Author Topic: [FULL MOD] Awesome Guns (an awesome modification of the OpenXcom game)  (Read 30509 times)

The_Funktasm

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Re: [FULL MOD] Awesome Guns (updated 5th September 2016)
« Reply #60 on: October 20, 2016, 02:19:30 pm »
The only logic I can think of that makes plasma seem unworth adopting, is that maybe bullets are a luckily primitive weapon quite like swords would be against modern kevlar. Yeah, it's ripstop, it's strong. But it's for bullets. And if alien armor is for plasma, on the blindly adaptive logic of protecting from what you know best...

I dunno, it still seems like a stretch somehow. Granted, it would be a stretch if they worked the same or better after being reworked by someone who doesn't understand them as well as the original creators. So I'd I guess argue that it's on the preferable side of weird.


Weird to respond to a post on the one before it but I feel like I'm cluttering this thread a bit...

I would like to explain about magazine's size. I understand that this situation is not realistic, but it has been implemented for balancing. I have increased the magazine's size for conventional weapons and played a few days and now I have realized that idea to increase the magazine's size is not a good idea. It makes unpleasant and uninteresting the OpenXcom game. I will keep observing this situation and will correct mistakes, if they will be found.

I understand that. I mentioned before I know you're thinking of balance over realism. I've seen firsthand how weird realism can make the game. Ammo belts of 100 in LMGs never are expended enough to repurchase, that sort of thing. It's why I mentioned that it's just one of my personal hangups where it comes to your mod. I think the only fair thing to say is that maybe you should give a few weapons a minor clip increase if only due to what the graphic advertises. Like your sniper rifle is a semi-auto as far as the sprite shows. But it holds less than a bolt-action rifle. Like I said, personal taste. Balance is important in its own right, but little things get to me. I figure you can consider me a half a review since I'm as particular as I am. It only counts for so much from a picky person, I suppose.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 03:05:48 pm by The_Funktasm »

Offline CanadianBeaver

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Re: [FULL MOD] Awesome Guns (updated 5th September 2016)
« Reply #61 on: October 20, 2016, 02:32:42 pm »
Man... I like this mod, I do, but I have to play a modified custom version, because I'm just that anal about realistic magazine sizes. Otherwise it's just about perfect. I just get weird about things like that, personally. That and the amount of pellets per shot-shell. That kind of irks me too, but still.

I understand that balance is the overriding concern here and not fine realism. Perfectly understandable. Vanilla XCOM really doesn't have enough options for the soldiers they give us. Not enough choices that work with everyone's strengths or weaknesses. This mod solves that, at least partially.

I would like to explain about magazine's size. I understand that this situation is not realistic, but it has been implemented for balancing. I have increased the magazine's size for conventional weapons and played a few days and now I have realized that idea to increase the magazine's size is not a good idea. It makes unpleasant and uninteresting the OpenXcom game. I will keep observing this situation and will correct mistakes, if they will be found.

Offline Zyzyfer

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Re: [FULL MOD] Awesome Guns (updated 5th September 2016)
« Reply #62 on: October 20, 2016, 07:27:14 pm »
The only logic I can think of that makes plasma seem unworth adopting, is that maybe bullets are a luckily primitive weapon quite like swords would be against modern kevlar. Yeah, it's ripstop, it's strong. But it's for bullets. And if alien armor is for plasma, on the blindly adaptive logic of protecting from what you know best...

I dunno, it still seems like a stretch somehow. Granted, it would be a stretch if they worked the same or better after being reworked by someone who doesn't understand them as well as the original creators. So I'd I guess argue that it's on the preferable side of weird.
Firstly, Kevlar is also used against knifes- commonly referred to as "knifeproof body armour" - it is not just vs bullets. One can also look at it as alien armour being an advancement over conventional armour (the Alien species is older that human one so while the human species rely mostly on kinetic projectile type weapons, the aliens have advanced onwards).
So while alien Armour is geared towards protecting vs plasma weapons (& it  does this well), kinetic projectile weapons are even less effective as Alien Armour is advancement of earlier kinetic projectile type armours.

