Re: The X-Com Files - 3.5: Whispers In The Dark

[Solarius Scorch]

Worry not, the aliens will get a buff. Nothing outrageous, but I agree they are a bit too weak now, with all the toys you have and your maxed out soldiers. Plus it would make sense if they were stronger.

[zetzet13]

How about taking Arthanor's suggestion of making primitive/improvised/savage weapons a fluffy research topic with text but leaving them out of the shop.
During the early stages those items are gathered in sufficient quantities to be used by curious players.

As it is now the cluttering issue is merely pushed to the research screen which is already chock full of your marvelous ideas.
By leaving those items out of the shop, it won't be completely filled with useless items at the end of the game. By then every squaddie is running around with a blaster launcher anyway.


That being said I truly adore your work ever since you took over the FMP and can't wait to see this bud blossom.
Do you take donations by the way?

I also love Nord's recent artwork. Especially because it is in the same style as the original.


Sorry that I can't contribute anything else right now.

[Solarius Scorch]

How about taking Arthanor's suggestion of making primitive/improvised/savage weapons a fluffy research topic with text but leaving them out of the shop.
During the early stages those items are gathered in sufficient quantities to be used by curious players.

As it is now the cluttering issue is merely pushed to the research screen which is already chock full of your marvelous ideas.
By leaving those items out of the shop, it won't be completely filled with useless items at the end of the game. By then every squaddie is running around with a blaster launcher anyway.

Yes, but I don't want to forbid the players from buying stuff that can realistically be bought... Damn, maybe I'll just make a poll and ask what people want? But no promises I'll listen to the voice of the people if I get another idea.

That being said I truly adore your work ever since you took over the FMP and can't wait to see this bud blossom.

Thanks! It matters a lot.

Do you take donations by the way?

Not officially yet, since I think it's too early, but if someone wants to help me fund modding, please use this Paypal account:

I also love Nord's recent artwork. Especially because it is in the same style as the original.

Yeah, it's great!

Sorry that I can't contribute anything else right now.

No problem, every bit matters.

[Dreamsicle]

So I was able to beat the Red Dawn HQ mission by using lots of smoke grenades. I still had 4 die, but I finally finished it. Got some additional questions and feedback

1. How do I effectively take out Swarmids? Grenades work but I want to limit explosive use when in monster terror missions.

2. I'm not getting Church of Dagon Base attacks in my game which means I can't go for the HQ. I already researched Eldritch Language and I can't research any captured Dagon members. I'm only getting Cult Outpost or Activity from them. The actual invasion has started though and I think that might be why. I also took out the other 3 cults.

3. Speaking of I realized by February that my "role-playing" style by only operating agents from one base and only having at most 20 at any given time, until Promotion III was a bad idea as it took a while to get any landed UFO's for Alien Containment as many of the ones I could detect were out of Dragonfly range. It's mid-march and I was finally able to get a floater. Not a complaint or anything, just commenting on how badly I hampered myself.  Out of curiosity, how would you justify multiple bases of operation before military access in a narrative sense?

4. This might be because I put down Red Dawn before making the contact, but I am not able to buy any ammo for the light cannon even though I contacted the M.A.G.M.A Corp. Is my hypothesis right  or did something else happen?

I feel bad for not leaving a compliment but it's really hard to state all of my possible ones  so I'll say that I really loved the HQ tilesets and layouts along with the cult weapon variety.

Also regarding the "junk" research I like Arthanor's third option with regards to that. Keep up the good work! Can't wait to see what the next revision has in store.

[Solarius Scorch]

So I was able to beat the Red Dawn HQ mission by using lots of smoke grenades. I still had 4 die, but I finally finished it. Got some additional questions and feedback

Congratulations.

1. How do I effectively take out Swarmids? Grenades work but I want to limit explosive use when in monster terror missions.

You can also burn them with fire, it is very efficient against them. Otherwise you can try smoke or, if you're patient, plasma and chemicals.

2. I'm not getting Church of Dagon Base attacks in my game which means I can't go for the HQ. I already researched Eldritch Language and I can't research any captured Dagon members. I'm only getting Cult Outpost or Activity from them. The actual invasion has started though and I think that might be why. I also took out the other 3 cults.

