Author Topic: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin  (Read 1952076 times)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #525 on: October 27, 2016, 02:22:10 am »
Well then! I'll find it by playing!  >:(

Yeah, though not in 0.4 yet.

Edit because otherwise I'd be a spammer:

I wish more people thought like this...

Also, I'm curious how your experiments with dogs are going. Since I did a fair amount of work on them and I am curious about soldier types/soldier specific armor, I could look into it to make dogs a type of soldiers that can't pilot/get promoted and has 3 armors: Default, doggy bulletproof vest and doggy alloy vest.

Frankly, I haven't found the time for dogs yet. (I just lost a good hour debugging yet another stupid mission.) So if you want to try, you're welcome. :)

Here's what I do have:

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_DOGE
    costBuy: 10000
    costSalary: 800
    minStats:
      tu: 60
      stamina: 80
      health: 15
      bravery: 10
      reactions: 50
      firing: 0
      throwing: 0
      strength: 1
      psiStrength: 40
      psiSkill: 0
      melee: 70
    maxStats:
      tu: 70
      stamina: 90
      health: 20
      bravery: 20
      reactions: 60
      firing: 0
      throwing: 0
      strength: 1
      psiStrength: 40
      psiSkill: 0
      melee: 90
    statCaps:
      tu: 100
      stamina: 130
      health: 40
      bravery: 40
      reactions: 90
      firing: 10
      throwing: 10
      strength: 2
      psiStrength: 40
      psiSkill: 0
      melee: 140
    armor: STR_NONE_UC
#    armorForAvatar: STR_NONE_UC
#    avatarOffsetX: 68
#    avatarOffsetY: 48
    standHeight: 12
    kneelHeight: 12
    femaleFrequency: 50
    deathMale: 94
    deathFemale: 94

And finally: I made some "encounter of the 3rd/XXX kind" in December. I'm leaving a save here and I think the title says it all:

Well... Later game isn't really finished yet. :P

Offline Arthanor

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #526 on: October 27, 2016, 04:59:18 am »
Alright. I'll take a look at the dogs. Especially now that the aliens pretty much won by overpowered tech, as they should I guess.

Edit: Also, as can be seen in my previous save, if you have a XCom HQ in the base, somehow the radar circles are not drawn around bases on the geoscape.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 09:14:01 pm by Arthanor »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #527 on: October 28, 2016, 01:38:06 am »
Alright. I'll take a look at the dogs. Especially now that the aliens pretty much won by overpowered tech, as they should I guess.

Sorry to hear that. But is it so bad? Yes, I understand, Ethereals, but did anything really bad happen?

Edit: Also, as can be seen in my previous save, if you have a XCom HQ in the base, somehow the radar circles are not drawn around bases on the geoscape.

I'm moving to another town this week and therefore I didn't have the chance to look at it yet, but I'll try to investigate.

EDIT: Here's the Werecat-nya. :)


Offline Arthanor

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #528 on: October 28, 2016, 06:42:44 am »
Sorry to hear that. But is it so bad? Yes, I understand, Ethereals, but did anything really bad happen?
Well.. I don't think I can tackle Ethereals with normal weapons, armored vests and no psi screening. Especially since giving them psi-vision has made them able to psi-shenanigans you from T1 without needing to spot you so there's much less hiding from LOS to avoid getting it. There's always exploiting psi-rods I guess, although it's not easy given I have no access to psi-stat.

Could it be done? Yes, I actually managed to clear the UFO on my 2nd try with only one casualty (the guy who threw the heavy explosive in the UFO at the end of T2) but the first try was absolute mind blowing self-inflicted devastation. And I don't know if I want to go through that again given that it's not really what's supposed to happen.