Secondly, WWII (as an example), shows us abundant examples of reverse engineering that resulted in design(s) on par and/or arguably even better than original. So lack of understanding (as compared to original creators), would/should have little to do with it- besides the alien plasma would still be stronger because it does more point damage over converted plasma weapons.

Point being I don't see a huge problem with the logic. Practically it would be easy to mod such change. Game-wise I might actually use the converted weapons... because right now maintaining ammo for them is a nightmare and they offer negligible advantage over conventional weaponary utilising HE/acid/AP ammo.



« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 07:46:20 pm by Zyzyfer »

The_Funktasm

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Re: [FULL MOD] Awesome Guns (updated 5th September 2016)
« Reply #63 on: October 21, 2016, 01:14:09 am »
Firstly, Kevlar is also used against knifes- commonly referred to as "knifeproof body armour" - it is not just vs bullets. One can also look at it as alien armour being an advancement over conventional armour (the Alien species is older that human one so while the human species rely mostly on kinetic projectile type weapons, the aliens have advanced onwards).
So while alien Armour is geared towards protecting vs plasma weapons (& it  does this well), kinetic projectile weapons are even less effective as Alien Armour is advancement of earlier kinetic projectile type armours.

Secondly, WWII (as an example), shows us abundant examples of reverse engineering that resulted in design(s) on par and/or arguably even better than original. So lack of understanding (as compared to original creators), would/should have little to do with it- besides the alien plasma would still be stronger because it does more point damage over converted plasma weapons.

Point being I don't see a huge problem with the logic. Practically it would be easy to mod such change. Game-wise I might actually use the converted weapons... because right now maintaining ammo for them is a nightmare and they offer negligible advantage over conventional weaponary utilising HE/acid/AP ammo.

Ok, the Germans may have been pretty impressive technologically but they were a far cry from aliens. Especially considering we got the same scientists to work for us.

And I thought kevlar was rip-stop and could protect from slashes but without impact plates was almost useless against a combat knife point stab just on the basis of sharp wedge meets fabric.

Offline Zyzyfer

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Re: [FULL MOD] Awesome Guns (updated 5th September 2016)
« Reply #64 on: October 21, 2016, 04:50:20 pm »
Ok, the Germans may have been pretty impressive technologically but they were a far cry from aliens. Especially considering we got the same scientists to work for us.
Interrogation of alien scientists/engineers can do wonders; almost like they were working for us XDDD


Quote
And I thought Kevlar was rip-stop and could protect from slashes but without impact plates was almost useless against a combat knife point stab just on the basis of sharp wedge meets fabric.
Without impact plates Kevlar is also "almost useless" against rifle rounds. There are also a lot of rounds that rip right through a I & IIA vest. You probably need a IIIA vest to protect you from most handguns threats  apart form the big boys say for an example the  460 or 500 S&W magnum that are pretty much rifle rounds in revolvers.
You also don't have to go through it, if you dump enough power to cause trauma that will hurt or possibly stop your heart and kill you, so you better be investing in trauma plates too.

So basically it all depends but now I am digressing.

Offline CanadianBeaver

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Re: [FULL MOD] Awesome Guns (updated 5th September 2016)
« Reply #65 on: November 08, 2016, 02:12:57 pm »
I'd just up the armour modifiers of Aliens to plasma damage to make it at least on par with AP resistance.
As it stands [looking at the code] with most alien species its pretty much worse than AP.
Considering the materials to build the converted plasma weapons and ammo (some that cannot be manufactured/must be salvaged), are quite hard to come buy there should be at least a modest reward for using them (right now it just doesn't feel like it).

