Author Topic: Gameplay feedback 0.99C  (Read 7730 times)

Offline Eddie

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Gameplay feedback 0.99C
« on: October 30, 2016, 07:20:53 pm »
Since I don't record videos of me playing Piratez, I want to share my experiences with this post.

I recently started a new game on Jack Sparrow with 0.99B, but 0.99C came out soon so most of my gameplay has been with 0.99C. This is my first experience of Airbus Adventures, so far I've made it to June of the first year.
First of all I would like to say that I really like the way this mod is developing. The things I found not so well balanced in earlier versions have pretty much all been solved. So really good job on that Dioxine!
The best thing in Piratez for me are the custom missions like Ratmen Rodeos and faction outposts. I think Dioxine is really good at designing those. Also, much of the balancing (usefulness of items, appearance of factions) can be done with these custom missions. I would say creating more of these is the best use of Dioxine’s development time.

On to my feedback:
Biggest change so far in gameplay is that I play only night missions if possible, with the exceptions of Ratman Rodeos. I more or less play a capture only game, and for this I need to get into melee range. In the beginning you don't have smoke grenades, so melee fighting in daylight is not a good option. It's hard to get into melee range without being shot at, and then you don't have the TUs to get back into cover.
On the contrary, melee game at night is quite easy. You are already close when you spot them and you only need to retreat a bit after taking one down to be safe enough. You just have to be careful of light sources. In the beginning I mostly used Tribal outfit and handles. Later on, Tribal got replaced by Guerilla. The handles stayed in the quickdraw slot but got supplemented with cattle prods in the backpack for tougher enemies.
I’ve found the domestic shotgun with rubber bullets to be my most used weapon (Harpoon with stun clips for tougher enemies in backpack). At night you can get close enough to hit stuff and it’s safer than melee. Also training firing is more useful than training melee. I actually prefer the shotgun to the harpoon when possible, because the shotgun takes less TU to fire (detailed explanation below). Sitting in the darkness and reaction firing at enemies illuminated by electroflares is a nice and save tactic. I’ve more or less stopped using smoke grenades because I don’t need them (cover of darkness) or they are useless (Reticulans). Below is a picture of my standard loadout in June that I would use for a landed academy Cutter (large scout). This loadout is for Academy, Traders Guild or a Temple Raid. For Ratman Rodeo I used Blackmarch Pistols and Muskets in the beginning and then Doublebarrel Shotguns once I had them. Terror missions or Raiders would also need a different loadout.

I really enjoyed the Airbus Adventures. Playing with a small squad size in the beginning makes gameplay fast. Small squad size makes the items you have much more important. With 18 gals Muskets were fine, you had enough of them. With 6 gals, Muskets are not fine anymore because their damage output is not high enough, reloading takes too much time. In my opinion Piratez really shines with smaller squad sizes.
I find the jump from 8 gals (Pachyderm) to 18 gals (Bonaventura) is a bit drastic though (and also I miss my doors). Maybe this transition can be made a bit smoother in future versions, with a 12 gal ship in between. Now that I have an alternative to the Bonaventura, I realize all it’s drawbacks. It’s slow, no doors, and consumes way more Hellerium than the Pachyderm. I will get a Triton soon, let’s see if I like that better than the Bonny.
On the item side, I think balance is really good. The weaker guns you get early enough that they actually are useful at the time you find them. For example the Blackmarch Pistol: On my first Ratman Rodeo it was the most useful weapon I had. One shot doesn’t do much damage, but it fires fast and accurate and has a big clipsize.
Regarding weirder items like the iGun: At first I thought it was a gimmick, but now I realize it’s point is to diversify enemy damage types without giving the player an advantage. The iGun is dangerous in enemy hands, but useless to the player.
What I also like is the availability of mutant meat. Now getting hit is much less annoying. Your gal is still out for that mission, as she needs to get back to the craft and start munching. It’s balanced in that way that replacing the mutant meat costs enough runt time to bother you. Now you can choose if you want the gal available or the runts available.
Items that I found out of balance in past versions were the hunting bow and the flag. The Pirate Flag is now perfectly balanced, and with the longer vision range the limited range of the hunting bow is annoying enough to balance out it’s usefulness. I’ve also had the opinion that shotguns were useless and the Warrior armor protects too much. Both issues solved.
Where I find balance a bit lacking is melee weapons, but that has also to do with the enemies. For melee I use a handle and see little need for anything else. The handle does enough damage that most of the time civilians go down in one hit, so why use anything else? If I get into melee range, I might as well stun them and not kill them because the deadly weapons don’t do the job that much faster that it matters. For things like the Barbarian Sword, there are just no worthy enemies (Shamblers maybe, but only if you have no shotguns).
I would also like to point out that I really like the balance of the early outfits. Every outfit has some good points and some drawbacks, so I mixed and matched for every girls needs. That only stopped when I got Guerilla outfit, which is now on every girl. Main reason to use Guerilla is the camouflage it gives (so useful on night missions), paired with other nice things like huge reaction bonus, decent energy regen, decent piercing protection, accuracy bonus and full inventory. Only downside on Guerilla is the lack of armor, but the point of Guerilla is to avoid getting shot at, so this is manageable.

