Ideas for better aircombat?

[khade]

They could try to follow you after you've uncloaked, attacked something and are now retreating, though actually succeeding would depend on luck or observant crewmembers.

[Solarius Scorch]

I've been wondering about how to design an aggressive mode for UFOs, where it actively hunts your ships, and not make it too painful (and make you lose all your Skyranger just like that, like Xenonauts did). So here's the idea:

- If your ship is found and intercepted, you get to choose: either Engage or Land.
- If you choose Engage, you do the normal air combat.
- If you choose Land, you do a ground combat against the UFO. Regardless of result, after this battle you return to base - no continuing towards your original destination.
- Ships returning from a mission are never targeted.

(Yes, I know Piratez has the Cloaking Device rationale, but 1) rationales change, 2) there are other mods out there too.)

[tylor]

Most of your vessels have no chance against enemy warships 1x1 both in air and on land.
So, it's an equivalent of just killing off your vessels and trained pilots randomly.

[legionof1]

It's a workable idea in a mod where the air and ground tech gets much closer to parity or eventual advantage for the player. In pirates the player is permanently behind in the air and only wins on the ground vs large ships because the tactical ai is a turd.

Even the new series has artificial difficulty in ground combat due to "pod" mechanic breaking the enemy into digestible chunks for the player. It does make the game better but its nonsense from a simulation standpoint.

[Solarius Scorch]

Most of your vessels have no chance against enemy warships 1x1 both in air and on land.
So, it's an equivalent of just killing off your vessels and trained pilots randomly.

Yes, that's why I'm suggesting an option to land.

Was your comment against my post, or the UFO interception idea in general?

Anyway, I imagine that interceptions would only be performed by UFOs who are specifically told to do so, otherwise it wouldn't be vanilla-friendly. So the modder can make sure it's balanced properly.

It's a workable idea in a mod where the air and ground tech gets much closer to parity or eventual advantage for the player. In pirates the player is permanently behind in the air and only wins on the ground vs large ships because the tactical ai is a turd.

Even the new series has artificial difficulty in ground combat due to "pod" mechanic breaking the enemy into digestible chunks for the player. It does make the game better but its nonsense from a simulation standpoint.

I agree with all the above, but this feature is not tied to Piratez specifically. If it existed, Dioxine could use it or not, whatever he decides.

[legionof1]

Specific interception ufos would make it pretty good imo. The fighter in pirates is reasonably nasty in the air but can be out fought in the air by dedicated air combat craft 1x1 and out matched on the ground by the weight of numbers in transports.

I would also add an option to evade the interception. If your craft is faster you return to base(original mission still denied) if not you proceed to air combat. This way you can have a little more wiggle room on choice of intercepting ufos. Things like gunboats are a more difficult challenge in direct combat but are somewhat slow.

[Solarius Scorch]

Specific interception ufos would make it pretty good imo. The fighter in pirates is reasonably nasty in the air but can be out fought in the air by dedicated air combat craft 1x1 and out matched on the ground by the weight of numbers in transports.

Yes, exactly... Fighters would be a poor choice for pirate hunters, as they would be routinely lured to the ground and killed.

I would also add an option to evade the interception. If your craft is faster you return to base(original mission still denied) if not you proceed to air combat. This way you can have a little more wiggle room on choice of intercepting ufos. Things like gunboats are a more difficult challenge in direct combat but are somewhat slow.

True, but can't you just disengage? I'm not sure how air combat works exactly.

[legionof1]

Yes, to clarify i mean a "evade" option that bypasses normal air combat. Player craft returns to base(with no option for redirect) and interceptor ufo is removed from map. Normal air combat is current speed dependent but ufo speed fluctuates therefore chance involved. What i am after is a max vs max check that allows the player to opt out directly. Mostly i would intend this to streamline the preservation of frail interceptors that get tagged by heavy craft. The original mission is still scrubbed but the player is not forced to fiddle around with more clicks and layers to deal with a clear loss. 