I guess on the flip side (another way to go), is to make it even harder to acquire materials to make converted weapons/ammo but give the converted weapons a clear advantage if one does manage to acquire them & be able to maintain the ammo for them.
Otherwise I am liking everything else, particularly love the changes to interceptors/dog fights, & I always liked using the conventional weapons even while playing vanilla Xcom (so I particularly love this aspect of the mod).

Yes, you are right. I have increased the damage of CONVERTED weapon. Thank you for advice.

--- posts merged - Solarius Scorch ---

I understand that. I mentioned before I know you're thinking of balance over realism. I've seen firsthand how weird realism can make the game. Ammo belts of 100 in LMGs never are expended enough to repurchase, that sort of thing. It's why I mentioned that it's just one of my personal hangups where it comes to your mod. I think the only fair thing to say is that maybe you should give a few weapons a minor clip increase if only due to what the graphic advertises. Like your sniper rifle is a semi-auto as far as the sprite shows. But it holds less than a bolt-action rifle. Like I said, personal taste. Balance is important in its own right, but little things get to me. I figure you can consider me a half a review since I'm as particular as I am. It only counts for so much from a picky person, I suppose.

The_Funktasm, sorry for late response. May I ask you, what weapon clip should be increased?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 03:47:30 pm by Solarius Scorch »

The_Funktasm

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Re: [FULL MOD] Awesome Guns (updated 5th September 2016)
« Reply #66 on: November 08, 2016, 11:35:42 pm »
Yes, you are right. I have increased the damage of CONVERTED weapon. Thank you for advice.

--- posts merged - Solarius Scorch ---

The_Funktasm, sorry for late response. May I ask you, what weapon clip should be increased?

I think the sniper rifles could use somewhat rounded up in size magazines. Like 5 and 10 instead of 3 and 5. The assault rifle would also make a bit more sense with a 20 round magazine compared to the existing I think it was 15. I dunno. In any case I'm not sure how useful my opinions are since they may not go with the intended balance of the mod.

Offline CanadianBeaver

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Re: [FULL MOD] Awesome Guns
« Reply #67 on: November 09, 2016, 02:57:22 am »
I would like to inform, that Awesome Guns modification has been updated to the new minor release (1.4):
  • List order of facilities and prices have been corrected
  • Regions of the USA and Canada have been corrected
  • Damage of CONVERTED PLASMA weapon has been increased
  • Reaction fire for launchers was fixed
  • AUTO CANNON has been balanced
  • Some images have been improved
  • see all changes

Download release 1.4

Offline CanadianBeaver

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Re: [FULL MOD] Awesome Guns
« Reply #68 on: November 23, 2016, 07:03:03 am »
I would like to announce that additional modification, AwesomeGuns.Laser has been updated to new 1.5 version.

In this version the Laser Flare has been implemented (Power of Electro Flare has been decreased).

https://www.openxcom.com/mod/awesome-guns-laser

« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 02:31:43 pm by CanadianBeaver »

Offline ThirtyFour

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Re: [FULL MOD] Awesome Guns
« Reply #69 on: December 06, 2016, 11:46:26 pm »
What version of nightlies is the latest version of this mod compatable with?

Offline CanadianBeaver

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Re: [FULL MOD] Awesome Guns
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2016, 12:32:36 am »
What version of nightlies is the latest version of this mod compatable with?

The Awesome Guns modification has been developed and tested for the OpenXcom version 1.0. There is no purpose for compatibility with the OpenXcom nightly, but the Awesome Guns modification works well on each version of OpenXcom nightly, except the cities on the globe (see the AwesomeGuns.Cities).
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 12:34:52 am by CanadianBeaver »

Offline Mr. Quiet

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Re: [FULL MOD] Awesome Guns
« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2016, 02:38:19 am »
I suppose I don't just put this mod into the mod folder in documents.

Does the download file "AwesomeGuns-master" in your website have Lasers and Cities included? I ask because I would like to run your main mod with the Terrain Pack mod, so the Cities addon of your mod probably is incompatible with Terrain Pack by Hobbes. Thanks.

