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Author Topic: Please tell me why OpenXcom is the best  (Read 24550 times)

Offline drages

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Re: Please tell me why OpenXcom is the best
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2016, 08:08:31 pm »
Hi people.

I am a huge X-Com fan who played original X-Com at Amiga-500.. you can imagine how old i am on this genre and specifically in this game.

Sadly, you don't have any info about Xenonauts development and you only talk about the default game, years ago. It's like comparing the default X-Com to openxcom.. You talk about that Xenonauts did not get any patch or mod for years.

Xenonauts got a modding/fixing community edition as XCE, some kind of openXcom for Xenonauts. Addition to softcoding and fixing, XCE adds many different aspects to the game modding like special unit spawing and random research changes. OpenXcom created for modding specially so it's normal to have more modding aspects then Xenonauts Community Edition.

With the support of XCE, Xenonauts got a huge mod named X-Division which nearly creates new game rather then a mod. The mod is about 5 GB for now and a 3.5 GB expansion is at development. This mod changed the game totally to make it an ultimate X-Com game with all the new aspects XCE created.

If you are interested:

Mod forum topic: https://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/index.php?/topic/13414-165xce-v0342-x-division-099-beta/&page=1

Forum Steam page: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=741289983&searchtext=

Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCtS8rPsZAKtG5e-gn5n_pQ

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Please tell me why OpenXcom is the best
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2016, 08:19:54 pm »
Thanks for sharing this mate, it's quite interesting.

BTW is it possible to make separate handobs for weapons now? Or do you still need to do every possible weapon/armour combination, all full frames? :D

Offline Matti

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Re: Please tell me why OpenXcom is the best
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2016, 08:59:47 pm »
Now you got me worked up on Xenonauts... I've been thinking about buying it for a long time, but the lack of destructible environment put me off. If the only thing going for it is the more modern graphics and sophisticated dogfight, I'll pass. Some more thoughts?
I have read the manuals and wiki. Xenonauts has similar cover system as in the XCOM (the new one). When XCOM has shield/half-shield for cover quality, Xenonauts has colours. Doors can be opened from the side. Characters (on all sides) can be suppressed with enough dakka (if it hits close) and/or flashbangs, and suppressed characters start their turn with less TU. Is anything of this in OpenXcom?

Community Edition is heavily modded version of the game, it is available on Steam, and even game devs recommend it (or so I've been told). Now back to the manual...

Offline drages

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Re: Please tell me why OpenXcom is the best
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2016, 09:05:05 pm »
Thanks for sharing this mate, it's quite interesting.

BTW is it possible to make separate handobs for weapons now? Or do you still need to do every possible weapon/armour combination, all full frames? :D

This is an engine issue. Game works with direct sprites as you described. Most of the problem and bugs comes with the engine sadly. As i am the 3D animator of the X-Division mod, i am creating the unit sprites by myself. Xenonauts shines with it's graphics, it has the best X-Com atmosphere with it's art style. For unit sprites, when you play the game with a HD resolution, the battlefield became large scale and units became more little. So you can see who got rifle and who got a HMG or shotgun, but not detailed way.. so any sprite with shotgun could be used for any shotgun u created..

Xenonauts is not a bug-free game, but even with a huge mod with some complex moding, you can play it without any problem from beginning to the end. But as i said before, the default game had problems with it's engine so this limited the devs so badly. But the code is open to the public for years and some great coders worked on the game with devs to fix as much as they can. Now the game got a community addition with nice mods comes with it, adding so much things without harming the default game feeling. And if you want a complicated experience, there is X-Division..

Offline Meridian

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Re: Please tell me why OpenXcom is the best
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2016, 09:14:43 pm »
Nice reading.
I think I'll give Xenonauts a second chance now.

Offline Matti

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Re: Please tell me why OpenXcom is the best
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2016, 09:27:51 pm »
drages, I just got through GameManual.pdf that comes with the game from Steam. Does Community Edition make significant changes to what is written in the manual? What about X-Division?

