Suggestion: 3 ideas which may be workable

[Ewokgod]

First, I wonder if it is worth asking for all firearms to be disassemblable... disassembleble... capable of being broken up for parts?
If the game allowed this, then rather than have to store obsolete weapons because they might become useful in the workshop later, break them up and store the bits.
Need 5 autopistols for a workshop recipe? No problem, just have 10 Pistol Parts and 5 Gun Parts in the vault instead. This may have been suggested before, if so, sorry. I forgot to check.

Second, I love the way that certain weapons get a power boost depending on user stats. Since what we have there is the weapon power being controlled by something that is not inherent in the weapon itself, is it possible to have the game allow a more freeform way of manufacturing firearms. I am thinking of "get x heavy shotguns, weld them together, power (and weight) for that particular gun is (damage times x number of barrels)."
 I dunno if this is possible, it might involve the game adding weapons to the master list on the fly, but I can see the gals personalising weapons from the stock, giving them names and so on.

Third, last and easiest. Volley revolvers and ducks feet. Before proper mechanisms for rapid fire, gun makers just added more barrels which the user could fire singly or all at once. I can definitely see Derringers, ducks feet and volley revolvers fitting in as one step upgrades to the small revolver, flintlock pistol and 6-shooter.

p.s. Please do not take these suggestions as any sort of criticism of the mod. I really admire the work that has gone into it and feel bad about asking for more

[Solarius Scorch]

Well, I'm not the author or anything, but according to my knowledge/impression:

First, I wonder if it is worth asking for all firearms to be disassemblable... disassembleble... capable of being broken up for parts?

If the game allowed this, then rather than have to store obsolete weapons because they might become useful in the workshop later, break them up and store the bits.
Need 5 autopistols for a workshop recipe? No problem, just have 10 Pistol Parts and 5 Gun Parts in the vault instead. This may have been suggested before, if so, sorry. I forgot to check.

Techncally it's possible to have all weapons dissam- dismassemb- DAMMIT! - takenable apart. But it would be a lot of work to code. And besides, I have serious concerns about it being a pain in the ass for the player. You're not the first one to have this idea, and it just never gained enough credibility I guess.

Second, I love the way that certain weapons get a power boost depending on user stats. Since what we have there is the weapon power being controlled by something that is not inherent in the weapon itself, is it possible to have the game allow a more freeform way of manufacturing firearms. I am thinking of "get x heavy shotguns, weld them together, power (and weight) for that particular gun is (damage times x number of barrels)."
 I dunno if this is possible, it might involve the game adding weapons to the master list on the fly, but I can see the gals personalising weapons from the stock, giving them names and so on.

Unfortunately not possible with OpenX-Com engine. Every item in the game must be coded as a whole, and their IDs are directly related to names - so no renaming. It would be cool though.

Third, last and easiest. Volley revolvers and ducks feet. Before proper mechanisms for rapid fire, gun makers just added more barrels which the user could fire singly or all at once. I can definitely see Derringers, ducks feet and volley revolvers fitting in as one step upgrades to the small revolver, flintlock pistol and 6-shooter.

I'm not sure what else we can have beyond the sawed-off, the blunderbuss and the ballista. Can you describe in detail what your idea is, mechanics-wise?

[legionof1]

in mechanical terms hes talking about something akin to the clockwork gun but with all fire modes, built off the lower end hand guns.

One of technological middle ground solutions between a flintlock and modern magazine arms was to have multiple loaded barrels. Besides shotguns it was pretty much only used on low caliber pistols for reasons of weight and accuracy problems resulting from the divergent aim points of the barrels.   

[Solarius Scorch]

in mechanical terms hes talking about something akin to the clockwork gun but with all fire modes, built off the lower end hand guns.

One of technological middle ground solutions between a flintlock and modern magazine arms was to have multiple loaded barrels. Besides shotguns it was pretty much only used on low caliber pistols for reasons of weight and accuracy problems resulting from the divergent aim points of the barrels.   

Yes, but is there a niche for such weapons? I'm not saying there's not, but weapons like the clockwork gun are barely used anyway, because by that point you have better things.