I like to try and comment on various mods, but I'm not really keen on playing through bugs or game eras that aren't really implemented. I gave up on Piratez once I reached the endgame for that reason too. Dioxine said the endgame wasn't really implemented. And it was honestly boring. All I needed to do was farm the last armor materials in great enough quantity and it wasn't interesting to do. However, since yours is the only other TC that's still going, I'm thinking I'll just restart (after having a look at the mission stuff :P)

Quote
I'm moving to another town this week and therefore I didn't have the chance to look at it yet, but I'll try to investigate.
No worries. Actually I looked and I'm not sure why but XCom HQs have a super bad, super long range radar. So it's not that the game doesn't draw the circles, but it wants to draw the larger range available to a given base (the HQ) and that is probably enough to give you global coverage so nothing gets drawn. I'm not sure if a 2% detection rate is worth the inconvenience of not being able to see your actual radar range. But I guess I can also destroy the HQs now that I have labs...

Quote
EDIT: Here's the Werecat-nya. :)
Cool stuff! :D

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #529 on: October 28, 2016, 01:49:03 pm »
Well.. I don't think I can tackle Ethereals with normal weapons, armored vests and no psi screening. Especially since giving them psi-vision has made them able to psi-shenanigans you from T1 without needing to spot you so there's much less hiding from LOS to avoid getting it. There's always exploiting psi-rods I guess, although it's not easy given I have no access to psi-stat.

Could it be done? Yes, I actually managed to clear the UFO on my 2nd try with only one casualty (the guy who threw the heavy explosive in the UFO at the end of T2) but the first try was absolute mind blowing self-inflicted devastation. And I don't know if I want to go through that again given that it's not really what's supposed to happen.

I like to try and comment on various mods, but I'm not really keen on playing through bugs or game eras that aren't really implemented. I gave up on Piratez once I reached the endgame for that reason too. Dioxine said the endgame wasn't really implemented. And it was honestly boring. All I needed to do was farm the last armor materials in great enough quantity and it wasn't interesting to do. However, since yours is the only other TC that's still going, I'm thinking I'll just restart (after having a look at the mission stuff :P)

All right, that's understandable. I can move Ethereals somewhat further down the line of time, but it probably requires more effort than just this.
Perhaps I'll be able to focus on this after the release.

Thanks for the report! It's probably the first time anyone's gone that far with the mod.

No worries. Actually I looked and I'm not sure why but XCom HQs have a super bad, super long range radar. So it's not that the game doesn't draw the circles, but it wants to draw the larger range available to a given base (the HQ) and that is probably enough to give you global coverage so nothing gets drawn. I'm not sure if a 2% detection rate is worth the inconvenience of not being able to see your actual radar range. But I guess I can also destroy the HQs now that I have labs...

Yes, indeed the HQ's "radar" is indeed global, and its circle shouldn't be shown. But I never noticed it doesn't display other radars either. I guess it could be considered a bug...

Offline Juku121

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #530 on: October 28, 2016, 03:44:32 pm »
@Arthanor:

However, since yours is the only other TC that's still going, I'm thinking I'll just restart (after having a look at the mission stuff :P)

If you're going to restart, might I interest you in trying out my altered version of X-Com Files? The primary reason for this would be to identify which of my changes have a broad enough appeal that I can lobby Solarius to add them individually, instead of just dumping all the raw changes at him. The latter did not work, and I'm not blaming him for it either.

If you're game, give me a day or two after Solarius releases 0.4 to merge in the new stuff. If not, well, I'm happy enough with it myself, but I really think at least some of my work is clearly an improvement and it'd be a waste to just let it fade away on page  17 (double the page count, already?  :o)


More utility for alien corpses, a la NuXCOM. You could, say, get some kind of alien blood serum with regenerative properties from Reptoids/Snakemen, combat implants from Gazers, psychoactive brain tissue from Sectoids/Cerebreals, repairable armor from Ethereals. These are just random examples, I'm sure Solarius can think (or ask for!) more and better ideas.
I've always wanted this, but it's hard to think of reasonable products from alien soldiers. We already have grav units and synthmuscles... Perhaps alien cybernetics?

