Re: The X-Com Files - 3.5: Whispers In The Dark

[Solarius Scorch]

Awesome, I'll certainly try to use them.

By the way, a quick fix attached. Jumpsuits are bugged...

[Nord]

So if a normal vision range is 40, then someone with Camo 10 is visible from range 30 or less.

Thanks. And with "no-more-glowing-xcom-soldiers", are enemies see in dark? Or they just like player units?

[Solarius Scorch]

Thanks. And with "no-more-glowing-xcom-soldiers", are enemies see in dark? Or they just like player units?

Which enemies? Aliens still have their NV 20 (mostly), unaided humans have 9.

[Arthanor]

Just got the latest mod and the jumpsuit fix. That green jumpsuit sure is green.. I don't know if it would be possible to integrate them, but there's some awesome armor colors in this mod that could be used for the recolors as they have impressive camo patterns.

[Solarius Scorch]

Just got the latest mod and the jumpsuit fix. That green jumpsuit sure is green.. I don't know if it would be possible to integrate them, but there's some awesome armor colors in this mod that could be used for the recolors as they have impressive camo patterns.

Yeah, they are impressive... I'll see what can be done.

By the way Arthanor, how's your experiments with damageAlter? Any progress?

[Arthanor]

I got too far into it ;P

Armor piercing, stun damage and ~12hrs working in front of a computer or commuting and staring at my phone per day did me in. I'll get back to it next week.

Also played too much ;P but now that I have an exalt HQ staring at me that I don't know how to approach, I might spend a bit more time modding.

PS. You need to update the title. It still says 3.4!

[Solarius Scorch]

OK, that's fine with me
(And I always miss at least one place when it comes to version number.)

I redid the green armours, now they're properly camo-ed. The desert ones are still as they were though, since the other version is kinda broken (and there are no boobs visible ).


EDIT:

I have decided to share some views on the future of this mod. And maybe hear your thoughts?

My next stage will be the Syndicate. Sort of MiB-lite, they are the evil megacorporation of this setting. Equipped with BlackOps products, they are not overly dangerous, but most/all missions against them will be undercover (which means: no armour, pistols only). It will take time, because I need to make all their terrain, though maybe I'll start with something smaller - like smaller branches that spawn in cities. (It would look more natural if we could turn off their hostility towards civilians, wink wink.)

Then I plan to make something like Red Dawn 2.0. I feel that Red Dawn as a concept has more potential than just being one of the initial four, so I'd like to make a stronger faction that appears later, as the Man Behind The Man. I don't really have many ideas how it should look yet, but this decision is tied to another one: I don't like the monopoly of BlackOps Industries on the arms market, so I want to give them competition, more Russian/Chinese-themed. This new manufacturer, named M.A.G.M.A. (a shout out to Alien Shooter 2), will produce weapons like Light Cannon, Heavy Cannon and Auto-Cannon (which currently are made by X-Com), a heavy shotgun, maybe something more. I'll probably start with M.A.G.M.A. and think of the organization later, but ideas are welcome.

Another branch is the "Underdark", which is already sort of started with the cave lairs. The next step will be increasing the range of creatures (I plan to add Robin's Multiworm at the very least) and maybe fleshing it out a bit, but the most important thing will come later, when I start adding underworld civilizations. This will be the third source of trouble, after the outer space and the sea, and I'm very excited about it, but it'll take time. (Also, that's where Gauss weapons will come from.)

Then there's the Cyberweb, which I need to tie up at some point. Then I want to use more of Robin's stuff and do something like Half-Life, with Apocalypse aliens pouring out from portals. This will be directly connected to the Cyberweb, who are basically responsible for the entire affair. I don't know how far I'll get, but I would like missions in the alien dimension, ideally culminating with blowing up a Cyberweb battleship (the one from Piratez).