It requires Cult of Dagon Operations, which must be gained from a Chosen (or Sorcerer, but you're unlikely to meet them).

3. Speaking of I realized by February that my "role-playing" style by only operating agents from one base and only having at most 20 at any given time, until Promotion III was a bad idea as it took a while to get any landed UFO's for Alien Containment as many of the ones I could detect were out of Dragonfly range. It's mid-march and I was finally able to get a floater. Not a complaint or anything, just commenting on how badly I hampered myself.  Out of curiosity, how would you justify multiple bases of operation before military access in a narrative sense?

x-Com is a UN organization after all, so it's not a big stretch to say they can establish a local branch almost anywhere. I like roleplayers and wouldn't want to make their life difficult, so if you have any suggestions, fire away.

4. This might be because I put down Red Dawn before making the contact, but I am not able to buy any ammo for the light cannon even though I contacted the M.A.G.M.A Corp. Is my hypothesis right  or did something else happen?

You must also be at Promotion II, or you won't get clearance for the Light Cannon.

I feel bad for not leaving a compliment but it's really hard to state all of my possible ones  so I'll say that I really loved the HQ tilesets and layouts along with the cult weapon variety.

Thank you! Most of them were made by other people anyway: EXALT HQ and Church of Dagon were mostly made by Dioxine, Black Lotus by Ryskeliini, and Red Dawn by Hobbes.

Also regarding the "junk" research I like Arthanor's third option with regards to that. Keep up the good work! Can't wait to see what the next revision has in store.

OK, thanks!

EDIT: I've had a talk with Dioxine regarding the simple weapons problem and he strongly supported the current system, his argument being that you get one thing at a time, which is most rewarding and fun. I'll need to make a decision here, but it's getting harder every goddamn day.

[Dioxine]

@Juku
Do not subvert what I said. It makes me think bad of you.

As a word of advice, better make your changes a separate mod. Else you'll get fucked as Solar updates his files (not to even mention your changes will quickly become useless to anyone but yourself). It's a higher energy & time investment upfront, but saves a ton of trouble later. I made the same mistake as you did when tweaking the 40k mod.

But, as Dioxine noted, making a mod to the base mod is largely an execise in futility since I have so many changes I'd have to essentially maintain a base and a diff file for each ruleset, publish only the latter and it'd be outdated the moment you publish a new version.

So I basically said you should make your mod to a mod, not the opposite, as you claim. Since it will keep working even after updates (although not 100%), also there is a chance Solar might look into it to pull some content; modyfying master file is idiocy since nobody sane will try going through your changes, nothing is worth such time and work investment. Unless Solar wants to relinquish the position of the main developer to you, but I don't think so.

[LuigiWhatif]

You must also be at Promotion II, or you won't get clearance for the Light Cannon.

Back on page 43 you told me I needed Heavy Cannon research to get full cannon access.  I still haven't found any by October 1999, though I've gotten a few Assault cannons.  Are you sure Heavy cannons are on the MiB equipment list?

[Solarius Scorch]

Back on page 43 you told me I needed Heavy Cannon research to get full cannon access.  I still haven't found any by October 1999, though I've gotten a few Assault cannons.  Are you sure Heavy cannons are on the MiB equipment list?

I checked and no, Heavy Cannons aren't currently used by anyone. Sorry, they were eaten by the Chaos Gods at some point.
I'll add them back soon, just doing some major overhaul of M.A.G.MA.-related items.

[Juku121]

@Juku
Do not subvert what I said. It makes me think bad of you.

So I basically said you should make your mod to a mod, not the opposite, as you claim. Since it will keep working even after updates (although not 100%), also there is a chance Solar might look into it to pull some content; modyfying master file is idiocy since nobody sane will try going through your changes, nothing is worth such time and work investment. Unless Solar wants to relinquish the position of the main developer to you, but I don't think so.

I did not mean to misrepresent you, and apologize If it came across that way.

That having been said, I still fail to understand how your quote actually supports the position of making a 'mod to a mod' being superior in case the 'submod' is large enough.