Well, I implemented something along my original ideas. Most corpses give something (Alien electronics, Alien Alloys, Synthmuscles and Grav Modules are largely unchanged) and the primary new resources are:

  • Alien brain tissue (Sectoids, Cerebrals, Ethereals), which is required to build advanced psi-amps, psi-weapons and Psiclones. Basically a way of turning corpses into (more) money via Psiclones and a speedbump for building psi-amps. Finally, this could also be turned into 'ammo' for psi-amps etc, but I don't personally like that idea. And dead Ethereals are still a resource for building Psi-Suits.
  • Alien blood serum (mostly reptile Aliens: Snakemen, Tasoths, Reptoids, but also Chryssalids), which is used to build advanced medikits and perishable combat drugs, which are basically 'stims on steroids'. :) That is, they are one-use items that regenerate a lot of energy, remove stun and provide some TU, but are consumed after use and the resources to build them are comparably as limited as Elerium is for general use.
  • Alien acids from Celatids, Spitters and their ilk, used by bioweapons like Toxiguns, Dart weapons; Acid grenades, rockets and other munitions. It is possible to synthesize these after extensive research (basically, research all Aliens, their autopsies and bioweapons), but in early and mid-game you have to scavenge.



Thanks for the report! It's probably the first time anyone's gone that far with the mod.


Well, I got as far as late fall of 1999, but restarted due to extensive changes (merging in Commendations mid-game being the primary culprit) and a desire to rebalance the early game. I'm now (back) up to May 1998. I'm no good for bug reports, though, since I'm liable to fix them myself.  ;D

As an aside, Commendation triggers seem to be quite buggy. Off the top of my head, people get IED medals for no reason (smoke grenades?), I-stunned-all-Aliens-myself medal is given out left and right, the kill-by-ranks medal is also too frequent.

Offline Arthanor

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #531 on: October 28, 2016, 05:08:17 pm »
All right, that's understandable. I can move Ethereals somewhat further down the line of time, but it probably requires more effort than just this.
Perhaps I'll be able to focus on this after the release.

I thought the idea was to keep the timeine similar to the FMP for January 1999 onward? The Kiryu-Kai research states that the invasion starts on the same date as vanilla and discovering that ethereals, no less, are running missions in December 1998 was just shocking for me. But maybe that's me misunderstanding the intent for the later game.

I very much liked the idea of XComFiles covering the pre-invasion part and thought that your success in the two early years could explain why the aliens decide to come to Earth themselves and terrorize it: you foiled their more insidious appempt with cults to deliver them the world peacefully. But if the cult activity is just masking the invasion which proceeds any ways from the start and it's just that I can't tell since I have no radar it's a bit less empowering.

To me, getting ready to welcome the aliens on January was a great driver for trying to develop and build as much infrastructure as possible. Usually I take the game as it comes and progress along at a pace I find reasonable without trying to exploit the game, but in this mod I had a drive to push my development as far as possible. To discover that aliens are already running about and I was a clueless chimp is a bit disheartening. A few sectoids doing stuff for crop circles missions is cool and ties in the age old ufo reports. Ethereals, which I take to mean every other race since they are the last to show up usually, already being about makes all this talk about a start date much less relevant. It's already started.

All that to say: I'm very curious to know what you intended for January 1999 to represent because it seems like I misunderstood ;P and I know expectations are the worst so I'd rather set them properly.

Quote
Thanks for the report! It's probably the first time anyone's gone that far with the mod.

You're welcome! It was a very entertaining experience. Well done on designing the first two years. In fact, if you implement more early arcs, I'd almost suggest making it 3 years before the invasion so we have time to delve into the arcs properly instead of having too much unfinished business when the aliens show up.

Quote
Yes, indeed the HQ's "radar" is indeed global, and its circle shouldn't be shown. But I never noticed it doesn't display other radars either. I guess it could be considered a bug...

I think that the intent was to only draw the longest range but in this case I agree that excluding global coverage would be good.