Then there are the Doom sprites, which should make an appearance, no? So, some sort of Cult of Apocalypse will make an appearance. Hard to say more at this point, but expect red robes and two-level missions (secure the cult base, then get to the dungeon to close the portal). Maybe a two-way trip to hell if someone makes the terrain.

Then there are also minor missions, like a village infested with Chryssalids, a mine infested with Cybermites, the (now abandoned) Red Dawn base infested with giant spiders, and so on.

[yrizoud]

As much as I love Doom, I have to say the ripped sprites in OpenXcom engine look awful.

You may want to avoid the name Underdark, because of very specific AD&D meaning.  What about hollow earth ? Even just this Wikipedia articles gives a lot of material.

In general, I'm not sure how you will handle the "rythm" of the game as you add more things. I mean, UFO goes from first downed UFO to final retaliation, in straight line. In XCOMFiles you have a lovecraftian cult trying to bring back an elder god, and in parallel you have giant arthropods appearing, and in parallel you have zombie outbreak. When the first alien will appear, the player will want to tell him "OK sorry but we are a bit busy at the moment, can you come back and invade us later?"

[Arthanor]

Sort of ninja'd but going in the same direction:

First order comment: when do aliens show up?

In my game (which hasn't progressed at all this weekend) I assumed I had to deal with the cults before January 1999 as the aliens would show up then to follow the established time-line. If you put more human and monstrous factions, do you push back the start of the game to earlier? Or have the aliens wait until later?

I feel like once the "real" aliens (section, floater) start to show up, they would totally steal the thunder of other things (who cares about cults when the real deal is flying around?).

Or maybe have the new factions you describe as late 1998/early 1999 main enemies with a few occasional scout ufos? That would make a smooth transition from cults to aliens and have aliens be real highlights (if you can somehow down an ufo or catch a landed one).

I also think having "post-landing site" would be a great companion to the first ufo encounters. Something where you have to deal with weird viruses (or virus infected animals/people), crazy militias that showed up or just panicked citizens (have to stun the all?) to really play up the "aliens are messing up everything" effect.

Factions:
Syndicate: sounds interesting but also potentially frustrating. Armored enemies when you have low power weapons means you're more likely to get streaks of no damage which are really frustrating. If you're taking on enemies who have automatic weapons, why would you go in unarmored and barely armed? Especially since after the first enemy, you'd be silly not to grab their gun and use an automatic weapon any ways.

Also, blackops not dangerous when you don't have armor? A wound is a setback and a casualty is significant, especially on teams of ~8.

Red Dawn/Magma:
Having them as the muscle of some other organization which is intent on using alien tech to create their own state, and also push towards hi-tech, hi-power and heavy weapons (their grunts are strong, so heavy is no issue. Kind of like the gals in Piratez) would work for suppliers of cannons. Maybe the aim is to establish just good enough relationship with them that they sell weapons and interfere with the aliens/other cults instead of stirring up more problems.

Underdark:
Sounds interesting but TftD already has primordial terran lifeforms doesn't it? Maybe the tftd ones were enslaved whereas the underground ones are still free?

Also I'm a stickler for the original vanilla and gauss and sonic being innovations tied to the sea arc, maybe with the twist that the gauss weapons shoot darts so that it makes more sense as an underwater weapon.

Maybe the underground faction could be heat resistant and use heat weapons (specially designed to kill heat sensitive surface and sea creatures, especially sea creatures are generally not used to temperature variations). And to keep with the two tiers per environment, explosives would make sense for a civilization that would be based on digging.

Doom, half-life and Apocalypse sound like something that could be connected. They're all about other dimensions on a way. Maybe a play on the Devils and Demons division? Two different ways to unlock travel to other dimensions and maybe even a side "accident" effect that open up attacks from the other dimension after you experiment on the first.

[Meridian]

Divide and Conquer.

Don't put everything into one giant mod...

