different way of handling battlescape salvaging

[Yankes]

This will need one new thing in game, UFO can be aggressive. you cant run way from combat because UFO chase your plane

[moriarty]

that would be nice. it would have to be used sparingly, though... just imagine starting a game and having all your aircraft shot down within a few days... terrible.

perhaps it will only be triggered if the xcom troops are too successful... kind of like a special retaliation-type mission.

[luke83]

Just wanted to Bump this old thread, 2 years on but there are still some topics i would like to discuss again now version 1.0 is out and the modding community is here.

To Recap:
Transport craft remains on ground for X amount of secs to alloy salvage to take place ( allows for new mission type).
Alternately, Salvage team could be dispatched from base OR friendly nation to salvage UFO ( creates a different type of mission possibility)
Give AI ability to intercept our planes ( both Xcom and friendly nations), once again, more mission types.
More Active geoscape with friendly and non friendly nations to be active on geoscape...governments, gangs, alien, civilian...a whole world of possibility.

Side effects:
Stock arrives once you return to base

[pkrcel]

I'd say that the only thing "fair" and that would not be "nofun" is that instead of having the goods magically teleported back to home base, ANY item on the floor at mission end (then also dropped items by Xcom troopers) is instead automatically filed for *transfer* to the Mop Team home base.

That would follow the rules for tranfers between bases already in place, maybe with extra time due to the mop up.

I guess that should include injured troopers as well as live captured aliens.

Mechanics could be following:

 - Skyranger pinned to the crash site for ~15/30 min (minimum regroup time, site setup for the mopupteam and non-emergency takeoff)

 - Crash site disappears at take off and in Skyranger's home base you can see the goods being tranferred in the "transfer" management panel...just like it was sent from another base, but it isn't...it was 'sent' from the crash site.

 - Leaving Skyranger is NO LONGER FORCED TO GO TO HOME BASE DUE TO LOW FUEL (this was a cheap trick in the original to avoid having to handle inventory and team status if one wanted to go on 2+ consecutive battlescapes w/o returning to home base).
Of course inventory is updated right after debriefing from UFO recovery, and so is the team...a consecutive mission would require to use a reduced inventory.

Pros:
 - no boring management of mop up of crash sites
 - no useless management of transport crafts (which already isn't there for transfers between bases).
 - a little bit of consistency, a little bit of value added to geoscape (a VERY little bit), adds a little bit of depth

cons:
 - I guess requires a little bit of programming 
 - Not sure it is worth the shot of messing with the code.

[Falko]

not sure about the 15/30 min waiting but the rest i like
+1

[moriarty]

I guess that should include injured troopers as well as live captured aliens.

[...]
 - Leaving Skyranger is NO LONGER FORCED TO GO TO HOME BASE DUE TO LOW FUEL (this was a cheap trick in the original to avoid having to handle inventory and team status if one wanted to go on 2+ consecutive battlescapes w/o returning to home base).
Of course inventory is updated right after debriefing from UFO recovery, and so is the team...a consecutive mission would require to use a reduced inventory.

very resasonable, I like that approach. the ground time for mop-up operations should be ruleset-configurable, of course... default should probably be 0 to be most vanilla-like...

... of course I would absolutely like it to be non-0, plus I would love to have the possibility of recovery-retaliation missions... maybe something along the lines of "if there is a UFO on a less important mission (scouting, terror, research...) nearby ("within x thousand kilometers"), it will immediately fly towards the site and try land and attack the xcom troops on the ground...

[pkrcel]

very resasonable, I like that approach. the ground time for mop-up operations should be ruleset-configurable, of course... default should probably be 0 to be most vanilla-like...

I think that around my proposal the core mechanics are already 'there' in code:

 - inventory and team are updated as soon as the mission ends
 - loot is transferred to the base in zero time

so , I guess the only 2 thigns that needs tweaking or right out implementation in code are:

- transfer time of the 'looted' goods MAY be non-zero (ruleset determined, will need implementation most prolly)
- skyranger pinned to the crash site for X minutes (ruleset determined, MAY be already partly implemented....takeoff time is NOT zero in openXcom)

Wild guessing the moves on the codebase

 - tranfers are already there in code, only thing is that there should be a factory somewhere that spawns a transfer at mission end, following the same rules about distance between bases, but originating from the crash site coords.
Time should be MORE than a simple base tranfer but not "realistic" (it could take MONTHS to demolish an ufo to retrive the alloys  ),  implying there IS some mop up to do (not only the shipment of goods)
The "more factor" could be ruleset'ed of course, as a factor or a fixed set of ranges (1 day for a small scout, 2 days for a large one, 1 week for a terror ship, etc...). Of course "vanilla mode" makes all there ZEROS

 - Skyranger behaviour is already coded and I suspect there is ALREADY a takeoff delay, maybe not retrating from missions thou....and bottom line THIS is really irrelevant in the general terms of my proposal.

All in all, seems feasible from an external point of view with not ALL THAT MUCH tweaking the code, bit I could possibly be grossly mistaken.

