aliens

Author Topic: Redundant/unreachable research topics (0.99C)  (Read 4949 times)

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 8597
    • View Profile
Redundant/unreachable research topics (0.99C)
« on: September 09, 2016, 06:58:33 pm »
I am doing a feature (in tech tree) which shows you your current overall research progress, nothing fancy, just a percentage.

But after researching everything, it shows me only 70% progress.
30% seems to be unreachable.

@Dioxine: Can we please fix items, which are bugged and remove items which are not needed?

Category 1: piratez stuff, which cannot be obtained, captured alive or just doesn't exist at all

Quote
  - CYBERDISC_ARMOR_2
  - SECTOPOD_ARMOR_2
  - STR_UNARMORED_HUMAN
  - STR_SAKURA_STAFF_BLUEPRINTS
  - STR_SAKURA_STAFF
  - STR_IMPALER_BLUEPRINTS
  - STR_IMPALER
  - STR_MEGA_CANNON
  - STR_MEGA_LASER
  - STR_MEGA_FLAMER
  - STR_RPG_ADV
  - STR_SR_RIFLE
  - STR_SOL_DEMO_CHARGE
  - STR_SECTOPOD_TERRORIST
  - STR_XTANK_CANNON_TERRORIST
  - STR_WASPITE                                   #depends on below
  - STR_WASPITE_SOLDIER                   #probably doable

Category 2: Xcom stuff (just review and copy&paste...)

Quote
  - delete: STR_HEAVY_PLASMA
  - delete: STR_HEAVY_PLASMA_CLIP
  - delete: STR_PLASMA_RIFLE
  - delete: STR_PLASMA_RIFLE_CLIP
  - delete: STR_PLASMA_PISTOL
  - delete: STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP
  - delete: STR_BLASTER_LAUNCHER
  - delete: STR_BLASTER_BOMB
  - delete: STR_SMALL_LAUNCHER
  - delete: STR_STUN_BOMB
  - delete: STR_ALIEN_GRENADE
  - delete: STR_ZOMBIE_CORPSE
  - delete: STR_SNAKEMAN_CORPSE
  - delete: STR_FLOATER_CORPSE
  - delete: STR_SNAKEMAN_COMMANDER
  - delete: STR_SNAKEMAN_LEADER
  - delete: STR_SNAKEMAN_ENGINEER
  - delete: STR_SNAKEMAN_NAVIGATOR
  - delete: STR_SNAKEMAN_SOLDIER
  - delete: STR_SNAKEMAN_MEDIC
  - delete: STR_ETHEREAL_MEDIC
  - delete: STR_ETHEREAL_ENGINEER
  - delete: STR_ETHEREAL_NAVIGATOR
  - delete: STR_MUTON_LEADER
  - delete: STR_MUTON_MEDIC
  - delete: STR_FLOATER_COMMANDER
  - delete: STR_FLOATER_LEADER
  - delete: STR_FLOATER_ENGINEER
  - delete: STR_FLOATER_MEDIC
  - delete: STR_FLOATER_NAVIGATOR
  - delete: STR_FLOATER_SOLDIER
  - delete: STR_PLASMA_CANNON_DEP1
  - delete: STR_PLASMA_CANNON_DEP2
  - delete: STR_SNAKEMAN_AUTOPSY
  - delete: STR_FLOATER_AUTOPSY
  - delete: STR_CELATID_AUTOPSY
  - delete: STR_SILACOID_AUTOPSY
  - delete: STR_CHRYSSALID_AUTOPSY
  - delete: STR_REAPER_AUTOPSY
  - delete: STR_SECTOPOD_AUTOPSY
  - delete: STR_SECTOPOD
  - delete: STR_CYBERDISC
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 10:47:10 pm by Meridian »

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5412
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: Redundant/unreachable research topics (0.99C)
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2016, 07:49:44 pm »
Most stuff from cat. 1 does exist and can be reached, worry not :) Couple of items were indeed non-existant (UNARMORED_HUMAN), and a couple do exist but cannot be reached yet, since their part of the game doesn't exist yet.

As for cat. 2, yes, sure, I'm pasting it. Thanks for the compilation.

Offline Arthanor

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2488
  • XCom Armoury Quartermaster
    • View Profile
Re: Redundant/unreachable research topics (0.99C)
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2016, 08:17:05 pm »
Does the number show progress or the % of remaining unresearched items? Because that screenshot showing 26% looks like it comes from a game with a bunch of research already done (only one topic from the pilot, which is admittedly possible to achieve without researching anything else, maybe, but unlikely)

Also, I don't know how hard it would be, but I would find a feature that shows currently unresearched projects very convenient. Not projects which have currently undiscovered topics in their getOneFree lists, but the actual projects.