[yrizoud]

I feel like once the "real" aliens (section, floater) start to show up, they would totally steal the thunder of other things

Actually these early threats can be the means by which XCOM earns the technology which lets them defend against the alien. If you complete the nazi moon base arc you end up with hydra lasers and early spaceships, if you defeat the corporation which created zombies you get high-tech poison weapons, etc.
These would be alternative paths which you try to advance, at least one is required, and hopefully they give balanced rewards so any one is sufficient, though several give a more well-rounded technology.

[Arthanor]

It's possible to integrate everything, or to have multiple mods which each have an arc, as Meridian was suggesting. And indeed, allowing XCom to build up their capabilities by investigating and seizing hardware from "human collaborators" would be pretty cool. Something to create "super-soldiers" from the zombie virus (Resident Evil like), advanced weapons from the space nazis, basic psychic powers (mind probe? Something that allows limited vision through walls?) from some other factions, etc.

I thought this was pretty much the point of the various cults already I haven't gone through any of the arcs yet, but it looks like each specialize in something or other in such a way that giving different, each equally valuable, goodies would make sense. So far EXALT and the Black Lotus both gave me something "alien" that look interesting.

[Solarius Scorch]

As much as I love Doom, I have to say the ripped sprites in OpenXcom engine look awful.

Sort of, yeah.

You may want to avoid the name Underdark, because of very specific AD&D meaning.  What about hollow earth ? Even just this Wikipedia articles gives a lot of material.

Yeah, I didn't seriously mean Underdark, it was just an example.

In general, I'm not sure how you will handle the "rythm" of the game as you add more things. I mean, UFO goes from first downed UFO to final retaliation, in straight line. In XCOMFiles you have a lovecraftian cult trying to bring back an elder god, and in parallel you have giant arthropods appearing, and in parallel you have zombie outbreak. When the first alien will appear, the player will want to tell him "OK sorry but we are a bit busy at the moment, can you come back and invade us later?"

Sort of ninja'd but going in the same direction:

First order comment: when do aliens show up?

In my game (which hasn't progressed at all this weekend) I assumed I had to deal with the cults before January 1999 as the aliens would show up then to follow the established time-line. If you put more human and monstrous factions, do you push back the start of the game to earlier? Or have the aliens wait until later?

I feel like once the "real" aliens (section, floater) start to show up, they would totally steal the thunder of other things (who cares about cults when the real deal is flying around?).

Or maybe have the new factions you describe as late 1998/early 1999 main enemies with a few occasional scout ufos? That would make a smooth transition from cults to aliens and have aliens be real highlights (if you can somehow down an ufo or catch a landed one).

I'd say I see my mod like a TV series from the 90's (doh) - while the most important enemy are, say, Goa'uld, most episodes are actually about other stuff. The aliens from Mars are supposedly the most important, but there are also other villains to fight. So sometimes it's Klingons, sometimes Romulans, sometimes it's Ferengi, or sometimes it's just a weird space monster. That's what I'm going at.
Does it mean there'll be less UFOs? Yes, probably. But it's too untested to be sure yet.

I also think having "post-landing site" would be a great companion to the first ufo encounters. Something where you have to deal with weird viruses (or virus infected animals/people), crazy militias that showed up or just panicked citizens (have to stun the all?) to really play up the "aliens are messing up everything" effect.

Yes, good idea, but your rewards should be very limited. Would you have any suggestions on how to do it without an actual UFO wreck? (Because Alien Alloys should be hard to get.)

Factions:
Syndicate: sounds interesting but also potentially frustrating. Armored enemies when you have low power weapons means you're more likely to get streaks of no damage which are really frustrating. If you're taking on enemies who have automatic weapons, why would you go in unarmored and barely armed? Especially since after the first enemy, you'd be silly not to grab their gun and use an automatic weapon any ways.

That's the plan.

Also, blackops not dangerous when you don't have armor? A wound is a setback and a casualty is significant, especially on teams of ~8.

I meant they're relatively non-dangerous, when compared to other mid-tier enemies like Cyberweb Nomads. Not easy!