Offline Meridian

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Re: Please tell me why OpenXcom is the best
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2016, 09:44:18 pm »
I have read the manuals and wiki. Xenonauts has similar cover system as in the XCOM (the new one). When XCOM has shield/half-shield for cover quality, Xenonauts has colours. Doors can be opened from the side. Characters (on all sides) can be suppressed with enough dakka (if it hits close) and/or flashbangs, and suppressed characters start their turn with less TU. Is anything of this in OpenXcom?

1. yes, you can open doors from sides in OpenXcom too
2. yes, there are ways how to drain TUs from units on both sides in OpenXcom Extended... with enough imagination you can mod a weapon that does what you want (e.g. a flashbang)
3. OpenXcom of course has cover as well... it has no indicator of cover "quality"... but it could be added if anyone was interested... for me personally, it's a quite useless indicator... even a child can see what is full cover, partial cover or no cover

Offline drages

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Re: Please tell me why OpenXcom is the best
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2016, 11:15:01 pm »
Game manual got nothing about XCE. You can find every info about XCE and X-Division at https://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/. I can't explain tons of things already explained somewhere else.

Xenonauts systems are well as suppression, moral, covers and more. The problem is, you need to know exactly how they work. The key thing here, Xenonauts did not used tons of things it has at it's code. I mean there is damage types and resistances at the game code, but the default game did not use them. You can create many things with your imagination and right coding. There is very few information about tricky modding of this game and many codes are hidden/never used. I came late to xenonauts community when it was already late and many big modders left the game but after more then 1 year work and communication with XCE coders, my mod team and i know nearly anything about this game coding.

There is some unique things openxcom got, like different ammunition for same weapons. Sadly, xenonauts ammo code is beyond repair (or need a crazy dedicated coder).

But there are things that openxcom never have like a great, complicated and tactical airgame and A HD graphical approach with X-Com atmosphere. Xenonauts can have much more maybe but sadly we are very few people left. If we had people, as you have here, Xenonauts could be a new X-Com.. but the beginning did not take enough attention.

Xenonauts made a new generation X-Com clone but with limited power on a bad engine so i think it deserve the respect as same as openxcom. Even the story of the development of the xenonauts is a very sad one with many drawbacks in it. Now they are doing the 2. game with much dedicated and pro vision. But as X-Division mod team, we want this mod as a new game. If you check the additions and image/videos, you will see something totally different. Maybe even we can find some people here wanna help us too.. because this community is the best xcom modders..



Offline Starving Poet

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Re: Please tell me why OpenXcom is the best
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2016, 11:46:55 pm »
If the Xenonauts battlescape wasn't fundamentally broken, i think it might be a fun game - but at its core, it's fundamentally flawed.  Ignoring all the bugs - and I'm not going to get into XCE - the game, as delivered, is broken.

I respect that you enjoy the game, but Xenonauts is only comparably to X-Com in that it's isometric and uses time units - where, at its core, it's a 2D version of NuCom. 

Offline drages

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Re: Please tell me why OpenXcom is the best
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2016, 11:00:50 am »
If the Xenonauts battlescape wasn't fundamentally broken, i think it might be a fun game - but at its core, it's fundamentally flawed.  Ignoring all the bugs - and I'm not going to get into XCE - the game, as delivered, is broken.

I respect that you enjoy the game, but Xenonauts is only comparably to X-Com in that it's isometric and uses time units - where, at its core, it's a 2D version of NuCom.

I can see your hate and anger against xenonaut. I ddon'tknow why. Just saying broken is not so clear.

I am not only a player,  i am a modder for xxenonauts for 2 years. I ddon't know when u played that broken game last time but you are wrong about it. 

Offline scyt4l3

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Re: Please tell me why OpenXcom is the best
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2016, 01:39:42 pm »
Got Xenonauts on sale, played for an hour. Appealing aesthetically. Am i being blind and/or dumb or there is no way to cycle through your units and marking the last unit as "checked" (like, don't cycle back to that unit again)?

