level of bravery is entirely beyond fixing

Also loosing 6 morale per turn is kinda harsh in the example your provided.

Ehm. People. Killing an enemy gives everyone a +10 morale boost (+20 to the one who did it). Even if you have large Combat Stress, killing just one person per turn is more than enough to offset this.

In 95% of my missions, all my gals never go below 80 or so. Tell me, are you even shooting at them? :P

On a side note, I don't use this feature in my mod either, because it doesn't fit X-Com, not because it's bad. But for future punk pirates it works great.

Offline Meridian

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Ok so it is configurable per armor type. So no consistency thoughout the game, if the modder decides so.
A fixed rate would be simpler.

I thought modders wanted to "mod" things?
How would you mod it if it was fixed?

Also loosing 6 morale per turn is kinda harsh in the example your provided.
It not a feature i would like to use anyway.
But thanks for the explanation.

It was just an example.
Set the constant to 7, and you'll lose only 1 morale per turn.

Also losing 6 morale is totally nothing... with that setting, you could start panicking only after 9 turns!!
And if you kill 2-3 enemies during those 9 turns, you're back at 100 morale.
How's that harsh?

EDIT: actually, I'm wrong, you could never panic in that example, since with bravery 60, you would start gaining morale, before you could panic.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 06:37:24 pm by Meridian »

Offline tylor

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Maybe just raise bottom range of bravery for new recruits on lower difficulties? If it's possible?

Offline Absalom

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Sorry to be an ass, but you know, having only one armour would also be simpler. :P

Ehm. People. Killing an enemy gives everyone a +10 morale boost (+20 to the one who did it). Even if you have large Combat Stress, killing just one person per turn is more than enough to offset this.

In 95% of my missions, all my gals never go below 80 or so. Tell me, are you even shooting at them? :P

On a side note, I don't use this feature in my mod either, because it doesn't fit X-Com, not because it's bad. But for future punk pirates it works great.

Killing people outright gives a moral bonus.  But in the early game you will struggle to outright kill most enemies, and instead most go down bleeding.  As far as I can tell this gives no moral bonus.  Tell me, do you even play on Superhuman?  Not to mention the maps are larger, more of a chance to not meet an enemy until most are tantruming.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 02:17:25 pm by Absalom »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Killing people outright gives a moral bonus.  But in the early game you will struggle to outright kill most enemies, and instead most go down bleeding.  As far as I can tell this gives no moral bonus.  Tell me, do you even play on Superhuman?  Not to mention the maps are larger, more of a chance to not meet an enemy until most are tantruming.

I'm not really sure, but I think morale is still given/taken away for unconscious units that die. If not, they I'd say it's a bug.

Even in an early game I tend to kill most enemies in several turns, if I want to (meaning, going for hostages is something you do on your own risk).

And on Superhuman this is actually way easier - target rich environment!

Offline Meridian

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I'm not really sure, but I think morale is still given/taken away for unconscious units that die. If not, they I'd say it's a bug.

In 99% of cases, it's not.
It looks like a bug to me... but I'll consult with Warboy/SupSuper first.

Also, such kills are (usually) incorrectly attributed in diaries, or even not attributed at all.

Offline Dioxine

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There is a selection of armors that increase Bravery, even in the early game. I reccomend using them to anyone who has problems with panicking. They're there for a damned reason. However I rather find more use for armors that decrease the bravery...

The main purpose of the 'freak out' engine is to discourage the most powerful, and most boring, of early tactics - camping. Low Bravery gals can be quickly trained - or you can spend extra money to hire a batch and kick out all underperformers. Money as a prize for higher skill - what's wrong with that, I ask?

Also there are various early-available Morale boost items, like Smokes or Crack. Really can this get ANY easier? Explore the game instead of whining.

However I know that making arguments for those who seek easy mode is pointless anyway.


Offline Eddie

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For me, the bravery system is just an easy way to train moral.

I guess the people complaining about it have not taken the time to try and understand it. And they probably don't understand combat stress value of armors.

For these people:
Use pirate outfit or warrior armor to avoid moral problems. Don't use rogue outfit.

Edit:
A few versions ago pirate was the default armor, and that was quite a good idea that I would reintroduce.
Meridian said it could easily be implemented to give additional items at gamestart on lower difficulties. I'd suggest adding a few warrior armors (2 - 4) and lots of uber clothing (for pirate outfit) to lower difficulties. If one wants to do even more handholding, uber clothing variants other than pirate could be locked behind a research to force the new player to equip pirate for his first few missions. Then he will hopefully notice that once he switches armors he will have problems with moral and understand it has to do with his armor selection.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 11:57:40 pm by Eddie »

Offline just_dont

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Piratez current bravery/morale system is in fact much less difficult (especially on higher game difficulties) than vanilla.
It gives certain (often counterable) penalties for stalling the combat, but at the same time -
1) It gives you much less panic waves, as long as you're not hand-picking your soldiers to have exactly the same low bravery stat. Different bravery values result in soldiers having quite different morale levels at any given time, and thus situations where all your soldiers are low on morale at the same time happen much less frequently.
2) It opens quite controllable ways to train bravery - such as having one coward soldier often panicking and forcing morale checks on other soldiers, thus getting them a chance to increase bravery. Or just plainly using high stress armors for an easy battle to get more morale checks.

Current system might be, in fact, a bit too favorable for the player :) But then again, enemies are using the same system, and it gives them #1 benefit too.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 12:58:00 am by just_dont »

Offline karadoc

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I think it's funny that one vague post spawned such a discussion about the bravery system, with the original author MIA without clarifying what they meant in the first place. And the implicit assumption in most of the discussion is that it's a harsh system. (At least in the first page of the thread.)

I'll just say that from my point of view, the bravery / moral system essentially does nothing. If I happen to have soldier with very low moral, then I might sometimes position them differently so that they don't shoot each other while hunting for the last couple of enemies; but in the vast majority of cases I just ignore moral. It has near zero effect on any of my missions. I can't remember the last time one of my soldiers got hurt or killed due to moral problems. It's just a total non-issue in its current state. Even when using things like combat drugs, which drop moral down very low, it's usually just 1 turn with some chance of panic (or 0 turns if you kill something on the same turn) - and then after that you're completely in the clear again. I personally wish that moral had _more_ of an effect.

Offline tylor

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Morale management plays big role when you use VooDoo heavily. But by then you usually know what you are doing

Offline legionof1

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IF voodoo is in play morale is a major factor otherwise it's not a real issue outside of mansion runs. Mansion runs can take a very long time even when doing well. 

Offline Starving Poet

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It literally isn't a big deal and there's so many ways to train bravery that it's like complaining that girls you hire don't start out with maxed out firing or melee accuracy. 

I get that I'm the kind of person that isn't interested in optimal gameplay, but come on.

Offline Absalom

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Never said the morale system was harsh or should be changed, just that it can be incredibly annoying on some early game maps when you can't find the enemy immediately.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Never said the morale system was harsh or should be changed, just that it can be incredibly annoying on some early game maps when you can't find the enemy immediately.

It's a very annoying mod. Actually, the entire X-Com is annoying, frustrating and sometimes even outright abusive to the player! I mean, Blaster Bombs? What's the big idea? :)