@Juku: I'd be curious to see it. Don't worry about time. I'll work a bit on dogs, maybe more on my AP ammo idea and I'll be busy with other stuff for a bit any ways, so there's no rush.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #532 on: October 28, 2016, 09:57:01 pm »
If you're going to restart, might I interest you in trying out my altered version of X-Com Files? The primary reason for this would be to identify which of my changes have a broad enough appeal that I can lobby Solarius to add them individually, instead of just dumping all the raw changes at him. The latter did not work, and I'm not blaming him for it either.

If you're game, give me a day or two after Solarius releases 0.4 to merge in the new stuff. If not, well, I'm happy enough with it myself, but I really think at least some of my work is clearly an improvement and it'd be a waste to just let it fade away on page  17 (double the page count, already?  :o)

I certainly don't mind, if there is interest. But I think our differences are mostly around basic gaming concepts, like "should armour have weight", in the large picture there shouldn't be much differences. But it also depends how you'll approach 0.4, which is pretty much done.

BTW: It's your call Juku, but like before, I really recommend writing a separate mod to XCF rather than changing the master mod, since the thing is a nightmare to work with. ;)

Well, I implemented something along my original ideas. Most corpses give something (Alien electronics, Alien Alloys, Synthmuscles and Grav Modules are largely unchanged) and the primary new resources are:

  • Alien brain tissue (Sectoids, Cerebrals, Ethereals), which is required to build advanced psi-amps, psi-weapons and Psiclones. Basically a way of turning corpses into (more) money via Psiclones and a speedbump for building psi-amps. Finally, this could also be turned into 'ammo' for psi-amps etc, but I don't personally like that idea. And dead Ethereals are still a resource for building Psi-Suits.
  • Alien blood serum (mostly reptile Aliens: Snakemen, Tasoths, Reptoids, but also Chryssalids), which is used to build advanced medikits and perishable combat drugs, which are basically 'stims on steroids'. :) That is, they are one-use items that regenerate a lot of energy, remove stun and provide some TU, but are consumed after use and the resources to build them are comparably as limited as Elerium is for general use.
  • Alien acids from Celatids, Spitters and their ilk, used by bioweapons like Toxiguns, Dart weapons; Acid grenades, rockets and other munitions. It is possible to synthesize these after extensive research (basically, research all Aliens, their autopsies and bioweapons), but in early and mid-game you have to scavenge.

I agree with the principle. Not really convinced by alien brain juice useful for psionics, since it has to do with complex information patterns, and that's highly unlikely with chemical molecules - otherwise we'd have moldy food leftovers go sentient. :) And other such components are often easily enough synthesised on Earth. But I'm all for the general idea.

As an aside, Commendation triggers seem to be quite buggy. Off the top of my head, people get IED medals for no reason (smoke grenades?), I-stunned-all-Aliens-myself medal is given out left and right, the kill-by-ranks medal is also too frequent.

This is a general issue; when Yankes merges current nightly, hopefully it'll be fixed.

I thought the idea was to keep the timeine similar to the FMP for January 1999 onward? The Kiryu-Kai research states that the invasion starts on the same date as vanilla and discovering that ethereals, no less, are running missions in December 1998 was just shocking for me. But maybe that's me misunderstanding the intent for the later game.

Yes, you are correct: the aliens start the invasion at that date.

I very much liked the idea of XComFiles covering the pre-invasion part and thought that your success in the two early years could explain why the aliens decide to come to Earth themselves and terrorize it: you foiled their more insidious appempt with cults to deliver them the world peacefully. But if the cult activity is just masking the invasion which proceeds any ways from the start and it's just that I can't tell since I have no radar it's a bit less empowering.

It's not exactly that the aliens suddenly changed their plans because of X-Com, the invasion would happen anyway. The cults etc. are only a part of it, but in fact they constitute a majority of invasion forces.

