Re: The X-Com Files - 3.5: Whispers In The Dark

[mumble]

I've mentioned this with the colt, recommended giving colt a +10/25 armor but solair wouldn't have it. I think its a little too powerful too early, i agree. Honestly, I even think this should apply to magnums, they are an absolute STAPLE early on since they deal the highest damage till explosives / alien alloy ammo for rifles. I get they are powerful guns, but flat / rounded rounds are ALWAYS less efficient against armor than rifle rounds : kevlar for instance can stop small caliber pistols, but don't do crap against rifle rounds or blades : because the wider round has more opportunity to bounce rather than poke through. Granted, slugs and 44s may force through them / cause lethal blunt force trauma, but the kevlar will do more than it would for a rifle round. And even level 3a body armor in real life is rated for 44 magnums, so I think something really could be done. Not like a 10% extra armor would make a huge difference, even at 30 armor, its only 3 extra armor points, and 25 would still make them effective against all but really tough armor.

The corpse is WAD, its basically an analog for paying off officials to make the person show as ""missing"" while the weight is an analog for council investigators at your base nagging and slowing down your operations, till you pay up.

Hey solair, any chance we could get a pistol and sniper variety of the magma industries cannon?

maybe a pistol which drains energy to fires because its so damn hard on the wrist, or inflicts a little morale damage (my damn wrist is bruised after 1 shot jeez!) but fires light cannon rounds, with a high dependence on strength for any semblance of accuracy?

The idea of an uber heavy, crazy badass "pistol" to replace the workhorse magnum would be pretty sweet, even if it was unwieldy as fuck. And with only 4 shots, it would be a pretty niche weapon... Though honestly it would give an (imo) needed item to late game xcom agents : a backup weapon which is potent, and multi purpose. And I imagine it would be very good for "hunts".

Also, I think it would be neat for missions in cults which interact with civilians : maybe an underground fight ring for lotus (to acquire gambling funds, and get recruits, and gain fame from martial arts prowess), dagon holding a cult complex to convert wayward souls, red dawn moving stuff on a military base / forcing a bio lab to work on storm, and exalt doing the same with a tech company to produce psiclone. I know the cults are technically done, but this would be good to 1, diversify the lore for the cults, and 2, make missions which have a bit more difficult arrangements...don't want to accidentally shoot a scientist or bigwig whos caught up working with a cult, after all. I think it might be a good idea to mix them up half and half between the small hideouts which seem rather generic, and would certainly make things interesting... And could allow for research opportunities

[niculinux]

I've mentioned this with the colt, recommended giving colt a +10/25 armor but solair wouldn't have it. I think its a little too powerful too early, i agree.

I too agree on that. According to ufopedia has 30 damage, I'd personally for a range between 25-28.

[Solarius Scorch]

Okay, let me be honest about it: this gun system has already outgrown my understanding and ambitions. I delegate most of these things to Dioxine, so I guess it's up to him.
It doesn't mean I don't care about this, but I'm more of a creative director than the creator in regards to gun stats. So we'll see what he says.

[Dioxine]

I wouldn't take Magum over even an MP-5, personally... It's neither long range enough to compete with MP-5 and rifles, and not damaging enough to compete with shotguns or sniper rifles... And not accurate enough to compete with either... it illustrates that raw power isn't the only factor that counts... It is a good jack-of-all-trades weapon, no doubt, there are valid playstyles it lends to very well, but it's hardly overpowering.

More generally speaking, I don't see a reason for nerfing pistols (since worse armor pen for Colt immediately makes beretta/glock/snubnose a better choice, then you need to nerf their armor pen too, etc...). There is little reason (IMO) to use them at all once full-sized weapons become available. Perhaps the only exception is Glock, which allows to put so much lead in the air (with decent accuracy) that it keeps its usefulness as a backup weapon to wear down unarmored, healthy targets (zombos once close range, blobs, dogs...). Strangely nobody complains about Glocks...

[mumble]

the bit about berretas being better is hyper dependent on target in question actually. As far as I know the armor thing, it would more taper off colt / magnum to be more COMPARABLE to other pistols than rifle rounds, when compared to an armored target

Lets take a +25% armor, with a 40 armor target (just for example).

The armor jump would be 10 points

A berreta at 23 damage, with a max roll damage of 46. Enough to penetrate the armor or 40 obviously, but making it a majority bullet resistant.

A colt at 30 damage would have a max roll damage of 60, but with the 25% extra armor, any rolls under 50 are now blocked. Its not much, but it makes options like the AK47 more potent, and makies taking on armored goons with a colt much less viable.

Obviously both pistols indeed work, but colt is still better per shot, it just isnt as exponentially better vs armor.

As for the glock, I don't mind because it still a relatively low damage, but high damage like 30 or 38 ends up making the armor in many enemies, or even kevlar early on slightly pointless

Also, I'm not for lowering the damage of the colt 45, just amplifying how it effects armor.

