Effective uses of Ghost armour?

[karadoc]

I kind of like the idea of having stealth assassins sneaking around an slaying enemies while unseen; which is what ghost armour can do. But I haven't had much success so far.

The problem as I see it is roughly this: a soldier needs to be pretty well trained to use the armour effectively. (The need high psi skills, and high melee for the dagger.) So ghost soldiers are not simply throw-away cannon fodder. They need to be looked after. However, the protection of ghost armour is very low and the invisibility effect is unpredictable (as far as I know). So... maybe the ghost soldiers don't get shot at 7/8ths of the time, because of invisibility, but in that other 1/8th, they just die.

Ghost soldiers die easily to a stray grenade, or reaction fire. The invisibility effect is strong, but without some way of predicting whether or not the enemy will be able to see me, I can't see how to use the armour without very high risk of getting the soldier killed.


I'm interested to hear how people are using their ghost armour, and whether they think it's useful.

[ivandogovich]

I have found it quite useful, and employed to very good it before I ever had witch armor.
 
The key to thinking about Ghost armor in my experience is cat girls.   You can only be seen on the diagonal with Ghost armor.  Like catgirls, you are squishy too.  So think like a cat.  Don't disembark the first turn unless you have cover.  The long sight distances may get you spotted sooner.  Ghost armor thrives in tight spaces like UFO interiors because you can end your turn in a corner with only one vulnerable access.  I like to use ghost armor both as a spotter and an assassin.  Most missions my ghost gets 2-4 kills. It demolishes Marsec and Orison security, and I've been successful with power armor too.

[Dioxine]

So ghost soldiers are not simply throw-away cannon fodder.

Here, you got your answer right there As far as I'm concerned, that means the design meets the intention.

[karadoc]

You can only be seen on the diagonal with Ghost armor.

I did not know this, and this makes all the difference for me.

From my point of view, it just seemed pseudo-random whether or not I could be seen. I haven't worked out when I can or cannot see cat girls either. I just try different angles until I see them. So with the ghost armour, without being able to predict whether or not I'll be seen, I never felt safe unless I was behind a wall or something. It felt like basically a less effective version of an ordinary melee soldier.

But if I know that the diagonals are how I'm seen, then I can use that to my advantage. I can know when I'll be safe and when I won't. And so I think I'll be able to get a lot more use out of it. Thanks.

[legionof1]

yeah diagonals are the usual way you get seen in ghost armor. Mind that these are not always the diagonal squares, your facing and range of observer matters as well. What is actually "visible" is some fraction of your characters side or arms when observed from acute angles.

It like how you can take side armor damage when shot from the front because the projectile actually strikes a part of the model deemed side armor. The invisibility functions be rendering portions of the model as having no collision which the game checks for both rendering visibility and hits from projectiles.

[karadoc]

yeah diagonals are the usual way you get seen in ghost armor. Mind that these are not always the diagonal squares, your facing and range of observer matters as well. What is actually "visible" is some fraction of your characters side or arms when observed from acute angles.

It like how you can take side armor damage when shot from the front because the projectile actually strikes a part of the model deemed side armor. The invisibility functions be rendering portions of the model as having no collision which the game checks for both rendering visibility and hits from projectiles.

Interesting. So it's a bit complicated, and it's not really clear to me what the best ways to avoid being seen are - but at least I now know that there are ways to have some control over it. I'll try to work it out. For a start, to avoid having the character's sides seen from acute angles I might try turning side-on to my enemies. From what you've said that might help avoid being seen... but on the other hand, I don't really know which angles are important; so it might turn out to be the opposite affect of what I want. In any case, I'll try some stuff (and probably have a bunch of ghost soldier die before I work anything out.)

[legionof1]

yeah experiment and see what you find.

I haven't been able to quite pin it down myself as had very few gals worth fielding in ghost armor. I also have the notion from the behavior of invisible foes that it is not entirely predictable given the number of influencing factors that the player simply can't see. Exact angle of sight which varies depending on what is looking. The engine has pretty close to true line of sight drawing vision from a models "head" and line of fire from weapons. But we don't get to see what our gals see so hidden value. How exactly each "invisible" model has been structured from the perspective of the game engine. Couple of other factors that's is difficult to get good data on.

Most effective use i have had is to keep the ghosts at 12+ distance and face the known or expected direction of foes.   

[doctor medic]

But how invisibilite effect the memory of enemies who remember your last position,is invisibility moot if they go the direction they remembered you had gone?

[ivandogovich]

But how invisibilite effect the memory of enemies who remember your last position,is invisibility moot if they go the direction they remembered you had gone?

Good question.  Enemies with higher intelligence will "remember" spotting your soldier and subsequently track them (know where they are) for longer.  Invisibility would still affect their spotting/targeting ability though.  They may know where you are but if they can't see you, they can't target you.  Area weapons would work, but again, I think they only target something they can see.

[Arthanor]

Yes, but I am pretty sure the AI also knows every tiles from which it can draw LoS for targets it knows about. So it will walk directly to the nearest tile that allows it to see/shoot you, and proceed to murder you. Unlike us having to try every tile to see if our soldiers will see the catgirl.

For soldiers, invisibility is to survive by avoiding getting spotted. It does little against the AI once they have spotted you.