Concerning the economy and geoscape game:
I was a bit disappointed that I always had enough ammo for my guns just from looting. But this is because of my gameplay, handles don’t need ammo. I capture everything that is worth capturing, so I only use deadly force on Ratmen or on a terror mission, where trying to capture everything is too dangerous. So I would like to have more targets that I need to shoot to deplete my ammo (and to shoot stuff of course!). Reason for shooting could be flying (can’t melee them), too dangerous (Shambler) or not worth taking alive (Reticulans, Ratmen). I have tried to mod this in myself by modding in a chance of blood hounds to civilian encounters. That has changed my packing habits (need more than just handle and shotgun with rubber bullets), but they are not as dangerous as I would have hoped. No gal was actually attacked by a blood hound so far.
Because of plentiful ammo, I felt no need to invest into weapon research to produce my own. What I did get soon however was the ability to produce assault cannons and munition because I feared a bandit terror mission with armored cars. A bit later I got contacts: Krazy Hanna for the same reason. But no bandit terror mission came.
Here I see potential for a new custom mission: Weapon depot assault. An easy version, where the target is a police station guarded by Highwaymen, dogs and armored cars. A tough version (unlocked by contacts: Krazy Hanna) where the target is a Spartan camp protected by tanks. So you have some targets for your newly available heavy weapons.
My research focused on armor and economy. I count getting an aircar as economy. Researching wine as soon as you get apples is very useful. With grog production, runts plus living quarters and extractor need more than two month to pay for themselves. With wine it’s a little more than one month. So unless you can make wine, expanding runt space is not a good investment in the beginning. After researching wine, I built two additional extractors in my starting base and that proved a good investment. Below is a picture of my main base at the start of June. The second base contains two dojos, two prisons and a sickbay. The third is just for Pigeons. 4th base is for more production and has a workshop building, 5th will be my research base and will get a library soon.
The research tree seems good. I like the idea of having the workshop as an indirect key research that you need to actually produce the other things you researched. Having the tech tree viewer integrated helps to identify this and plan accordingly. Good job here!
On the detection side, Pigeons are not the one and only thing to get anymore. Now that they need pilots and chemicals, building a base with a standard radar can be cheaper, depending on region. But if you shoot anything but civilians down near that base, it might get targeted by retaliation. So a mix of Pigeons and not too many but defendable bases with standard radars is best. Again, good balance.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Gameplay feedback 0.99C
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2016, 07:21:28 pm »
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Indepth Battlescape Gameplay
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I want to capture everything of value alive, so that means I need to play a melee game in the beginning. Melee game at day is hard, but at night it is quite easy. You are already close when you spot them and you only need to retreat a bit after taking one down to be safe enough. You just have to be careful of light sources. Your starting Airbus has no lights, so you can safely deploy in darkness even on the first turn.
This gamestyle needs mobility and reaction, which is why I found the Tribal outfit the most useful at the start. Tribal has bonus to stamina and +40% energy regeneration. You can run most of the time without needing to worry about energy. You are mobile enough to get into melee and back into cover. The reaction boost is also helpful to not get shot at while moving through the occasional light source or when approaching an enemy head on. Not being shot at is the best defense. The other armors you get early can't really replace Tribal. Pirate is nice because it increases your handle damage (+moral, +melee), but it lacks the reaction bonus and energy regeneration. Rouge is nice in theory, but you need about 80 bravery or your moral keeps dropping, and it also lacks the energy regeneration. Gym Suit has more inventory space than Tribal, but only +20% energy regeneration and no reaction boost. I've found that the 40% stamina regen on Tribal is dearly missed on other outfits, so their benefits are not worth that downside. Swimsuit finally has also 40% stamina regen, but no reaction bonus. So Swimsuit is only something for the elite gals with high enough reaction. Warrior armor is useful because it has high enough armor values to actually matter, especially vs shotguns. But you lose the mobility, so I only have one or two gals in Warrior. I use them as frontline damage blockers where enemies might come around a corner and shoot at me.
The best weapon for stunning in the early game is the handle. It scales with bravery and has at least 50% hit chance, so anybody can use it. When you wear Tribal (increased combat stress) and only do stuns (no moral from kills) you will get 60 to 70 bravery very soon on every gal. Also, it does just enough health damage to not kill, but keep the target down. Stun regeneration is tied to health percentage, at half health you will not recover from stun anymore. Fact is, most things you stun with a handle stay down.
The handle beats the other melee stun weapons by far when targeting civilians and similar. The ballbat may do more dps on some high strength low bravery gals, but the health damage is too much (maybe a rebalance here to make it more viable?). It can be useful on a Shambler hunt though, but not for stunning civilians. Fistycuffs deal unreliable damage (0-200% damage range, handle has 50-150%) and can also deal too much health damage. Stun baton can do more dps than handle with high reactions, but it does no health damage so targets may get back up. Cattle prod is similar. Also, most civilians go down from one handle hit anyway, so a cattle prod with it’s high TU cost is a waste of TU, despite the higher damage. I’ve found some use for the leather whip, but just as a training tool. 1 tile range snapshots almost always hits no matter the accuracy and because of the low damage.

