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Author Topic: [LP]Hardmode Expansion - Glory or death! (Likely much of both)  (Read 53411 times)

Offline Meridian

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Re: [LP]Hardmode Expansion - Glory or death! (Likely much of both)
« Reply #60 on: September 22, 2016, 10:45:45 pm »
We demand another episode NOW!



:D

Offline hellrazor

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Re: [LP]Hardmode Expansion - Glory or death! (Likely much of both)
« Reply #61 on: September 23, 2016, 09:58:27 am »
Btw: Solarius Scorch recommended you to use the UFO Extender Accuracy.
I do not recommend that, you will need the mid range autofire and with UFO Extender Accuracy the accuracy drop begins after 7 tiles, depending on the aim of the soldier, you can not use autofire 10 to 16 fields away, because the accuracy will be 0.

The integration of it in the mod was updated recently, but I got really annoyed with it while testing. Many enemies need to be put down with autofire at midrange and I balanced some of the units with this in mind.

We are fighting at ranges of max 48 to 120 meters, if you translate this into real world distance (40x40 mapsize to 100x100 mapsize).
The visual range is 24 meters I do not see any reason to use it and I do not recommend it for a reason.

There will be situations were only Autofire can safe your butt, it already has reduced accuracy compared to Snap Shot or Aimed Shot and to not forget UFO Extender Accuracy is a Mod, not introduced in vanilla game but later added.

My conclusion is after test playing with it, that I personally will not use anymore. When I played throu the FMP a while ago, I actually added Autoshots to some weapons, because the lack of it was just annoying too.

I developed and balanced the mod without UFO Extender Accuracy Support. The mod is not balanced for it. I added some support for it, for all the new weapons, but you actually can not overwrite the default dropoffs, unflexible.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 02:19:15 pm by hellrazor »

Offline Lion66six

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Re: [LP]Hardmode Expansion - Glory or death! (Likely much of both)
« Reply #62 on: September 23, 2016, 02:45:02 pm »
We demand another episode NOW!



:D

Next one is public. Here is the link https://youtu.be/XS0LUPfyahA

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [LP]Hardmode Expansion - Glory or death! (Likely much of both)
« Reply #63 on: September 23, 2016, 04:41:46 pm »
Btw: Solarius Scorch recommended you to use the UFO Extender Accuracy.
I do not recommend that, you will need the mid range autofire and with UFO Extender Accuracy the accuracy drop begins after 7 tiles, depending on the aim of the soldier, you can not use autofire 10 to 16 fields away, because the accuracy will be 0.

The integration of it in the mod was updated recently, but I got really annoyed with it while testing. Many enemies need to be put down with autofire at midrange and I balanced some of the units with this in mind.

We are fighting at ranges of max 48 to 120 meters, if you translate this into real world distance (40x40 mapsize to 100x100 mapsize).
The visual range is 24 meters I do not see any reason to use it and I do not recommend it for a reason.

There will be situations were only Autofire can safe your butt, it already has reduced accuracy compared to Snap Shot or Aimed Shot and to not forget UFO Extender Accuracy is a Mod, not introduced in vanilla game but later added.

My conclusion is after test playing with it, that I personally will not use anymore. When I played throu the FMP a while ago, I actually added Autoshots to some weapons, because the lack of it was just annoying too.

I developed and balanced the mod without UFO Extender Accuracy Support. The mod is not balanced for it. I added some support for it, for all the new weapons, but you actually can not overwrite the default dropoffs, unflexible.

UFOExtender Accuracy was introduce so that autoshots doesn't trump all at all distances. The biggest offender for that is the vanilla heavy plasma where it is always better to autoshot than aim or snap.

Also, you can define the range at which dropoff starts for each shot type, as well as by how much the accuracy drops (common to all shot types, maybe you meant that you would prefer to define dropoff by shot type?), which allows to customize weapons extensively. With the proper definitions, it highly enhances the gameplay for many of us by making all shot types relevant (and also making reaction fire at long range less accurate), but it does take work.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [LP]Hardmode Expansion - Glory or death! (Likely much of both)
« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2016, 05:27:18 pm »
Also, you can define the range at which dropoff starts for each shot type, as well as by how much the accuracy drops (common to all shot types, maybe you meant that you would prefer to define dropoff by shot type?), which allows to customize weapons extensively. With the proper definitions, it highly enhances the gameplay for many of us by making all shot types relevant (and also making reaction fire at long range less accurate), but it does take work.

This.
Sorry, but I have an unusually (for me) strong opinion that X-Com in any form without UFO Extender Accuracy turns a very competent tactical game into something like tic-tac-toe. Not only it becomes more shallow, but it also feels kinda silly.
Of course I didn't mind it back in 1994... But only because I wasn't aware that there's no accuracy drop. :P

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [LP]Hardmode Expansion - Glory or death! (Likely much of both)
« Reply #65 on: September 23, 2016, 05:32:08 pm »
And you were.. hum.. 22 years younger plus the game was "cutting edge" of its kind. There was plenty to impress and enough innocence (I was.. not even 13 when my cousin showed it to me!) to not notice. Things are rather different now.