[luke83]

not sure about the 15/30 min waiting but the rest i like
+1

Talking Game time not actual real world time right

[Yankes]

It could be full day (or more) of waiting for stuff, in 99% cases it will be 1s of play time. Every craft could have custom salvage time. Longest would be for clearing alien base, then supplyships and battleships and finally small scout that be one hour + delivery time.

[Solarius Scorch]

I like the Transfer idea for the new stuff. It's logical, simple and consistent with the game as it is now.

The other stuff... I don't think it would make any difference before the aliens learn to react to your movements and for example attack your craft.

[pkrcel]

I should need to clarify a thing thou, I was thinking of pinning the Skyranger (or any other craft) to the crash site for 15/30 min of game time for the troops recovery ONLY.

The scavenging would be done 'offline' by a specialized team and craft which is completely transparent to the player, exactly as it is now for the transfer between bases.

I think I got where one should modify the code to have the materials scavenged "transfer" instead of magically poppin' to the home base.

Methinks the relevant code is here: https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/blob/master/src/Battlescape/DebriefingState.cpp#L926


Anyway looking at the code, I now understand that my proposal needs A LOT of changes:

 - craft is re-equipped instantly as well some lines before the one linked,  that should change also.
 - team status is consequently updated elsewhere, and that ALSO should be changed.

All in all, definitely NOT trivial. 

[moriarty]

All in all, definitely NOT trivial. 

I guess you're right. we should also consider that it would make sense for the player to decide which items are taken into the skyranger directly instead of salvaged by other means. this should be restricted to small (aka equippable) and researched items, obviously.

once you have researched plasma weapons, for example, your soldiers will definitely take the alien's clips (and perhaps weapons) before leaving, lest they have another close encounter on the way home and lack the firepower to deal with it.

so yeah, not trivial at all, but worth it, I'd say

[wollow]

How about simply putting all the stuff in transfer mode to your base, like the transfer after a purchase? It would be neater if you could decide which base the stuff gets transported to but then you would need an extra menu screen for that.

Thematically it absolutely makes sense that xcom employs some mop up personell that cares for this kind of stuff.

[moriarty]

How about simply putting all the stuff in transfer mode to your base, like the transfer after a purchase?

yes, that is precisely what we are suggesting as a basic mechanism. unfortunately, it is not that simple...

[pkrcel]

I guess you're right. we should also consider that it would make sense for the player to decide which items are taken into the skyranger directly instead of salvaged by other means. this should be restricted to small (aka equippable) and researched items, obviously.

once you have researched plasma weapons, for example, your soldiers will definitely take the alien's clips (and perhaps weapons) before leaving, lest they have another close encounter on the way home and lack the firepower to deal with it.

so yeah, not trivial at all, but worth it, I'd say

How about simply putting all the stuff in transfer mode to your base, like the transfer after a purchase? It would be neater if you could decide which base the stuff gets transported to but then you would need an extra menu screen for that.

Thematically it absolutely makes sense that xcom employs some mop up personell that cares for this kind of stuff.

Well, this two things match, we could bring up a menu (like the transfer one) once debriefing ends, selecting target base for transfer and the items transferred.

Same applies to what you would like to put in the skyranger, thou.

But I think it's a bit overkill and detrimental from a gameplay perspective....too much paperwork after mission.

also:

once you have researched plasma weapons, for example, your soldiers will definitely take the alien's clips (and perhaps weapons) before leaving, lest they have another close encounter on the way home and lack the firepower to deal with it.

This implies that the Skyranger is not forced to go back to base with the low fuel trick to make sense(/use)....haven't yet looked in the code but this HAS to be somewhere else and, besides the clips are ALREDY counted and packed after mission so that you can recover bullets based on the actual number of bullets fired and then available in ALL the clips on the battlescape and ship's floor.

All in all, I'd be in favor of only touching the code to have the items not directly added to the base but transferred, this would be the sanest way to go IMHO., and could be kept vanilla simply havinf a transfer time of ZERO:

 - Less tinkering with the codebase
 - Simple modification in gameplay with no "hassle".

Strictly speaking, it's not trivial but it's far from impossible and MAYBE even close to 'manageable' adding a screen after debriefing and stuff...but I for one would NOT like to have it...it also clashes a bit with 'enforce storage limits', even if in part woulld be playing along ("hey I'm out of storage space...lemme CHOOSE what to plunder from that pesky Small scout recovery!").

So....dunno, maybe I should try forking the codebase and tinker there....but this gotta be really beyond my skills.


ALL of the other thigs being suggested are surely interesting but border EXTREMELY close to feature creepin' in.

Aggressive UFOs for instance are interesting, but they make for a COMPLETELY new game, which could be XCOM but NOT this openxcom....or even reinforcements during an ufo assalut/recovery.....intersting but mostly a chore in the current battlescape mechanics.

Also, say goodbye to your avengers against a battleship if we decide that UFO may pursue your crafts....