Red Dawn/Magma:
Having them as the muscle of some other organization which is intent on using alien tech to create their own state, and also push towards hi-tech, hi-power and heavy weapons (their grunts are strong, so heavy is no issue. Kind of like the gals in Piratez) would work for suppliers of cannons. Maybe the aim is to establish just good enough relationship with them that they sell weapons and interfere with the aliens/other cults instead of stirring up more problems.

Yes, there's a plan to make them "quest givers", where you do stuff for them in exchange for new products. And there's a corporate war going on...

Underdark:
Sounds interesting but TftD already has primordial terran lifeforms doesn't it? Maybe the tftd ones were enslaved whereas the underground ones are still free?

Sort of, yes. It's rather unclear though, it's been 65 million years.

Also I'm a stickler for the original vanilla and gauss and sonic being innovations tied to the sea arc, maybe with the twist that the gauss weapons shoot darts so that it makes more sense as an underwater weapon.

Making Gauss an underwater weapon was so unimaginably stupid that I'm not even going to try, sorry. I normally would, since I appreciate canonicity, but not here...

Maybe the underground faction could be heat resistant and use heat weapons (specially designed to kill heat sensitive surface and sea creatures, especially sea creatures are generally not used to temperature variations). And to keep with the two tiers per environment, explosives would make sense for a civilization that would be based on digging.

Spot on! You get XP

Doom, half-life and Apocalypse sound like something that could be connected. They're all about other dimensions on a way. Maybe a play on the Devils and Demons division? Two different ways to unlock travel to other dimensions and maybe even a side "accident" effect that open up attacks from the other dimension after you experiment on the first.

[/quote]

Can you please elaborate? Like, the X-Com Apocalypse Aliens are devils, and the Doom demons are demons?

Divide and Conquer.

Don't put everything into one giant mod...

Meh.

...but as a serious response, this wouldn't make sense, because the entire point of this mod is to be all that. I wouldn't be interested in these as separate mods, because they would be all too shallow and monotonous. The X-Com Files mod has been conceived and planned for exactly this kind of narration, it's not an accidental result. So I know perfectly well what I'm trying to achieve in general and I believe it'll work.

Actually these early threats can be the means by which XCOM earns the technology which lets them defend against the alien. If you complete the nazi moon base arc you end up with hydra lasers and early spaceships, if you defeat the corporation which created zombies you get high-tech poison weapons, etc.
These would be alternative paths which you try to advance, at least one is required, and hopefully they give balanced rewards so any one is sufficient, though several give a more well-rounded technology.

I'm not sure how deep it will go, but yes, this is more or less how I see it. It also depends on RNG, because different factions will show up.

P.S. The first original M.A.G.M.A. weapon - Thresher Heavy Shotgun, or Double-Barrelled on Steroids:

[Arthanor]

I'd say I see my mod like a TV series from the 90's (doh) - while the most important enemy are, say, Goa'uld, most episodes are actually about other stuff. The aliens from Mars are supposedly the most important, but there are also other villains to fight. So sometimes it's Klingons, sometimes Romulans, sometimes it's Ferengi, or sometimes it's just a weird space monster. That's what I'm going at.
Does it mean there'll be less UFOs? Yes, probably. But it's too untested to be sure yet.

That's fine by me. I very much like the idea of investigating all kind of crazy stuff at once. I also don't find single topic straight-line games as interesting, which is why I really like race/alternate weapons mods and megamods. I was worried that you'd have players fight off the cults and XYZ other factions while also defeating a full blown alien invasion. It's one thing that I think is really hard to get right when building megamods: pacing. You want the variety, but you also want enough time in between fights (or short enough projects) that research progresses between fights so that the player has a sense of progression instead of getting a feeling of being "stalled".

Yes, good idea, but your rewards should be very limited. Would you have any suggestions on how to do it without an actual UFO wreck? (Because Alien Alloys should be hard to get.)

