Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste

[mumble]

I feel a little warry bringing this up, but I will none the less

I feel the picture for aretha miller and frank smith is ill fitting for exalt

Exalt is a long established, highly wealthy, american based movement with heavy southern influence, and a mostly white population, as far as I can tell

These vibes makes me think it wouldn't be super friendly to blacks, to be honest. Maybe not the to the point of discluding them entirely, but if this group REMOTELY had any white supremacist vibes, or just dislike of blacks in general, I think having a black man / white woman pairing would be nonsense. After all, the exalt soldiers all seem to be white, yet they show a black man? This wouldn't seem good for unit cohesion at all, since propaganda should apply to the lowest common denominator. Any time you deal with propaganda, promotion, you go for what will reach the FARTHEST, which typically means relies on being as relatable as possible : race, origin, religion, world views, ect, so your message will be more effective. And race, while not insurmountable, is certainly a BIG part of propaganda. You don't gauge a message to one race with another races face if you REALLY want to push an idea out, as the racial difference will make the idea less effective...and you cannot tell me you cannot find a white couple anywhere else in exalt who performs the same. It boggles my mind a propaganda target would intentionally include unrelatable factors which could cause division..

Any chance you can change this?  I feel odd bringing it up, but I've felt far more weird seeing that for a VERY long time : a rich, highly successful southern based group with a white majority doesn't seem like it would use a black man as a promotional material, in any universe, as relatability is damaged by racial differences. Its not ultra huge, but the more I think about it, the more it makes me wonder why exalt would pick explicitly an interracial pairing for a majority white group....it simply does not add up, and it always seems like something extremely out of place.

For a change, perhaps leon and the girl from the professional?...

[tkzv]

How does line of sight calculation work for windows with bars? The agent is standing right in front of the window, the enemy is clearly visible, yet I keep getting "No Line of Fire". First person view shows that the enemies are not obscured.

[ohartenstein23]

How does line of sight calculation work for windows with bars? The agent is standing right in front of the window, the enemy is clearly visible, yet I keep getting "No Line of Fire". First person view shows that the enemies are not obscured.

Line of Sight and Line of Fire are drawn from different spots on the soldier, head vs. center.  Most likely there' a single voxel blocking the line of fire.  You could try force-firing, as sometimes around fences and such you actually could have a clear shot.

[mumble]

As far as I can tell, fences and such are a "chance to block", per block (I'm probably wrong), and extreme angles in particular make it difficult. LOS doesn't always mean a shot cannot be hit, as the shot calculation doesn't account for shots being slightly off and still hitting : this is why a 30% shot point blank always hits, because all the shots that "miss" the intended target (middle of the chest for instance) will still hit unintended areas (such as shoulders, sides, stomach, head, ect)

Same principle applies for targets past bars : the targets center mass might be blocked by a steel bar, or chainlinks, but shooting might still hit them in the shoulder, or kidney.

So just try forcing a shot, see if it works or not. Crouching also sometimes helps, but hitboxes for bars is always just finicky.

Also, I really would like the whole dossier image issue at least commented on : it seems so very out of place, and I've felt this for a while, but just never had the nerve to comment on it.

[Solarius Scorch]

Exalt is a long established, highly wealthy, american based movement with heavy southern influence, and a mostly white population, as far as I can tell

Well I'm not going to make another organization of black Americans, if the rest of the world only has 3.

But good point about lack of skin variation in Exalt, I'll look into this.

[PvtHopscotch]

I'm not sure if I'm encountering a bug in some of the maps or a mechanic that I'm just not getting.

I've been experiencing maps that have sections completely blocked off from access. I've only encountered it in the Cyberweb Sewer maps and the Undead Catacombs but that's also all the further I've gotten. Usually it's been the case that my spawn area/room is blocked off from the rest of the map, forcing me to reload a geoscape save before the mission popped. Most recent however is a inaccessible section in an undead catacombs map, containing the last few enemies.

Again, if this is intentional and I'm missing something I apologize but I've detonated about 2-3 shit-tons of High-Explosives trying to breach them so I figured I'd check.

[Solarius Scorch]

I'm not sure if I'm encountering a bug in some of the maps or a mechanic that I'm just not getting.

I've been experiencing maps that have sections completely blocked off from access. I've only encountered it in the Cyberweb Sewer maps and the Undead Catacombs but that's also all the further I've gotten. Usually it's been the case that my spawn area/room is blocked off from the rest of the map, forcing me to reload a geoscape save before the mission popped. Most recent however is a inaccessible section in an undead catacombs map, containing the last few enemies.

Again, if this is intentional and I'm missing something I apologize but I've detonated about 2-3 shit-tons of High-Explosives trying to breach them so I figured I'd check.

You are right, this happens sometimes. But preventing it would 1) be much work, 2) decrease map variety. I suggest bringing explosives, since blocked off areas are kind of justified on these missions.

