Bugs, crashes, typos & bad taste

[dmitryme]

I've found that on "Vampire Castle" map your stuff, which is not on agents, is placed outside the entrance zone. If you decide to escape from the mission, you loose all your things. Not sure if it happens always, so far I see it on the only one map I've checked. I've attached a save with repro. When loaded, seek agent Okoth Serry near the entrance zone, he is standing right on top of the pile. I've avoided the equipment loss by manually transporting it to the zone, but that is slow and painful :-)

Also an unrelated possible minor bug: at the start of the campaign Uefopedia -> Martial Techniques contains page Holodevice. I think this thing does not exist, or at least I do not know where to find or research it in game.

[psavola]

I just got a Military Anti-Monster Operation (against zombies, including vampire knights) in a desert locale. The strange thing was that there was zero military personnel (or any other than the enemy units, about 65 total) present, even though they are defined in the rulesets.

This can be reproduced with New Battle. Apparently, "Downed Ufo" (which has the military) and Police Anti-Monster Operation have similar rulesets and seem to work fine.

The only thing I could speculate is that Military anti-monster operation has quite a bit larger number of enemy units (in SH 60+ instead of 40+ of Police mission). Maybe this could be causing some problem, for example regarding spawn points?

BTW. Researching Vampire Knight requires Zombie Interrogated, including tomb guardians, strix, and the vampire queen. However, you cannot research the queen before you have researched the knight. I'd suggest removing the queen from Zombie Interrogated for clarity, as the condition can never be met. Likewise, Vampire Knight should be removed from "Zombie Servitor", because you cannot research Vampire Knight before you have already obtained one of the three "Zombie interrogated" units (strix, tomb guardians) which also unlock Zombie Servitor. While these aren't really a problem, they will give misleading information on the actual dependencies and to keep things simple should IMO be avoided.

[Juku121]

This can be reproduced with New Battle.

Can't reproduce, see attachment. Tried the other desert (Desert 1), too.

Although the spawn patterns do look strange. Perhaps there's a small subset of desert blocks that have spawn points, and if these aren't present, you can run out? Although 'difficultydemigod: true' is supposed to mitigate this, so it'd be quite curious even then. And if it doesn't, then we have the downside of no randomised enemy numbers without the upside of unlimited spawn points.

Unless you're playing with 'difficultydemigod' off?

[Solarius Scorch]

@Aciruk: Can't reproduce either.

Red Dawn HQ research text is slightly inaccurate: "Here's the plan: we should locate Red Dawn's main base, located somewhere in Siberia, and snatch all personal data we can find. (...)

That's right, I forgot to update this string after redoing the mission zones. Irismono's "within the Arctic Circle" works fine.

Not sure if it was already mentioned but the Prowler suits backpack inventory screen looks a little strange.

This has already been fixed, thanks.

There is no backpack inventory so not even sure why those 3 boxes are there, nothing can be placed into them.

Hmm, works for me.

Try the GitHub version maybe?

While I'm on nitpicking, I observe that Osiron Hacienda has a number of Capos armed with RPG launcher. The weird thing is that they only have anti-tank rockets. And because the hacienda is located in jungle terrain, attacking it with a tank is not feasible, and the Osiron should know it. I suppose they would be more fearsome if they had regular rockets.

Tanks are not the only thing you need AT rockets for; these guys want to have a chance against powered suits and battle robots. (Well, I want them to have it, too.)

I've found that on "Vampire Castle" map your stuff, which is not on agents, is placed outside the entrance zone. If you decide to escape from the mission, you loose all your things. Not sure if it happens always, so far I see it on the only one map I've checked. I've attached a save with repro. When loaded, seek agent Okoth Serry near the entrance zone, he is standing right on top of the pile. I've avoided the equipment loss by manually transporting it to the zone, but that is slow and painful :-)

I am aware of the problem, but I have no bloody idea why it happens, sorry. The map block looks to be VAMPCASTLE_30_SOL and there is no spawn node there...

Also an unrelated possible minor bug: at the start of the campaign Uefopedia -> Martial Techniques contains page Holodevice. I think this thing does not exist, or at least I do not know where to find or research it in game.

Yeah, it was fixed just after 3.3 went live. It was harmless, so I didn't bother with a re-release.

The only thing I could speculate is that Military anti-monster operation has quite a bit larger number of enemy units (in SH 60+ instead of 40+ of Police mission). Maybe this could be causing some problem, for example regarding spawn points?

Haven't seen it, but I guess that's possible. Wouldn't think it's a huge problem though, maybe they just ran away? (That would be a smart thing to do.)

BTW. Researching Vampire Knight requires Zombie Interrogated, including tomb guardians, strix, and the vampire queen. However, you cannot research the queen before you have researched the knight. I'd suggest removing the queen from Zombie Interrogated for clarity, as the condition can never be met. Likewise, Vampire Knight should be removed from "Zombie Servitor", because you cannot research Vampire Knight before you have already obtained one of the three "Zombie interrogated" units (strix, tomb guardians) which also unlock Zombie Servitor. While these aren't really a problem, they will give misleading information on the actual dependencies and to keep things simple should IMO be avoided.