Any update by Solarius will have to be manually merged anyway, due to how different the balancing is by now. Updating, say, 0.4.2 into what's currently available in the 'Idea Proving Grounds', you'd get an unholy mess even if my changes came in a 'submod' format. It won't be 'not 100%', getting 75% would be an achievement. You of all people should understand this.

And maintaining only 'minimal change' rulesets makes MY life hell for modding purposes, while not making Solarius' life much easier, and is of no benefit to anyone else except some hypothetical replacement of his, who I have no desire to become.

I see no better option than what I've proposed and implemented right now: Solarius and other interested parties can ask for specific changes they like, and can identify what they like by either ruleset diving (bad idea in general, which has essentially been your whole point as far as I can tell, but feasible for small things and Solarius has done some of it), reading the Ufopedia and playing quick battles (easiest, but most shallow), and trying a quick run of my version (sabotages playtesting for XCF, but If people have already gone through it once and want a somewhat different experience, why not?). When asked, I can provide a 'current' and/or 'backported' implementation of the changes.

If you have an actual idea how to improve the above, by all means, please elaborate.

[LuigiWhatif]

Is there a point to going into caves or is that branch still undeveloped?  So far all I've encountered is a few spiders and far too many chupacabras.

[Solarius Scorch]

Is there a point to going into caves or is that branch still undeveloped?  So far all I've encountered is a few spiders and far too many chupacabras.

Not much else yet, no. It'll be quite relevant later.

[Dioxine]

If you have an actual idea how to improve the above, by all means, please elaborate.

The biggest advantage of keeping your changes in a separate mod format is that you can omit all the data that you keep unchanged. You know that, right? If you change eg. weapon power, you only need to provide that data, all other data you can omit, and the game will override old damage with your damage while keeping all else. That way, anyone doing ruleset diving will instantly see what is new/changed compared to Solar's version. I assumed you know this, if you do, kudos, if not, I can elaborate further on mod-to-sub-mod structure.

This format has never failed me so far, and like I previously said, trying to change 40k mod your way (as a replacement) only ended in tears for me. There has to be order, and the master file should be by the main developer, even if it's inconvenient to a person like you.

If Solar changed his mod into a 'master mod' format, it would help immensely, of course, but even if not, this holds true as long as your mod to his mod is lower on the mod list.

As for updates, I won't lie to you, it will be hard to keep up. However, it's better to put some extra work than to be useless, IMO. However, Solar keeps detailed changelogs, and you can always ask him for help, him, or anyone.

[Meridian]

If you could keep your mods (and least the ruleset) in git, the changelog (and finding bugs) would be much easier too

[Juku121]

I assumed you know this, if you do, kudos, if not, I can elaborate further on mod-to-sub-mod structure.

There has to be order, and the master file should be by the main developer, even if it's inconvenient to a person like you.

However, Solar keeps detailed changelogs, and you can always ask him for help, him, or anyone.

Sure, keeping only submod-specific changes sounds nice in theory. The issue is, what these changes are keeps constantly changing, a large chunk of which are automatically at odds with Solarius' (e.g. at least 75% of items.rul is now different from Solarius', so omitting the intersection is just an invitation to conflicts). And it's quite difficult to make large-scale changes when looking at a partial ruleset, hence my comment about having to maintain double rulesets.

Solarius does keep changelogs, but for my purposes, they're only useful as reminders. I doubt he's going to make changelogs a la 'gave Hybrid7, Hybrid11, Hybrid67,... Chempistols' or 'gave Sectopods, MiB Sectopods and both X-Com Sectopods thermal vision', and even if he did, it wouldn't help much more.

I guess the bottom line is, my changes are not an actual mod, and in all likelihood will not become one. You could view them as a playable 'modder's resource'.

Regarding Git, there are other issues that make using it non-attractive for me, but... how does it facilitate the generation of high-level, non-minutiae-filled changelogs? Or, for that matter, bug-finding (as opposed to bug-tracking)?

[Dioxine]

So you want to shut yourself in an ivory tower. Sure, it's your choice, to each their own