I kinda like the idea that doing well with the cults would push the alien invasion further; it's a cool mechanic, if done right. But I don't know if I can do something like that with what we have. I could make some research prerequisite to alien missions, but it would destroy the feeling of inevitability of the invasion.

Nevertheless, cults, hybrids etc. make so much ruckus that without your effort, the Earth would be much more weakened.

To me, getting ready to welcome the aliens on January was a great driver for trying to develop and build as much infrastructure as possible. Usually I take the game as it comes and progress along at a pace I find reasonable without trying to exploit the game, but in this mod I had a drive to push my development as far as possible. To discover that aliens are already running about and I was a clueless chimp is a bit disheartening. A few sectoids doing stuff for crop circles missions is cool and ties in the age old ufo reports. Ethereals, which I take to mean every other race since they are the last to show up usually, already being about makes all this talk about a start date much less relevant. It's already started.

No, that's not true: the aliens really start their shit in January 1999. There are some alien vessels before, basically research, but they are only occasional at best. To get such a ship, much less an Ethereal one, before 01.1999, requires much luck (lol).
Anyway, today I rebuilt the missions to make sure that Ethereals appear much later... At least on normal missions.

Actually, the alien invasion will probably be less intense than in vanilla, since you have so much to do on the other fronts. For example, only 20% chance for an Alien Terror each month - but you also have other difficult missions. Thisgs will be balanced further if necessary.

You're welcome! It was a very entertaining experience. Well done on designing the first two years. In fact, if you implement more early arcs, I'd almost suggest making it 3 years before the invasion so we have time to delve into the arcs properly instead of having too much unfinished business when the aliens show up.

I'm considering it. There is much more early content in 0.4, and also even more content once you discover the Hybrids. For now, we stay like we were, but with softer invasion.

I think that the intent was to only draw the longest range but in this case I agree that excluding global coverage would be good.

I don't want to abandon my HQ "radar" idea (which is really just some people waiting at their phone lines), so I guess we'll have to live with it for now. I'll ask Meridian later if we can have all the circles displayed. Frankly, this is something I already wanted before, X-Com HQ aside.

Offline Nord

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #533 on: October 28, 2016, 11:03:58 pm »
I agree with the principle. Not really convinced by alien brain juice useful for psionics, since it has to do with complex information patterns, and that's highly unlikely with chemical molecules - otherwise we'd have moldy food leftovers go sentient. :) And other such components are often easily enough synthesised on Earth. But I'm all for the general idea.
I always liked this principe. Like in the PirateZ, when you need each artifact for some future purpose. So you must cut implants from alen bodyes, disassemble cyberdiscs for advanced circuits, dismantle alien food for reagents and so on. And after that combine it all in one useful item.  :P
 By the way, can you add in next patch bioextraction of alive floaters and zombies. I think it is bug not to use them.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #534 on: October 28, 2016, 11:07:32 pm »
I always liked this principe. Like in the PirateZ, when you need each artifact for some future purpose. So you must cut implants from alen bodyes, disassemble cyberdiscs for advanced circuits, dismantle alien food for reagents and so on. And after that combine it all in one useful item.  :P

Yes, but it's harder to fit it into X-Com Files. :P

By the way, can you add in next patch bioextraction of alive floaters and zombies. I think it is bug not to use them.

Zombies yes, that's already done. Floaters no, because they don't have this Elerium-based metabolism - they are just cyborgs. (We should be able to extract some cybernetics from them, like from Mutons... But I'm not sure what for, yet.)

Offline Drasnighta

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #535 on: October 28, 2016, 11:35:31 pm »
(We should be able to extract some cybernetics from them, like from Mutons... But I'm not sure what for, yet.)

Please... 

We're Humans...

We're best known for randomly inserting metal into parts of our bodies purely for decoration

Offline Juku121

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #536 on: October 29, 2016, 12:32:49 am »
I certainly don't mind, if there is interest. But I think our differences are mostly around basic gaming concepts, like "should armour have weight", in the large picture there shouldn't be much differences. But it also depends how you'll approach 0.4, which is pretty much done.