My gamestyle changed when I got access to rubber bullets for the domestic shotgun. At night civilians have a sight range of 9, so you can shoot from 10 tiles away and they won’t shoot back because they don’t see you. Once you built up your accuracy, you can hit from a longer distance. Kneeling is the key. Rubber bullets don’t deal much damage, but it’s saver to use than melee. It also builds up your accuracy, which is more useful on dangerous missions. On tougher missions like Pogroms and Ratman Rodeos, stunning everyone is too dangerous, and then you need to be able to hit things with your rifle.
For civilan shippings, all you need to do is sit outside the ufo door in the darkness with rubber bullet shotguns. Anything that steps out is hit by reaction fired rubber bullets. You train reaction and firing at three shots per turn. You train your gals very fast that way, because one reaction fired bullet is enough to get TU, stamina and strength xp for the mission. You don’t even need to hit anything. So from two civilians you can get xp for the whole squad if they all reaction fire but miss. To deliberately make most of your quad miss, simply equip another item in your other hand and your accuracy will drop. The domestic shotgun can still be fired with one hand.
This tactic is easiest to use with civilian shippings because most of the time they spawn in their ufo and the ufo is a light source. Electroflares are a good addition to this tactic. Throw them some 15 tiles away, so you are still in darkness. If you see no enemy, run to the flare and put it in your inventory to kill the light (NOT in the hand. They still emit light when in your hand. Ankle slot is best because it cost the least to put it there from ground.).