[Solarius Scorch]

Division of labour aside, I will only consider adding AP penalty to pistols if the Stats for Nerds feature becomes reality. Without it, this is just too expensive to maintenance.

[mumble]

Honestly I'm not for pistols in general getting it : I guess you could use the nitro express as a good example : the whole idea with that gun is it EXCELS at killing squishy targets very easily, while a high quality armor vest or armor plating will make it bounce off

this honestly isn't necessary for glocks or others because they are already well mitigated by armor CURRENTLY : a glock can sometimes be resisted by kevlar, and is almost always resisted by the heavier combat armor.

When using a colt however, the only differences are TU usage, weight, accuracy, and magazine size : a colt still use just as effective against an armored target point blank as a blackops rifle bullet is. Magnums go slightly further though, being most effective outuside shotgun slugs until larger sniper rifles are had, and with no real downside outside of a range trumped by a rifle.

The whole issue is specifically LARGE and COMMON pistols, which are comparable to rifle rounds in damage, but the large, fat, rounded, non AP bullet is still just as, or more effective (in the case of the magnum) at going through armor than your bread and butter blackops rifle : which seems very odd

honestly I find this particularly strange since you gave m16s an armor piercing effect, yet don't want to give a meager +25% armor  to the 2 pistols in question, even though both would still remain a risk in the areas used.

honestly its not a huge issue, but it is a big nagging thing in the back of my mind why a 45 pierces armor just as good as a 7.62.

[tkzv]

Zombie Trooper Autopsy text mentions the parasite, but it's possible to reach this point before discovering the parasite, since it is gained in a random mission.

Same for Tomb Guardian description.

UPDATE: Finished all available zombie missions up to vampire castle in 1998. First got zombie parasite and brainwashed farmer in July 1999.
I managed to finish Red Dawn arc without ever getting durathread. Is it unavailable anywhere else?

[mumble]

maybe injectors, or the odd fat zombie should drop a parasite...honestly they are cheap enough, I wonder if they should just be present with any zombie mission. It would better explain the spread to be honest.

[Solarius Scorch]

Honestly I'm not for pistols in general getting it : I guess you could use the nitro express as a good example : the whole idea with that gun is it EXCELS at killing squishy targets very easily, while a high quality armor vest or armor plating will make it bounce off(...)

All points taken. This won't be off the table, but there are more pressing matters to attend to first.

Zombie Trooper Autopsy text mentions the parasite, but it's possible to reach this point before discovering the parasite, since it is gained in a random mission.

Same for Tomb Guardian description.

There were similar issues with vanilla. I personally think it's an acceptable simplification. Otherwise all Zombie autopsies would require knowing the parasite first, and that would be weird.

I managed to finish Red Dawn arc without ever getting durathread. Is it unavailable anywhere else?

but half the Red Dawn guys drop durathread...

maybe injectors, or the odd fat zombie should drop a parasite...honestly they are cheap enough, I wonder if they should just be present with any zombie mission. It would better explain the spread to be honest.

I can't remember if research can give you an item. This could be a solution. Still, it's not very elegant.

[tkzv]

but half the Red Dawn guys drop durathread...

Yes, it's weird. It never appears in the loot. I unlocked "finish the RD" research around January 1998 and have been avoiding it 6 game months. Should I post a savegame?

P.S. You said "drop". Does it mean it only appears on the dead bodies?

P.P.S. Yes, it does. I've been skipping missions in debug mode, trying to take as many live prisoners as possible. Just wanted to see the changes in the new version, but didn't have time for proper playthrough. When I tried to skip a mission by killing everybody, I got 3 "corpses recovered" and 3 pieces of durathread.

How does this mechanic work? What other enemies yield useful stuff that way?

[Solarius Scorch]

How does this mechanic work? What other enemies yield useful stuff that way?

It definitely isn't common. I don't think there's another item like that at the moment.

[tkzv]

It definitely isn't common. I don't think there's another item like that at the moment.

I recall having trouble getting "Alien Electronics" in 0.6.7. Was it dropped from Cyberweb bodies? For some reason I can't remember I preferred dart guns, tazer pistols and stun rods.

[Solarius Scorch]

I recall having trouble getting "Alien Electronics" in 0.6.7. Was it dropped from Cyberweb bodies? For some reason I can't remember I preferred dart guns, tazer pistols and stun rods.

No, Alien Electronics can only be extracted from alien robots. Cyberweb uses Earth tech, only on steroids.

[Taberone]

Any way to override the "Mission complete - Returning to Base" behavior after I complete a mission? Having to return to base after every mission before I can respond to another one is a bit weird, and by the time my agents finally return to base the missions will usually have despawned. Being able to respond to (and try to complete) multiple missions in one go (at the cost of not being able to resupply since you're not returning to base and managing craft inventory) would be nice.