Author Topic: Make Chryssalids Great Again  (Read 28047 times)

Offline Surrealistik

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Make Chryssalids Great Again
« on: July 28, 2016, 09:50:54 am »
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GQK-BSID0jsuthiUQmC7Sq1mW-JJXQYt6pqcH3GQRP8/edit?usp=sharing

If you scroll down, you will see this proposal includes special abilities such as regeneration, spitting (spitting creates zombies when it would kill a human target, but that zombie is sterile; it however, will only utilize this when it can't pathfind to a target), invisibility, and a new UFOpaedia entry for the interrogation and autopsy.

Essentially the Alpha Chryssalid is a weaponized version of the Chryssalid species the Star Gods devised after getting frustrated by all the usual countermeasures to the creature. You would probably find these in small numbers on Terror Ships/Cruisers/Hideouts.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 08:44:24 pm by Surrealistik »

Offline nrafield

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Re: Make Chryssalids Great Again
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2016, 11:02:01 am »
Personally I think what would make them great again is if their self-preservation instinct stopped being so dominant over the urge to procreate. It does not help them at all.

Offline Boltgun

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Re: Make Chryssalids Great Again
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2016, 11:21:41 am »
Personally I think what would make them great again is if their self-preservation instinct stopped being so dominant over the urge to procreate. It does not help them at all.

Setting aggression to 2 would be a start.

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Make Chryssalids Great Again
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2016, 11:25:01 am »
Personally I think what would make them great again is if their self-preservation instinct stopped being so dominant over the urge to procreate. It does not help them at all.

True, though flying still makes them laughable ASF.

Offline hellrazor

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Re: Make Chryssalids Great Again
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2016, 01:08:57 pm »
If you like download my Mod and slap on a New Battle snakeman Terror mission.
I exclusively use aggression: 2 for chryssalids so they will charge you and all civilians nearby.

The Modname is "Hardmode_Expansion" more Info's can be found Hardmode_Expansion

They will kick your asses!

Offline hellrazor

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Re: Make Chryssalids Great Again
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2016, 01:16:55 pm »
True, though flying still makes them laughable ASF.

Chryssalid Spitters will teach you that they still can zombify you :P

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Make Chryssalids Great Again
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2016, 06:02:17 pm »
Yeah Hellrazor's Chryssalid Spitters are around for a long time. But I don't know if this mod is the right place for upgraded Chryssalids, and even if so, this would need a special mission/deployment/other kind of complex work. Upgraded Chryssalids are on my 'maybe?' list for a year or 2 already.

Offline hellrazor

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Re: Make Chryssalids Great Again
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2016, 06:18:34 pm »
Yeah Hellrazor's Chryssalid Spitters are around for a long time. But I don't know if this mod is the right place for upgraded Chryssalids, and even if so, this would need a special mission/deployment/other kind of complex work. Upgraded Chryssalids are on my 'maybe?' list for a year or 2 already.

Sorry Dioxine, didn't realize this thread was in your subforum. You can delete the postings in questions if you want.

Otherwise its just a modplug again *lol*

EDIT: Giving normal Chryssalids agression: 2 still makes them more dangerous then before, I change you could consider.

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Make Chryssalids Great Again
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2016, 08:24:16 pm »
I think people may have only seen the stat block for my proposal.

If you scroll down, you will see it indeed includes special abilities such as regeneration, spitting (spitting creates zombies when it would kill a human target, but that zombie is sterile as wasn't implanted with an egg; it however, will only utilize this when it can't pathfind to a target), invisibility (their carapace features active camouflage like a chameleon), and a new UFOpaedia entry for the interrogation and autopsy.

Essentially the Alpha Chryssalid is a weaponized version of the Chryssalid species the Star Gods devised after getting frustrated by all the usual countermeasures to the creature (600 years is a long time to improve on their basic design). You would probably find these in small numbers on Terror Ships/Cruisers/Hideouts.

I'll update my OP.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 08:52:15 pm by Surrealistik »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Make Chryssalids Great Again
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2016, 09:28:25 pm »
Essentially the Alpha Chryssalid is a weaponized version of the Chryssalid species the Star Gods devised after getting frustrated by all the usual countermeasures to the creature (600 years is a long time to improve on their basic design).

That doesn't fit in the lore at all. First, 600 years is a blink of an eye as far as the Ethereal civilization goes. Second, they only innovate if they find something to steal (that's how they got everything besides their psi). Third, Earth is no longer important. If anyone, Church might be interested in breeding better chryssalids (because they want everything more perfect).

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Make Chryssalids Great Again
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2016, 09:55:51 pm »
That doesn't fit in the lore at all. First, 600 years is a blink of an eye as far as the Ethereal civilization goes. Second, they only innovate if they find something to steal (that's how they got everything besides their psi). Third, Earth is no longer important. If anyone, Church might be interested in breeding better chryssalids (because they want everything more perfect).