Offline CanadianBeaver

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Re: [FULL MOD] Awesome Guns
« Reply #72 on: December 07, 2016, 03:11:13 am »
I suppose I don't just put this mod into the mod folder in documents.

  • Copy the extracted Ruleset/AwesomeGuns.rul file into your openxcom/data/Ruleset folder.
  • Copy the extracted Resources/AwesomeGuns folder into your openxcom/data/Resources folder.

PS: For OpenXcom nightly you should put the AwesomeGuns folder (AwesomeGuns-master or AwesomeGuns-[released_version]) into your openxcom/user/mods folder

Does the download file "AwesomeGuns-master" in your website have Lasers and Cities included? I ask because I would like to run your main mod with the Terrain Pack mod, so the Cities addon of your mod probably is incompatible with Terrain Pack by Hobbes. Thanks.

Yes, it does. Awesome Guns modification contains all features and you don not need to install the satellited modifications (AwesomeGuns.Laser and AwesomeGuns.Cities).
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 03:20:10 am by CanadianBeaver »

Offline Mr. Quiet

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Re: [FULL MOD] Awesome Guns
« Reply #73 on: December 07, 2016, 06:13:45 am »
Thanks for the clear answers.

So I noticed Laser Weapons was already on my research list from the start. After researching it, I unlocked every laser weapon in the mod. Then I disabled Robin's alien race mods, Waspites, Anthropods and the Gazers (I don't like MIB), and that fixed it. I hope you can add them in later, at least Waspites and don't put MIB in hehehe.

Another question. Does enabling any of the Advanced/Mod options that are already in OXC break anything? I had Improved Base and Improved Heavy Laser checked.

Offline CanadianBeaver

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Re: [FULL MOD] Awesome Guns
« Reply #74 on: December 08, 2016, 04:46:27 am »
...Waspites, Anthropods and the Gazers (I don't like MIB), and that fixed it. I hope you can add them in later, at least Waspites and don't put MIB in hehehe.

I avoid making changes in alien's missions or UFOs so far. There are a few mods for improving alien behaviour and they work fine with Awesome Guns modification. I recommend to use these mods:

- Lukes Expanded Terror Mission
- Solar's New UFOs (be careful, only version 1.1 is for stable game's release)

And yes, I am thinking about extending the alien races.

Another question. Does enabling any of the Advanced/Mod options that are already in OXC break anything? I had Improved Base and Improved Heavy Laser checked.

The Awesome Guns is FULL modification, therefore I ask to set all option "NO", especially:
- Aliens Pick Up Weapons (Awesome Guns set this option to ON)
- UFOextender Gun Melee (Awesome Guns set this option to ON for several type of weapon, ex: rifles, shotgun and heavy cannon)
- UFOExtender Starting Avalanches (Awesome Guns has their own starting schema)
- XcomUTIL High Explosive Damage (Awesome Gun introduces balanced Grenades and Explosives)
- XcomUTIL Improved Ground Tanks (Awesome Gun introduces balanced Tanks and HWP)
- XcomUTIL Improved Heavy Laser (Awesome Gun has their own Laser Weapon Arsenal)
- XcomUTIL No Psionics (some kind of weapon depends on Psionic research in the Awesome Guns)
- XcomUTIL Pistol Auto Shot (it makes game unbalanced, Awesome Guns introduces the Machine Pistol)
- XcomUTIL Starting Defense/Defensive Improved/Improved Base (all three options should be OFF, Awesome Guns has their own starting schema)

I recommend to set ON for:
- UFOextender Psionic Line of fire before 1.5 release (especially if you play IRONMAN), from 1.5 release Awesome Guns has their own property for psionics
- XcomUTIL Statstrings (if you prefer to see more information in the name of the soldiers)
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 05:23:40 pm by CanadianBeaver »