Oh, there are definitely some changes that either clash with your vision or are just plain unintuitive. But I don’t think armor weight is one of those. Full-body armor definitely weighs more than a business suit. I guess the real issue is that my armors have negative weight.

And I don’t have anything you might call an 'approach’. I just scavenge and develop random gameplay ideas that I either read about or that come to me while playing. You’re the guy with lots of new ideas and a vision.

BTW: It's your call Juku, but like before, I really recommend writing a separate mod to XCF rather than changing the master mod, since the thing is a nightmare to work with. ;)

The trouble with doing that is it’s pretty much ongoing work that both changes and adds to the original mod. It would be a major pain to try to maintain minimally changed rulesets. Plus, I don’t think it’s possible to make an extensive submod for anything but a fixed version of the base mod, and right now there is a single constantly changing version.

Maybe all this would be feasible for an eventual 1.0, but that’s a long way off yet and I’ll probably burn out on X-Com sometime during the next six months or so and then disappear until 2019.;D

What I can offer is that if (when?:D) you identify a list of changes you like, I can provide the minimal changes needed to implement those and you can just paste them in.

I agree with the principle. Not really convinced by alien brain juice useful for psionics, since it has to do with complex information patterns, and that's highly unlikely with chemical molecules - otherwise we'd have moldy food leftovers go sentient. :) And other such components are often easily enough synthesised on Earth. But I'm all for the general idea.

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of a lobotomized piece of alien brain in a small life support unit ('brain in a jar’, heh). Kinda like the semi-dead Tasoths, biodrones and Great Sleeper lore of TFTD. ‘Big-brained’ aliens can be cut into smaller pieces and still function as a psionic medium.

But yeah, it’s mostly window dressing for a desirable gameplay effect rather than a well thought-out idea.

No, that's not true: the aliens really start their shit in January 1999. There are some alien vessels before, basically research, but they are only occasional at best. To get such a ship, much less an Ethereal one, before 01.1999, requires much luck (lol).

Shameless plug: my version gets to Ethereals only in 2002, but they’re really scary now. As in, can see you through walls, have psi-stats far beyond human (so virtually immune to your psi), able to stun you instead of mind control, which is arguably worse than MC. Nuking them with Blaster Bombs might be a legitimate tactic now. But you MUST capture an Ethereal Commander to find out about Cydonia.

Edit: this talk about Alien food reminds me of another change: advanced buildings require Alien components now: surgeries for the Sick Bay, food for containment (you can hold a single alien in a prototype facility that can be built without Alien Food), Elerium power sources for plasma defences etc.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 01:03:46 am by Juku121 »

Offline Nord

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #537 on: October 29, 2016, 09:47:57 am »
Floaters no, because they don't have this Elerium-based metabolism - they are just cyborgs. (We should be able to extract some cybernetics from them, like from Mutons... But I'm not sure what for, yet.)
I mean gravisystem, as we can extract from dead floaters. Or make possibility to kill captured aliens.

About brain samples - Lore friendly thing: reading ufopedia we see that all of alien species infused with many cybernetic implants. And humans can not produce nothing like it. But maybe can adapt some for self?

As always, sorry for bad grammatic.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #538 on: October 29, 2016, 12:40:00 pm »
I mean gravisystem, as we can extract from dead floaters. Or make possibility to kill captured aliens.

No idea how to go about this right now, but yes, it's logical.

About brain samples - Lore friendly thing: reading ufopedia we see that all of alien species infused with many cybernetic implants. And humans can not produce nothing like it. But maybe can adapt some for self?

There are limitations as to what I can do, but I feel the same.

Offline Nord

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #539 on: October 29, 2016, 01:25:45 pm »
No idea how to go about this right now, but yes, it's logical.
Simple. Manufacturing option, one live unit needed, one dead produced.