Another thing is that as far as I know, you can open the tech tree viewer two ways:
1 - Middle click on a research topic in the "select research topic" list
2 - Middle click on a manufacturing job

Which means that if you are currently stuck with nothing to research, a point where the tech tree viewer is most important, it becomes very unintuitive to reach. Indeed, it took me a while before realizing it could be reached from manufacture, during which I was getting mad at the game for not only not allowing me to progress, but also not having any way but ruleset trawling to get a clue on what to do next. Being able to launch the tech tree viewer from the "select research topic" either through a button or by clicking the empty space would be good.

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 8597
    • View Profile
Re: Redundant/unreachable research topics (0.99C)
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2016, 08:27:37 pm »
Most stuff from cat. 1 does exist and can be reached, worry not :)

I have checked, double checked and triple checked... please tell me which item from category 1 can be reached and how :)
I am 99.998% sure they are all unreachable.

Offline ohartenstein23

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1931
  • Flamethrowers fry cyberdisk circuits
    • View Profile
Re: Redundant/unreachable research topics (0.99C)
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2016, 08:29:56 pm »
At the very least, the waspites are included in terror missions with the star gods with mostly cyclops.

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 8597
    • View Profile
Re: Redundant/unreachable research topics (0.99C)
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2016, 08:36:31 pm »
At the very least, the waspites are included in terror missions with the star gods with mostly cyclops.

They can't be captured however, as far as I know, since they are immune to stun.

Offline ohartenstein23

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1931
  • Flamethrowers fry cyberdisk circuits
    • View Profile
Re: Redundant/unreachable research topics (0.99C)
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2016, 08:57:57 pm »
Psi-capture is probably the way to do it, but what about stun weapons that go off of a different resistance type?

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 8597
    • View Profile
Re: Redundant/unreachable research topics (0.99C)
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2016, 09:05:48 pm »
Psi-capture is probably the way to do it, but what about stun weapons that go off of a different resistance type?

Well, psi capture is not a standard option.
Also it has 70 psi strength, so it might be quite difficult in piratez anyway, if not impossible.

I haven't tried all weapons, maybe something works, I don't know all Yankes' magic, but it looks like it wasn't meant to be captured.
It has complete immunity to special damage too (i.e. seduction, etc.)

Offline LuigiWhatif

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 168
    • View Profile
Re: Redundant/unreachable research topics (0.99C)
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2016, 09:24:26 pm »
Have you tried power maces?  I remember those working.

I did also capture a few with psi, but as you realized its a pretty tough option.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 09:28:01 pm by LuigiWhatif »

Offline Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 8597
    • View Profile
Re: Redundant/unreachable research topics (0.99C)
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2016, 09:32:45 pm »
Have you tried power maces?  I remember those working.

I did also capture a few with psi, but as you realized its a pretty tough option.

I haven't tried anything really. I didn't even meet them in my game yet.
I wrote a program, which obtains all obtainable items and aliens and researches all researchable topics... this is what was left.
I then checked the ruleset to see if I had a bug in the program somewhere, but I couldn't find anything wrong so I reported all these items to Dioxine as potential (and very likely) bugs.

Let him check and we'll see.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 09:38:23 pm by Meridian »

Offline Arthanor

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2488
  • XCom Armoury Quartermaster
    • View Profile
Re: Redundant/unreachable research topics (0.99C)
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2016, 10:16:48 pm »
Since I play "Piratemon" and I "gotta catch 'em all", I did catch a waspite using power maces. There are quite a few enemies which high stun resists which are catchable using weapons with good "ToStun" values and different damage types. Hell, even a hammer might work if you're lucky enough to bring something close to death but not quite there yet.

Regardless, cleaning up the tree is a commendable goal. I certainly support efforts to do so.

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5412
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: Redundant/unreachable research topics (0.99C)
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2016, 02:41:51 am »
I have checked, double checked and triple checked... please tell me which item from category 1 can be reached and how :)
I am 99.998% sure they are all unreachable.

I can tell you that neither "mega" weapon nor solmine demo charge can be reached, yet  - they're meant for missions and enemies not yet implemented. As for the rest, I recognize them all. If you must know, they're either rare loot, or bonus tech you get from developing other tech (like CYBERDISC_ARMOR_2). The remain are rare monsters, but Arthanor already explained that in length - just a combo of stun immunity + 70 psi power alone isn't a serious obstacle in capturing them.