I'm not watching (yet) but I will as I am very curious to see what a Hardmode game looks like and even though I am reluctant to inflict such pain on myself, I quite enjoy seeing others suffer :P And I know I will enjoy watching more if it's not autoshot spam.

Offline Meridian

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Re: [LP]Hardmode Expansion - Glory or death! (Likely much of both)
« Reply #66 on: September 23, 2016, 06:05:05 pm »
And I know I will enjoy watching more if it's not autoshot spam.

I believe Hardmode was "balanced" to spam everything (including autoshots) and to use as much cheese as you possibly can... we'll see later in the LP I guess. I didn't play it enough to know for sure, and I am glad that Lion66six will do that for me, regardless if he proves me right or wrong.

In any case, Lion66six is doing a great job with the LP... I like when people just play and don't try to impress the audience at all costs with those "this-is-the-only-way-to-do-it-right tips & tricks" (e.g. energetic voice, constant (fake) interaction with viewers: influencing/compelling viewers emotionally, etc. etc. basically what majority of big youtubers (have to) do). Just a relaxed guy playing a great game for pure fun... you don't find many such youtubers these days!

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [LP]Hardmode Expansion - Glory or death! (Likely much of both)
« Reply #67 on: September 23, 2016, 06:12:11 pm »
Fair enough. My apologies to Lion66six for the undue pressure. Strong beliefs are some times hard to keep in check.

In general, I enjoy Extender Accuracy when I play. In specific, play however you like (and however the mod you play was designed!) and have fun. Watching a LPer having fun is what makes LPs worth watching (well, that and hilarity when everything goes wrong! ;) ) so: Have fun, get murdered and I'm looking forward to seeing both!

Offline hellrazor

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Re: [LP]Hardmode Expansion - Glory or death! (Likely much of both)
« Reply #68 on: September 23, 2016, 06:55:49 pm »
UFOExtender Accuracy was introduce so that autoshots doesn't trump all at all distances. The biggest offender for that is the vanilla heavy plasma where it is always better to autoshot than aim or snap.

Also, you can define the range at which dropoff starts for each shot type, as well as by how much the accuracy drops (common to all shot types, maybe you meant that you would prefer to define dropoff by shot type?), which allows to customize weapons extensively. With the proper definitions, it highly enhances the gameplay for many of us by making all shot types relevant (and also making reaction fire at long range less accurate), but it does take work.

I will revisit the settings I made so far, because something doesn't seem right and Heavy Plasma spamming against Lategame Enemies is actually something I recommend :)

I believe Hardmode was "balanced" to spam everything (including autoshots) and to use as much cheese as you possibly can... we'll see later in the LP I guess. I didn't play it enough to know for sure, and I am glad that Lion66six will do that for me, regardless if he proves me right or wrong.

In any case, Lion66six is doing a great job with the LP... I like when people just play and don't try to impress the audience at all costs with those "this-is-the-only-way-to-do-it-right tips & tricks" (e.g. energetic voice, constant (fake) interaction with viewers: influencing/compelling viewers emotionally, etc. etc. basically what majority of big youtubers (have to) do). Just a relaxed guy playing a great game for pure fun... you don't find many such youtubers these days!

Well Meridian it depends, I break some principles vanilla had for the lategame enemies, some of them can not be oneshotted.
Example: Muton Elite Guard Soldiers can be oneshotted with a maximum crit from a Plasma Sniper Rifle with Elerium Clip (dealing 260 damage in the process, 160 HP+100 Front Armor).
So in general it is better to attack them from behind.

I will make a special adaptation for the UFO Extender Acccuracy via dropoff and ranges for all weapons, damagetype classes in the mod. It will differentiate thou from the original settings, due to the fact of stronger and more numberous enemies.

And you were.. hum.. 22 years younger plus the game was "cutting edge" of its kind. There was plenty to impress and enough innocence (I was.. not even 13 when my cousin showed it to me!) to not notice. Things are rather different now.

I'm not watching (yet) but I will as I am very curious to see what a Hardmode game looks like and even though I am reluctant to inflict such pain on myself, I quite enjoy seeing others suffer :P And I know I will enjoy watching more if it's not autoshot spam.

Once you get Power Suits and Scatter Laser things get really nice. I recommend "Advanced Movement Methods" for a good reason, since the increased stamina from the Power Suits allows for a "Run & Gun" like attack, when storming UFO's. Run up and punish the enemy with a autoshot from the a Shotgun Class Weapon in the face, drop dead guareentied.. :)

Offline Zyzyfer

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Re: [LP]Hardmode Expansion - Glory or death! (Likely much of both)
« Reply #69 on: September 23, 2016, 07:03:17 pm »
I've been messing about with AWESOME GUNS MOD for a week and I must say it does a well done job with the range and accuracy drops.