[legionof1]

It's a nitch I would use. A small auxiliary arm that could in a pinch unload its entire clip for alot of potential dmg has function in close quarters. Sounds useful for snipers and support troops that otherwise have inventory or hand limitations and by there job/outfit are less proficient in melee

2x1, low clip size(4-6), all fire modes, high accuracy with awful range and increased range penalties, 25-30 damage and around 6-8 weight unloaded. 

[ohartenstein23]

2x1, low clip size(4-6), all fire modes, high accuracy with awful range and increased range penalties, 25-30 damage and around 6-8 weight unloaded. 

With those numbers, sounds like you should really try the Ripper (pocket chainsaw) or just wait until mini-cougar SMG.  The issue is finding a gun early that does that, although the spikey SMG comes close.

[Dioxine]

1. Considering to add this at some point, yes, but it might be easier to just make all weapons buyable at some point in the game...

2. Impossible since all weapons must be pre-programmed. Feel free to write a mod, if the weapons are cool, they will be integrated

3. Good idea, added to the list. See 2) for faster implementation. Has to be balanced vs. the SMG, tho.

[legionof1]

With those numbers, sounds like you should really try the Ripper (pocket chainsaw) or just wait until mini-cougar SMG.  The issue is finding a gun early that does that, although the spikey SMG comes close.

Both of your mentions are good options but the ripper is dependent on a limited resource(rare earths) that is also needed for power armor,plate mail and a number of other things. The mini-cougar is the penultimate of the light peirceing sidearms and we are after something only a step above low end pistols, in that it has higher stopping power and significant burst, balanced by bad ammo count and utterly bad range.

[Ewokgod]

I'm not sure what else we can have beyond the sawed-off, the blunderbuss and the ballista. Can you describe in detail what your idea is, mechanics-wise?

Well, the Blunderbuss, as far as I can tell from the Bootypedia, is a 4 barrelled shotgun that allows the user to fire all the loaded barrels at once (as Autofire).

The Nock gun,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nock_gun
for example, might be implemented as a 7-barrel gun firing musket balls in auto only, or as a one shot per reload 7x40 shotgun, v.slow reload in both cases.

On this page,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volley_gun
about half-way down, you can see a 3-barrel pistol which could be implemented as a 3 round clip, Aim/Snap/3ShotAuto, or a one round clip 3x40 shotgun, with musketball ammo.

Trying to find a decent page for the duck's foot, but Google Image search pulls out some good pics. 4 round clip, Auto only, or one round clip 4x40 shotgun, with musketball ammo.

I'd go on, but I just found the page for the Punt gun and I am trying to work up enough cheek to suggest implementing that

Sidenote: If I may say, all these guns above would also be capable of using the Minie bullets with some tinkering. This is where I really show my ignorance of the Open-Xcom engine.

If... The Flintlock Rifle was, instead of a completely new gun, a rebored Musket (similar to how a Hunting Rifle becomes a Scoped Rifle with Tinkering) because Tinkering allowed you to rifle the barrel, then all these guns could be side-graded to use Minie Bullets for some benefit (better accuracy maybe? Don't want to overbalance the game by setting a value here).

[Solarius Scorch]

The Nock gun,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nock_gun
for example, might be implemented as a 7-barrel gun firing musket balls in auto only, or as a one shot per reload 7x40 shotgun, v.slow reload in both cases.

Not a bad idea - extreme, but workable. It'd require very high Strength!

Unfortunately it can't use standard musket balls, as they come in threes, not sevens.

On this page,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volley_gun
about half-way down, you can see a 3-barrel pistol which could be implemented as a 3 round clip, Aim/Snap/3ShotAuto, or a one round clip 3x40 shotgun, with musketball ammo.

...right, so we're on the same page. Yes, why not, with similar Strength restrictions.

Trying to find a decent page for the duck's foot, but Google Image search pulls out some good pics. 4 round clip, Auto only, or one round clip 4x40 shotgun, with musketball ammo.

Yes, I know what a duck foot is, but in X-Com mechanics, it's practically a shotgun with spread... Hence my question before.

I'd go on, but I just found the page for the Punt gun and I am trying to work up enough cheek to suggest implementing that

Implement it yourself, we'll help

Sidenote: If I may say, all these guns above would also be capable of using the Minie bullets with some tinkering. This is where I really show my ignorance of the Open-Xcom engine.