Offline Matti

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Re: Please tell me why OpenXcom is the best
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2016, 05:36:11 pm »
I played Xenonauts Community Edition (without Division-X or other downloaded mods) last night for 2 hours or so, normal difficulty. I shot down first scout UFO near Tel Aviv. Dropship had landed on a farm field. Fields were filled with hay bales of different sizes and shapes (at least 2 different machines to make them ???). There were some fences and equipment too. At center of the map was a house, surrounded by wooden walls, and farmer with a shotgun. That's nice. Well done map which leaves little for nitpicking. Except for one thing: some of the house's walls are invisible to player. Where's the door? Where are windows? Those are there, but I couldn't see them. If it happens again... Hey, I can load a save! Here we go. As you can see, movement path goes around the invisible wall and destination point is presumably by the window. Door we can see is NOT the front door but a door inside the house. Whatever is at front of that door is blocked by the invisible wall. What the Hell?

I had one casualty there. It was my own damn fault: I had spread my xenonauts all over the map and some were wandering alone without back up. And it had to be one of the lone 'nauts who found a sebillian with plasma rifle. He got shot, wounded, suppressed, and panicked. Of course I rushed other xenonauts to help, but too late: sebillians are tough cookies and less than handful of rifle shots didn't bring him down in time. Now when I think back, I could maybe have saved panicking soldier with a smoke grenade. UFO itself had one occupant. He opened the door, shot couple times (presumably with plasma pistol), then closed the door. I placed my sniper and machine gunner for overwatch the door, but they didn't do reaction fire. Manual explains the reason. When reaction fire check is made, game makes comparison of TU and RFL values of the units AND their equipped weapons. Weapons have Reaction Modifier, which dictates how well that weapon is suited for reaction fire. Pistol and shotgun are good for that, sniper rifle and machine gun are poor, assault rifle is average, and rocket launcher doesn't do reaction fire at all. Therefore gunslinger is likely to draw & shoot faster than sniper and machine gunner, and take cover before retaliation fire ensues. Therefore ideal door opener is a (wo)man with high TU and RFL, and a shotgun. Waittaminnit! Shotgun? Isn't sub-machine gun used for that role? Manual also says unit can be suppressed by shooting near of it, even though shots don't penetrate possible cover (like a wall or a door). I utterly forgot that when playing the game and machine gun didn't fire a shot.

Some other problems and points of interests I have noticed this far:
Picture of the F-17 in the game looks way off (compare to this)
Much of the salvaged & looted equipment are automatically sold off (good bye plasma rifles)
Selling the produced items doesn't make a profit (manual explains it as game balance measure)

Offline drages

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Re: Please tell me why OpenXcom is the best
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2016, 05:44:26 pm »
This is not a place for game bugs. This picture is a known bug came with final XCE mods. So if you disable/enable some mods, it gets fixed. The game auto sells the equipment you won't need.

You are a bit weird, Matte..




Offline Starving Poet

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Re: Please tell me why OpenXcom is the best
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2016, 08:22:16 pm »
I can see your hate and anger against xenonaut. I ddon'tknow why. Just saying broken is not so clear.

I am not only a player,  i am a modder for xxenonauts for 2 years. I ddon't know when u played that broken game last time but you are wrong about it.

Played about 120 hours of it last November - was still broken then.

Here's a short list:
*  Enemies outside of FoW didn't respact terrain obstacles.
*  SO. MANY. MAP. BUGS.  - That's the downside of an engine that isn't actually 3D, but 2D with dice-rolls.
*  Enemies changed AI routines based on player unit proximity, regardless of whether or not player unit was ever spotted.
*  Enemies had access to too much information:
  *  AI is aware of player unit FoV regardless of whether player units have ever been spotted.
  *  AI is aware of player unit reaction ability, often walking past units it knows can't react to shoot someone outside of its visible range.
*  Everything related to enemy PSI - especially Dread.  Dread might be the worst game design decision I have ever come across in my near 40 years of gaming.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2016, 09:12:15 pm by Starving Poet »

Offline Matti

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Re: Please tell me why OpenXcom is the best
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2017, 12:02:17 am »
This is not a place for game bugs.
Still it could be point of interest to those reading this topic.

Quote
This picture is a known bug came with final XCE mods. So if you disable/enable some mods, it gets fixed.
Found it and enabled it.

Quote
The game auto sells the equipment you won't need.
So I don't need plasma weapons? Or those just can't be used until they are researched?