Pistols, shotguns, rifles etc. seem to perform as they should- different type of firearms excel at a different distances- shotguns/auto cannons for short; pistols, rifles, assault rifles etc. for short-med; & sniper rifles for long range etc...
But at same time (even with sniper rifles), its not overdone like vanilla whereby you come to a point you can kill at any distance using auto shot; from across the map even (and the aliens on higher levels never missed from anywhere on map).
The mod does a good job at making sure there is no single firearm that is king, they all have their advantage/disadvantages, and even conventional human weapons become viable till the end of the game with the right techs...LOVING the MOD!!!

Offline hellrazor

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Re: [LP]Hardmode Expansion - Glory or death! (Likely much of both)
« Reply #70 on: September 23, 2016, 07:31:22 pm »
I've been messing about with AWESOME GUNS MOD for a week and I must say it does a well done job with the range and accuracy drops.

Pistols, shotguns, rifles etc. seem to perform as they should- different type of firearms excel at a different distances- shotguns/auto cannons for short; pistols, rifles, assault rifles etc. for short-med; & sniper rifles for long range etc...
But at same time (even with sniper rifles), its not overdone like vanilla whereby you come to a point you can kill at any distance using auto shot; from across the map even (and the aliens on higher levels never missed from anywhere on map).
The mod does a good job at making sure there is no single firearm that is king, they all have their advantage/disadvantages, and even conventional human weapons become viable till the end of the game with the right techs...LOVING the MOD!!!

Thats a aspact I turned around, weapons become  obsolete over time, as soon as new Aliens are introduced which are basically immune towards their damage.
This forces the player to get new new tech, even thou he may use explosives, rockets and grenades and even melee weapons to compensate until he has the techs.
The research is forces you to make decisions and sometimes you have to postphone some research which you really wanna have, but other matters are more pressing.
Mutons and higher Enemies are nearly Immune to Conventional Weapons.
Muton Elites and other Lategame Enemies are nearly immune to Laser weaponry.
In the end everything can of course be killed of with plasma weapons.

Also each weapon has its specific role and purpose, Pistols, Rifles, Shotguns, Heavy Weapons each of them are there and also of course Rocket and bomb Launchers. They are all perfectly balanced.

Offline Lion66six

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Re: [LP]Hardmode Expansion - Glory or death! (Likely much of both)
« Reply #71 on: September 23, 2016, 08:19:14 pm »
I'm not watching (yet) but I will as I am very curious to see what a Hardmode game looks like and even though I am reluctant to inflict such pain on myself, I quite enjoy seeing others suffer :P And I know I will enjoy watching more if it's not autoshot spam.

Well hope you enjoy watching, I have the view that the accuracy in place via the mod is about right. Each type of shot does have its place as valid options based on situation and range.

Offline Lion66six

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Re: [LP]Hardmode Expansion - Glory or death! (Likely much of both)
« Reply #72 on: September 23, 2016, 08:20:53 pm »
I believe Hardmode was "balanced" to spam everything (including autoshots) and to use as much cheese as you possibly can... we'll see later in the LP I guess. I didn't play it enough to know for sure, and I am glad that Lion66six will do that for me, regardless if he proves me right or wrong.

In any case, Lion66six is doing a great job with the LP... I like when people just play and don't try to impress the audience at all costs with those "this-is-the-only-way-to-do-it-right tips & tricks" (e.g. energetic voice, constant (fake) interaction with viewers: influencing/compelling viewers emotionally, etc. etc. basically what majority of big youtubers (have to) do). Just a relaxed guy playing a great game for pure fun... you don't find many such youtubers these days!

Thanks mate, appreciate the feedback :-)

Offline Lion66six

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Re: [LP]Hardmode Expansion - Glory or death! (Likely much of both)
« Reply #73 on: September 23, 2016, 08:22:38 pm »
Fair enough. My apologies to Lion66six for the undue pressure. Strong beliefs are some times hard to keep in check.

In general, I enjoy Extender Accuracy when I play. In specific, play however you like (and however the mod you play was designed!) and have fun. Watching a LPer having fun is what makes LPs worth watching (well, that and hilarity when everything goes wrong! ;) ) so: Have fun, get murdered and I'm looking forward to seeing both!

No worries, everyone has a view and expressing it should never be considered as terrorism :-)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [LP]Hardmode Expansion - Glory or death! (Likely much of both)
« Reply #74 on: September 24, 2016, 12:45:29 pm »
And you were.. hum.. 22 years younger plus the game was "cutting edge" of its kind. There was plenty to impress and enough innocence (I was.. not even 13 when my cousin showed it to me!) to not notice. Things are rather different now.

Very true... Though I was 18 already! :P

I believe Hardmode was "balanced" to spam everything (including autoshots) and to use as much cheese as you possibly can...

Ah... In this case I take it back. :)