Night missions become difficult once you meet enemies with better night vision than you (Osiron Security, Reticulans). Here Guerilla outfit saves the day. Guerilla has 5 camouflage, which is subtracted from enemy night vision. Osiron Security night vision gets reduced from 16 to a manageable 11. Reticulans still have 15 night vision, but I prefer that to the 40 vision range at day. The argument is simple: at day, everything you shoot at will shoot back at you. At night, only Reticulans at 15 tiles or closer will shoot back. I can use flares so I can see them at any distance. In the past I would have preferred a day mission and used smokes, but since these particular enemies can also see through smoke, night is the only way to reduce their vision range to something manageable. For night missions, camouflage on armors is so useful that once you have that option, you don’t use anything else anymore.
At day, Guerilla is still a good choice because the high reaction bonus means you can pop out of cover, shoot, and get back into cover without triggering reaction fire. Sadly, the harpoon gun aimed shot takes too much TU for that. But you can do it with rubber bullet shotguns :-)
For the tougher enemies like Osiron Security, Academy Medics and Guild Security, rubber bullets have reached their limit. So my gals have a Harpoon with stun clips as a backup weapon in the backpack. Also a Cattle Prod for the Osiron Security or Fisticuffs if their melee skill is high enough. I still prefer the rubber bullet shotguns to the harpoons because they fire faster. More hits means more training xp. Also, rubber bullets can be bought and don’t cost runt time. The damage output vs civilians is actually kind of equal, as the domestic shotgun can shoot three times per round and you need 2 – 3 hits to down a civilian. The harpoon has better range though.
So my basic setup in June, first year for a mission where I want to capture is: Guerilla outfit, domestic shotgun with rubber bullets in hand. Handle in quickdraw slot. Harpoon with stun clips in backpack, together with a cattle prod.
I’ve more or less stopped using smoke grenades. The only mission where I actually used them was a landed Government Gunship at night. I probably would find them useful on a bandit terror mission, but I’ve had only one terror mission with Nazis so far. At Ratman Rodeos I might use a smoke grenade, but there is enough cover that I don’t really need it.

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: Gameplay feedback 0.99C
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2016, 10:28:00 pm »
Very nice write up Eddie!  Great breakdown on early night fighting tactics!  Excellent analysis!!

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Gameplay feedback 0.99C
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2016, 10:38:50 pm »
Yes, very informative. I've tweaked camo balance in 0.99D so such kind of overkill with Guerilla is no longer possible, but it should remain useful armor (while its role in night missions is replaced by Night Ops, I hope).

Offline Eddie

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Re: Gameplay feedback 0.99C
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2016, 11:24:45 pm »
I've noticed the handle got reduced to 0.35 bravery scaling. That would have been my suggestion as well :-)
Give the other weapons a chance

Changes on the new version look promising. I'll report back what they do to my playstyle.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Gameplay feedback 0.99C
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2016, 01:41:37 am »
I just concluded that the Bonaventura is a tactical nightmare to deploy from on a day mission. Reason beeing that smoke can be useless depending on enemies (heat vision). The Bonny gives you no cover once out of the craft, and even inside the craft you can be in a situation that is impossible to resolve without casualties. Basically, the Bonny needed smoke cover to function, and is broken when smoke cover is useless.

My personal view of the game is that of a tactical puzzle that when solved correctly means no casualties. With heat vision, the Bonny can give you puzzles that are unsolvable. TFTD had useless smoke grenades, but it had crafts with doors and cover on the ground.