[tylor]

Yes, that's why I'm suggesting an option to land.

Your ships are even worse on land, because most pilot crews are one or two girls.

[Solarius Scorch]

Yes, to clarify i mean a "evade" option that bypasses normal air combat. Player craft returns to base(with no option for redirect) and interceptor ufo is removed from map. Normal air combat is current speed dependent but ufo speed fluctuates therefore chance involved. What i am after is a max vs max check that allows the player to opt out directly. Mostly i would intend this to streamline the preservation of frail interceptors that get tagged by heavy craft. The original mission is still scrubbed but the player is not forced to fiddle around with more clicks and layers to deal with a clear loss.

Yeah, but that's more of a slap on the wrist than anything. Sure, you miss the mission, but there is nothing exciting about it... It's more of a "the weather's bad today, we'll go hunting ratmen some other day". Basically just a cockblock, nothing exciting about it.

Your ships are even worse on land, because most pilot crews are one or two girls.

Oh sorry, let me take you right to Cydonia now.

Seriously, your ship has no chance against the enemy in the air and no chance on the ground? Are we facing Battleships? What kind of an argument is this?

[legionof1]

Yeah, but that's more of a slap on the wrist than anything. Sure, you miss the mission, but there is nothing exciting about it... It's more of a "the weather's bad today, we'll go hunting ratmen some other day". Basically just a cockblock, nothing exciting about it.

Oh sorry, let me take you right to Cydonia now.

Seriously, your ship has no chance against the enemy in the air and no chance on the ground? Are we facing Battleships? What kind of an argument is this?

Not exciting maybe but injecting excitement into something you are unable win becomes a turd sandwich with capers pretty fast. Yes there are the exceptional skilled/lucky players that can manage a 1-3 vs 10-15 with 2nd string gear but they are not the majority. Air combat before a certain point in vanilla is equally bad and even more concrete a outcome. You simply lack the speed and damage potential to get the job done against large parts of enemy lineup. Even if i can't escape i would prefer the single button "auto resolve" option rather then sit through the loseing combat several time per game.

To be clear i am in favor of this addition but it is something that needs a intense focus on balancing. It could very easily become intensely frustrating to the player. Not only are you losing your original target, the craft/crew is at risk as well. Having potentially your entire game at risk on RNG is not cool in 30+hour games. You mentioned the sky-ranger problem yourself Sorch. Being confronted with a high potential non standard game over with a tiny fraction of your arsenal is punitive to the player. Granted that the deeper into a play-through you get the smaller the issue becomes, but for the period it exists it a severe strike against player enjoyment if executed poorly. Be very aware of the ramifications of this addtion.

[tylor]

It depends a lot on what kind of ships you would be hunted with, and when. If it's a late game only, it could be an incentive to decommission every non-transport that can not either outrun or outfight every ship that enemy can use for intercepting.

[Solarius Scorch]

Yeah guys, I realize it's a tough problem to balance. And I'm not even sure it's the right solution. But I can't remember or think of anything better.

I guess it's up to Dioxine to say if such a feature is even interesting.

[Martin]

Solarius Scorch: Give big factions alert level mechanics that gives them several discere bands of agressivity (low alert faction will do "civilian" missions such as surveying, high threat ones will eventually do nothing but patrol the globe with battleships). Alert level should go up when you shoot down their crafts, successfully assault their landed crafts, while it should drop a bit everytime they score by suceeding at a mission and also a bit at the end of a month. This gives the players an option of playing it smart and not triggering a response he can't currently deal with by choosing their battles.

But this woudl be a bitch to code I guess...

[alinare]

Hello:
I do not know if it has already been mentioned, but you could do something like the Xenonauts. Attacks on squadrons of two-three fighters, or that when the Skyranger, for example, takes the troops to a mission, can be knocked down by the way. In fact, the Skyranger himself, can intercept if the player so decides, a UFO, and force down, but not in reverse.