If... The Flintlock Rifle was, instead of a completely new gun, a rebored Musket (similar to how a Hunting Rifle becomes a Scoped Rifle with Tinkering) because Tinkering allowed you to rifle the barrel, then all these guns could be side-graded to use Minie Bullets for some benefit (better accuracy maybe? Don't want to overbalance the game by setting a value here).

Makes sense.

[Ewokgod]

My problem is that I am trying to work out from basic principles what it is that the game engine allows, and I am wondering if I am just putting out a few ideas that might be cool just for the sake of cool (ie, not adding anything to the game). I mean, adding these would allow the early weapons and ammo types an extended lifespan, it is up to players and Dioxine if that is good or necessary.

Can you please link me some tutorials so that I can look at the game mechanics better. There are some areas where I just am not sure of what is possible. For example, I believe that accuracy is controlled by the user stat, modified by the weapon. Ammo choice does not come into it, right? (ie, better quality bullets do not make the gun more accurate).

Not a bad idea - extreme, but workable. It'd require very high Strength!

Unfortunately it can't use standard musket balls, as they come in threes, not sevens.

...right, so we're on the same page. Yes, why not, with similar Strength restrictions.

As far as I can tell, the Strength restrictions would appear in game as (Strength improves accuracy) and the weight of the weapon itself. I just restarted my latest game so my Bootypedia is very empty. I remember reading that some guns cause damage/stun damage to the user on firing? This effect would be appropriate here.

[ohartenstein23]

No real modding tutorials exist, but you should look at this wiki article and this document to see what's possible without writing engine edits.  Also look at the files in the Ruleset folder of the mod to see how items are defined for mechanics you like.  That's usually the way to learn around here - copying things you like from mods and experimenting with rulesets.

To answer the other questions, ammo does not affect accuracy, but pellet spread for shotguns is a parameter defined on an ammo item.

For costing stun damage to use, the definition would look something like this:

Code: [Select]

items:
  - type: STR_NAMEOFITEM
    costSnap:
      tu: 30 # 30% TUs to snap shot
      stun: 5 # 5 stun damage on snap
# and continue with the rest of the item definition


[stepbystep]

it would be a lot of work to code.

Would it be correct to say that the openxcom engine is not really meant for a game which has a strong "crafting" component?
> I'm using the word "crafting" in the sense of: a system which involves complex multi-step recipies by which you combine materials into products.

I mean yes, you can do it, (dioxine and others have accomplished that in a pretty amazing way), but it seems a real pain to go through all those definitions where you have to redefine a lot of things.

IMHO an engine (or modding language) specifically geared toward crafting should allow for:

• categorization
• inheritance (MATERIAL_WOOD defines the property "flammable", MATERIAL_PINE is in the MATERIAL_WOOD category and therefore inherits the "flammable" property)
• the option to use categories in recipies instead of specific items (GUN_STOCK is made of HARD_MUNDANE_MATERIAL so every item in the category MATERIAL_WOOD, MATERIAL_BONE, MATERIAL_PLASTIC can be used)
• the option to use categories for defining (for example) ammo types (9MM_GUN extends HAND_GUN and uses 9MM_GUN_AMMO. When defining 9MM_EXP_GUN_AMMO place it into the 9MM_GUN_AMMO and voilà, every weapon that extends from 9MM_GUN can use 9MM_EXP_GUN_AMMO)
• Maybe even a way of defining workshop "transformations" (generalized term for construction, deconstruction, more?) as part of item definition so that those too can be inherited/extended.

If I'm not mistaken Dwarf Fortress works more or less that way.

BUT!

That's another game...
...had fun talking about it though.

[Meridian]

Categorization and single-property inheritance are possible, vector-property inheritance is limited.
Categories instead of items in recipes is not possible.... unless you abstract all the way to "money"... which is a great idea, I recommend it.
Categories for ammo types is limited the same way as vector-property inheritance.
Transformations are not possible, but -- going back to "real pain of definition" -- could be done by creating a Definition GUI one abstraction level higher, which would generate all the necessary ruleset.

Having said all that... I'm against all of it

[khade]

Isn't the 3 barrel pistol basically a clockwork gun? you can fire one shot at a time or all shots at once.  I can't remember if it has aimed shot or just snap and auto.