[PvtHopscotch]

... I suggest bringing explosives, since blocked off areas are kind of justified on these missions.

So I can breach through those thick walls? I ask because that smoke in the left side of the first screenshot is the result of all 10 of my High Explosives I brought with me and it didn't do anything to the wall. Do the cave/catacomb walls just require more bang than I'm bringing?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, I just haven't been able to make a dent in these situations so I wanted to double check.

[mumble]

I wasn't suggesting a black group, I was merely suggesting a picture change. This is a SINGLE part of an otherwise sensible construct I have an issue with, and I think reworking a token black guy exalt troop would be far dumber than just changing it. Infact, I really hope you DON'T go for trying to diversify exalt more by adding more token black guys.  It would just seem weirder that way.

Though we COULD make a cult for africa... Last continental area not having a cult.

[tkzv]

You are right, this happens sometimes. But preventing it would 1) be much work, 2) decrease map variety. I suggest bringing explosives, since blocked off areas are kind of justified on these missions.

Can a sledgehammer break those walls?

[mumble]

Sledgehammer targeting walls involves a bullet attack, which presents the following problems

1, sledge hammer can then fire long distances like a rifle.
2. CQC ends up throwing off swings

I want melee that can target cells too, but currently its not possible without some pretty hefty changes on the end of OXC+, like allowing melee to target specific cells while not being classified as gunfire, and a TRUE limited range, not just dropping to 0 when going past 1 cell

I've honestly not encountered any situations with unaccessable rooms, but I do agree that high explosives should be able to help. But I will say this, missions with any BIG importance should make sure this never happens.

[Solarius Scorch]

So I can breach through those thick walls? I ask because that smoke in the left side of the first screenshot is the result of all 10 of my High Explosives I brought with me and it didn't do anything to the wall. Do the cave/catacomb walls just require more bang than I'm bringing?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, I just haven't been able to make a dent in these situations so I wanted to double check.

A few days ago Dioxine made a weaker walls version of the Catacombs, which I have added. Therefore this problem should vanish soon.

I wasn't suggesting a black group, I was merely suggesting a picture change. This is a SINGLE part of an otherwise sensible construct I have an issue with, and I think reworking a token black guy exalt troop would be far dumber than just changing it. Infact, I really hope you DON'T go for trying to diversify exalt more by adding more token black guys.  It would just seem weirder that way.

To be honest I don't really understand... I've never tried for a white supremacist faction. If EXALT turned out to be one, it wasn't intended. If you think it's cool, we could go with that, but I think it might be a bit anvilicious. Besides, I don't know the subject all that well.

Though we COULD make a cult for africa... Last continental area not having a cult.

Church of Dagon is there. It would be hard to have jungle pyramids in Scotland.

[mumble]

no no, I'm not trying to say they ARE white supremacist, but merely, I find it kind of WEIRD that a group entirely of white men would promote a black man screwing a white / asian looking girl (the fuck race is zoey anyway?) to promote themselves.

As I said, propaganda is about reliatability and swaying emotions, and its harder to use someone to promote someone to fight and die for something if you have fewer things to relate to, especially with something as intimate as a "romantic image". Kinda hard to self project yourself into the image of such romance if you are not black yourself, thus making the propaganda less effective

no, its not that I view it as white supremacist, its that others would view what I just SAID as "white supremacist" if they are of the liberal persuasion . But its a biological fact that people tend to gravitate to their own "kin", hence why I find the whole dossier whacky.

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Church of dagon is specifically "Mediterranean". And last I checked, bosnia had a pyramid in EXACTLY the setting your map is in. (maybe not quite a jungle, but close). And other pyramids exist in europe. http://world-pyramids.com/en/world-pyramids/europe/#.WdCgwMZryaE

Areas like the congo, and Saharan africa in general (IE, the majority of africa) aren't entirely represented, and dagon I think would more intensely represent european values of sea-faring, and other elements. Even for Africans pyramids, colonization of africa would enable these activities relatively easily.

And beyond this, every area of the world (north america, south america/central america, asia, europe) has their own representations at this point, yet africa so far does not. Not saying you specifically need it, I don't really care, but I would hesitate to call them of "African origin" because they simply use pyramids in Africa every few months...

And beyond that, pyramids in a jungle is kinda the carraige before the horse, the origin was sea faring places, with medeteranian, and European / gothic influences, so to say they are suddenly african is highly confusing.

besides, doesn't scotland have the whole lore about loc ness? I figure this would be a perfect breeding ground for propaganda of dagon .

[Solarius Scorch]

no no, I'm not trying to say they ARE white supremacist, but merely, I find it kind of WEIRD that a group entirely of white men would promote a black man screwing a white / asian looking girl (the fuck race is zoey anyway?) to promote themselves.