Offline Meridian

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Re: Gameplay feedback 0.99C
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2016, 01:45:31 am »
I am using Bonny the whole time and have no problems deploying.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Gameplay feedback 0.99C
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2016, 02:08:07 am »
I just concluded that the Bonaventura is a tactical nightmare to deploy from on a day mission. Reason beeing that smoke can be useless depending on enemies (heat vision). The Bonny gives you no cover once out of the craft, and even inside the craft you can be in a situation that is impossible to resolve without casualties. Basically, the Bonny needed smoke cover to function, and is broken when smoke cover is useless.

Your conclusion is correct. Bonaventura is an assault model, not defensive model; it provides multiple exit points and platforms to allow the player to maximize damage output during the first turn. Cowering inside of it is possible, but it's fighting against the hull design. If your style of playing is defensive, use one of the wide selection of defensive-oriented craft.

Offline KateMicucci

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Re: Gameplay feedback 0.99C
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2016, 03:35:48 pm »
How did you get 15 plasma guns by June?

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: Gameplay feedback 0.99C
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2016, 03:51:40 pm »
Reticulan plasma guns maybe, if they have a mission right by your base.  I got the Triton really early from a situation like that.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Gameplay feedback 0.99C
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2016, 04:14:42 pm »
Your conclusion is correct. Bonaventura is an assault model, not defensive model; it provides multiple exit points and platforms to allow the player to maximize damage output during the first turn. Cowering inside of it is possible, but it's fighting against the hull design. If your style of playing is defensive, use one of the wide selection of defensive-oriented craft.

That seems to be the case. I play capture only, and non-leathal weapons don't have the damage output to deal with everything in the landing zone on turn 1. You already have other Bonaventura variants planned, so I'm looking foreward to that.

I will watch some of Meridians LPs to see how he deals with the deployment problem.

@KateMicucci
I had a reticulan base, all the plasmas are from that mission. That misson took me 50 turns to complete...
« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 04:16:39 pm by Eddie »

Offline Eddie

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Re: Gameplay feedback 0.99C
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2016, 05:28:31 pm »
I am using Bonny the whole time and have no problems deploying.

I've watched some LPs of you. You already had full plate when you switched to 0.99C, so you have a full plate "door" on the Bonny. And you got lucky. In episode 135 at 20 minutes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--0vCXPfb40&index=137&list=PLe0K-GUDQkNJM3d7NgS4gU7u-Pm-4JWk3), there is a reaction fired rocket on turn 1 that misses. If it had hit, that would have been 8 gals in the blast radius. On enemy turn 1, they fire at your gals through the open front, and they only survive because of good armor. And you got lucky again they couldn't throw grenades because of blocking trees. So that is the situation I'm talking about.
I guess you wouldn't say no problem deploying if you had 8 gals hit with rocket and grenades on that mission.

Early game when you get the Bonny you probably won't be facing rocket launchers. But light cannon with explosive rounds or reticulan spore launchers are possible, and lack of good armor makes them just as dangerous.

Offline Meridian

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Re: Gameplay feedback 0.99C
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2016, 05:37:29 pm »
I am not saying, nobody gets hurt or even killed.

Just saying that I am successfully using Bonny since Day 1... I basically did all missions against all various enemies with that craft and my average losses per mission are less than 1 soldier.

Calling Bonny a "tactical nightmare" is just not justified... I haven't had a reason to switch to a different craft yet... and I am very close to end game already.

Offline khade

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Re: Gameplay feedback 0.99C
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2016, 02:53:53 am »
Another thing to keep in mind is that when Meridian started this run, the early game was much much harder.  Enemies with at least carapace, stronger guns, that sort of thing.

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Gameplay feedback 0.99C
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2016, 04:45:22 am »
That seems to be the case. I play capture only, and non-leathal weapons don't have the damage output to deal with everything in the landing zone on turn 1.

Well.. Don't hamstring yourself to the point of not being able to play? I love captures in Piratez, but capture only is far from necessary. ~25% captures is probably fine, with special attention paid to VIP types and missions where you overpower the enemies. Going out against some enemies (ex.: Mercs) with only stun weapons is just asking to lose and it is proper that you at the very least struggle.