"Misleading information" assumes that the player is supposed to rely on the tech tree viewer, whereas it's never been intended. It's essentially a cheat. If you want to use it, no problem, but you worry about how to do it properly.

Besides, there are many such cases in the tech tree. They are there for a reason, not to produce garbage lines.

[Chuckebaby]

This has already been fixed, thanks.

My bad.

Thanks

[Solarius Scorch]

My bad.

Definitely not, it's my bad...

[psavola]

Can't reproduce, see attachment. Tried the other desert (Desert 1), too.

Although the spawn patterns do look strange. Perhaps there's a small subset of desert blocks that have spawn points, and if these aren't present, you can run out? Although 'difficultydemigod: true' is supposed to mitigate this, so it'd be quite curious even then. And if it doesn't, then we have the downside of no randomised enemy numbers without the upside of unlimited spawn points.

There appears to be a degree of randomness to it. Apparently, the maps generated from a specific terrain can also be very different (for example, some desert maps are desert while there also also more village blocks mixed in). I tried New Battle a dozen or more times got this situation at least once in Mountains and Desert 1 terrain. I didn't try all of these. Here's a save, if it's of any use in pinpointing the issue.

I now suspect this may have something to do with which mapblocks are used to randomize a map.

[psavola]

"Misleading information" assumes that the player is supposed to rely on the tech tree viewer, whereas it's never been intended. It's essentially a cheat. If you want to use it, no problem, but you worry about how to do it properly.

Besides, there are many such cases in the tech tree. They are there for a reason, not to produce garbage lines.

I'm very skeptical that any significant number of people feel the same way about research.

If you feel that tech tree viewer is essentially a cheat, is middle mouse buttoning your research topics also essentially a cheat? If not, why not, because that also uses TTV and you can click forward or backward to topics you wouldn't have access to yet.

What you're advocating is that people are expected to fumble around, researching topics with the fanciest project names (the only information available to the user without tech tree viewer) and not even knowing how much effort they need to put into it (because even the relative size of the research project is gated through the tech tree viewer). This seems like a fallacy.

[Juku121]

Well, that's how it was in the OG.

Making a compellingly 'uncertain' research mechanic has been something many games have struggled with. X-Com is no exception.

I gather that 'blind' research is the intended 'pure' experience, even if most people don't play it like that. Kinda like ironman, come to think of it.

[Stone Lake]

Well, browing tech three or wiki sounds like metagaming, which is a kind of cheating. Nuff said.

Buuut, I wouldn't recommend fully "blind" XCF experience to anyone. E.g. 1) History: Xenonauts -> Armored vest. Huh? I understand the shield, but the vest itself? 2) Eth commander.

[Mathel]

Typo in "Sniper/Spotter Cooperation" article
"rely" is used instead of "relay"

And a bit of weirdness. I got the Old Crop Circles event on 31.12.1996, second day in the game.
Not much of a cause for concern, with only -33 points, but still weird that I am blamed for something that must have happened before I was put in charge.

[Juku121]

Big Bosses always get blamed for what their predecessors did.

[Mathel]

And more event weirdness.
On 11.1.1997 I got Money Prize Event, giving me $200 000 and -50 for "excellent results".

So far, I captured 2 cultists and 2 farmers (with no interrogations so far), killed 4 cultists, and had one agent eaten by a giant ape (Mongorn). I would not call that excellent results.

[Solarius Scorch]

I'm very skeptical that any significant number of people feel the same way about research.

Even if nobody else thinks so, that's still a fact. This is literally how it is.

If you feel that tech tree viewer is essentially a cheat, is middle mouse buttoning your research topics also essentially a cheat?

Sure it is. I'm not saing it's wrong to use it, but it is a cheat, yes. At least I think so.

What you're advocating is that people are expected to fumble around, researching topics with the fanciest project names (the only information available to the user without tech tree viewer) and not even knowing how much effort they need to put into it (because even the relative size of the research project is gated through the tech tree viewer). This seems like a fallacy.

Why? That's how games work. That's how I play them anyway (unless they get too hard for me; then I cheat, which is what we're discussing here).

The game is called "UFO: Enemy Unknown" after all.

Well, browing tech three or wiki sounds like metagaming, which is a kind of cheating. Nuff said.

Buuut, I wouldn't recommend fully "blind" XCF experience to anyone. E.g. 1) History: Xenonauts -> Armored vest. Huh? I understand the shield, but the vest itself? 2) Eth commander.

And I completely get behind this approach. Maybe even recommend it. Which doesn't change the fact that it's a little cheaty.

Typo in "Sniper/Spotter Cooperation" article
"rely" is used instead of "relay"

Thx, fixed.

Big Bosses always get blamed for what their predecessors did.

Yeah, you should have gotten to the base sooner!

And more event weirdness.
On 11.1.1997 I got Money Prize Event, giving me $200 000 and -50 for "excellent results".

So far, I captured 2 cultists and 2 farmers (with no interrogations so far), killed 4 cultists, and had one agent eaten by a giant ape (Mongorn). I would not call that excellent results.

That's my screw up; the initial month counts as successful no matter what happens. Fixed it already in the daily version.

[Mathel]

More weirdness:
Is it intended to get the Monster comendation from killing somebody with a Shotgun baton round? The commendation's description seems to refer to melee.