As I said, propaganda is about reliatability and swaying emotions, and its harder to use someone to promote someone to fight and die for something if you have fewer things to relate to, especially with something as intimate as a "romantic image". Kinda hard to self project yourself into the image of such romance if you are not black yourself, thus making the propaganda less effective

no, its not that I view it as white supremacist, its that others would view what I just SAID as "white supremacist" if they are of the liberal persuasion . But its a biological fact that people tend to gravitate to their own "kin", hence why I find the whole dossier whacky.

Sorry Mumble, I'm trying to follow, but still don't get it.

First of all, who said EXALT was "a group entirely of white men"? Certainly not I. I never thought of it that way.
And even if it was, I don't get why it would matter to them what colour their stars are. It's just a WTF moment to me. I don't get your point at all.

"As I said, propaganda is about reliatability and swaying emotions, and its harder to use someone to promote someone to fight and die for something if you have fewer things to relate to, especially with something as intimate as a "romantic image". Kinda hard to self project yourself into the image of such romance if you are not black yourself, thus making the propaganda less effective" - WAT???

"no, its not that I view it as white supremacist, its that others would view what I just SAID as "white supremacist" if they are of the liberal persuasion . But its a biological fact that people tend to gravitate to their own "kin", hence why I find the whole dossier whacky." This is som heavy US-specific stuff thast I know little about. Nor do I care, because EZALT is not a US organization anyway; it's an American organization. Right down to the Patagonia.

Church of dagon is specifically "Mediterranean". And last I checked, bosnia had a pyramid in EXACTLY the setting your map is in. (maybe not quite a jungle, but close). And other pyramids exist in europe. http://world-pyramids.com/en/world-pyramids/europe/#.WdCgwMZryaE

Areas like the congo, and Saharan africa in general (IE, the majority of africa) aren't entirely represented, and dagon I think would more intensely represent european values of sea-faring, and other elements. Even for Africans pyramids, colonization of africa would enable these activities relatively easily.

And beyond this, every area of the world (north america, south america/central america, asia, europe) has their own representations at this point, yet africa so far does not. Not saying you specifically need it, I don't really care, but I would hesitate to call them of "African origin" because they simply use pyramids in Africa every few months...

And beyond that, pyramids in a jungle is kinda the carraige before the horse, the origin was sea faring places, with medeteranian, and European / gothic influences, so to say they are suddenly african is highly confusing.

besides, doesn't scotland have the whole lore about loc ness? I figure this would be a perfect breeding ground for propaganda of dagon .

These are all valid points. Maybe another, African faction will emerge one day. But for now I have my hands full.

[mumble]

I'm just saying for propaganda, you use the lowest common denominator to make it relatable to make it effective. Exalt  certainly seems to have southern influence, and is majority white, so I just doubt they would choose to promote an interacial couple with a black man being with a white man, to a majority (I think) white force : especially if the intention is to promote fertility and unity, this element would be ineffective in doing so, unless they were trying to PROMOTE such relationships, in which case, why?

Its not like exalt is exactly small... I figure they could find another posterboy for their movement with the same qualifications.

Perhaps I'm overthinking it, but especially with possible cultural / racial tension aspects involved, it just would be bad for unit cohesion.

Perhaps exalt ISN'T entirely white, but with the paxton dossier involving a rich, southern looking guy, and other elements, I cannot help but think its a majority from the information provided in game, which then makes me ask, why this specific couple? You wouldn't see an indian man as a promotional postor for the Chinese army, because the Chinese would be confused by the difference : china is majority Chinese, and promoting someone who isn't for someone who is a majority 1 type  of person seems extremely strange for promoting something, unless its part of a secondary objective.

Another thing to keep in mind, is criminal enterprises often don't care about being "polite", so stuff like sexual harassment, assault, racism, ect, while it might otherwise be the tip of peoples tongues in some circumstances for your average law abiding joe, a person who breaks the law all the time has no reason to conform to law and social etiquette anyway : which sort of makes me think there WOULD be a higher rate of xenophobia / racism among ALL these groups, to be completely honest. Criminal enterprises are not exactly equal opportunity employers, nor is there repercussions for such behaviors. Infact a majority of criminal enterprises who are successful are typically racially segregated (MS13 is latino, italian mafia is italian, triad is Chinese) so I often wonder then, especially with a detectable race distribution of entirely white, why a criminal enterprise would CHOOSE to promote a black / white couple...it just.....Seems weird. Who would choose to make them the face of exalt? Why?

Anyway, if you aren't going to change it, I'm just going to leave it. I've said all I think I can, at this point, and still think its a bit weird to picture that for such a group, but if you won't change it, I doubt anything else I say will influence it.

...I suppose I'm also looking at the racial tension element of it, its always been a bit shakey in America, but recently in particular its been absolutely shit.