Law of accelerating returns pretty much demands that unless the Ethereals (and their brain overlord(s)) were effectively committed to stasis, there would be innovations on their existing tech if not substantial innovations/improvements. Maybe in the Piratez universe this is indeed the case; I'm sure I haven't gotten anywhere near all of the fluff techs done.

But if for whatever reason the Ethereals have in 600 years made minimal to no technological progress (the plasma blaster being about the only innovation I've seen, maybe Slave AIs) despite their immense level of existing sophistication in the 90s, then the Church could certainly go about doing that.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 10:14:44 pm by Surrealistik »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Make Chryssalids Great Again
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2016, 11:14:35 pm »
 :o Citing that law as a reason why the setting that Dioxine created can't work like Dioxine intends it to is weird. It's not like it's a law of nature either (unlike say.. Newton's laws or the laws of thermodynamic). There are plenty of stagnating sci-fi settings and the Piratez setting does seem like a decadent empire. Where XCom is typically optimistic (aliens invade, humans band together, learn all their tech and kick their butts), Piratez is quite a dystopia and nothing progresses much (technology is still generally inferior to alien tech from XCom:EU) besides the gals who are developing stuff very rapidly.

Maybe the Star Gods could develop a new better chryssalid, but it would likely be used wherever the front of their war is, not on a backwater hellhole like Earth, except maybe as a test location. But Earth already fell in Piratez during the first invasion, so they might not be the best to test a new weapon either.

The idea of the church experimenting to create an even deadlier alien life form is interesting and between celatids and chryssalids, they have all the traits they need to splice together in order to make it happen.

The only thing left is balancing it so that it's not weaker (it could be, since if spitting doesn't further the infestation), nor too strong, which seems to rely more on AI than on stats, something that can't be modded but could potentially be played with by someone inclined to alter the code, if Dioxine is interested.

Personally, increasing the aggression values of some melee enemies (reapers especially) so they stop being so shy and go for it if they can bite even only once, would already improve the situation. I've had plenty of chryssalids walk up to gals but not strike, and plenty of reapers peaking out then hiding again behind a fence, where they can be hit by flamethrowers or cannons safely.

Offline Star_Treasure

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Re: Make Chryssalids Great Again
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2016, 12:28:21 am »
Personally I think what would make them great again is if their self-preservation instinct stopped being so dominant over the urge to procreate. It does not help them at all.

Fist chryssalid I saw in Piratez ran away from me. My gals shot it, but they didn't kill it, so I sent one to CDG it. It woke up in her arms, and then proceeded to RUN AWAY AGAIN, before being shot dead.

If it had just attacked, I would have been totally fucked.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Make Chryssalids Great Again
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2016, 12:49:36 am »
Law of accelerating returns pretty much demands that unless the Ethereals (and their brain overlord(s)) were effectively committed to stasis, there would be innovations on their existing tech if not substantial innovations/improvements. Maybe in the Piratez universe this is indeed the case; I'm sure I haven't gotten anywhere near all of the fluff techs done.

Law of accelerating must hit the ceiling at some point unless a civilization develops and keeps developing intelligences surpassing their own brain power. From what is known, Ethereals did this only once to create brains in jars. Also such a civilization must keep ever-growing records and research facilities.
Also, to innovate upon something, the tech in question has to be understood. If the divide between understood tech and maximum tech is too wide (intermediate techs are lost), innovation is impossible.
It is not clear if Ethereals and their brains understand their own tech. It is fully possible that original creators of their tech are dead or no longer in possession of required knowledge.
If the Ethereal tech is fully understood only by their 'priesthood', and any external knowledge is supressed, it also blocks improvement.
Another of endless possibilities is commitment/understanding of only select areas of high tech (probably mathematics in the case of Ethereals).

Offline Yankes

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Re: Make Chryssalids Great Again
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2016, 01:23:40 am »
Law of accelerating must hit the ceiling at some point unless a civilization develops and keeps developing intelligences surpassing their own brain power. From what is known, Ethereals did this only once to create brains in jars. Also such a civilization must keep ever-growing records and research facilities.
Also, to innovate upon something, the tech in question has to be understood. If the divide between understood tech and maximum tech is too wide (intermediate techs are lost), innovation is impossible.
It is not clear if Ethereals and their brains understand their own tech. It is fully possible that original creators of their tech are dead or no longer in possession of required knowledge.
If the Ethereal tech is fully understood only by their 'priesthood', and any external knowledge is supressed, it also blocks improvement.
Another of endless possibilities is commitment/understanding of only select areas of high tech (probably mathematics in the case of Ethereals).
Another possibility is that current human civilization is exception even for humans. Rome exists for over 1000 and do not have air crafts, China have around 4k years, ancient Egypt had up to 5k years. Mayans over 3k. And nobody show development similar to us.

Most of technology was lost with beginning of middle ages. We catch up in hundred years and surpass Rome in another 500.