Traces of Elerium from crop circles? (investigate 1, research Elerium trace, unlock "Elerium combination" that yields 1 Elerium from 5-10 traces. As an alternate way to start Elerium research. Maybe use the random containers so that once in a while the aliens forget a piece of equipment behind or something. Or you find an abduction victim and remove their implant so you can research it. Maybe 1 alien alloy from a UFO smashing into something? Instead of a UFO, put a mapblock with a crop circle (elerium trace), a parked car or house for the alien abduction, or a smashed up building/tree for the alien alloy.

That's the plan.

Alright I hope you get it right because it sounds... tricky. A game should be fun. XCom managed the hardcore enemies by making them manageable to kill even if they killed your guys, with the exception, maybe, of lobstermen although they weren't that bad. Similar with the original Piratez personal armored enemies, which were also manageable with bombs. Unarmored and with pistols against armored and armed enemies is the wrong kind of scary for a game. The right kind for a movie (since plot armor will make it happen).

I meant they're relatively non-dangerous, when compared to other mid-tier enemies like Cyberweb Nomads. Not easy!

Alright!

Yes, there's a plan to make them "quest givers", where you do stuff for them in exchange for new products. And there's a corporate war going on...

Interesting!

Sort of, yes. It's rather unclear though, it's been 65 million years.

Looking forward to researching it

Making Gauss an underwater weapon was so unimaginably stupid that I'm not even going to try, sorry. I normally would, since I appreciate canonicity, but not here...

Well, fair enough. I was going to say "maybe keep the sprites?" but that'd probably be confusing.

Spot on! You get XP

Woot!

Can you please elaborate? Like, the X-Com Apocalypse Aliens are devils, and the Doom demons are demons?

Yes, I'm not sure which would be which, since the Apocalypse ones seem more organic and less organized, whereas in Doom I think the forces of Hell are somewhat organized, so it might be that Apocalypse ones are the "chaotic evil" demons and the Doom ones would be devils? Lining up the names is not necessary though, Doom and Apocalypse are both great names too for other dimensions: The Kingdom of Doom and the Realm of the Apocalypse? And the main ideas are to play them off each other to emphasize how different these takes on "other dimension" are and to have the two arcs cross since they are both are about extra-dimensional beings: you could have XCom investigate the satanic cults, find a way to access the Hell dimension, but dial the wrong number and go into the Apocalypse one instead, then they get interested and start coming (could also explain the break in continuity: instead of coming whenever they do in Apocalypse). Or vice versa: Study alien portals, open your own, step in and end up in Doom Hell instead of Apocalypse other dimension. Then so far nonthreatening demon/witch cults benefit from the "break in the wall between dimensions" and actually manage to summon stuff and become a real problem.

...but as a serious response, this wouldn't make sense, because the entire point of this mod is to be all that. I wouldn't be interested in these as separate mods, because they would be all too shallow and monotonous. The X-Com Files mod has been conceived and planned for exactly this kind of narration, it's not an accidental result. So I know perfectly well what I'm trying to achieve in general and I believe it'll work.

I'm not sure how deep it will go, but yes, this is more or less how I see it. It also depends on RNG, because different factions will show up.

Sounds great

P.S. The first original M.A.G.M.A. weapon - Thresher Heavy Shotgun, or Double-Barrelled on Steroids:


Does look heavy duty!

[Solarius Scorch]

That's fine by me. I very much like the idea of investigating all kind of crazy stuff at once. I also don't find single topic straight-line games as interesting, which is why I really like race/alternate weapons mods and megamods. I was worried that you'd have players fight off the cults and XYZ other factions while also defeating a full blown alien invasion. It's one thing that I think is really hard to get right when building megamods: pacing. You want the variety, but you also want enough time in between fights (or short enough projects) that research progresses between fights so that the player has a sense of progression instead of getting a feeling of being "stalled".

Well, I don't think it'll be very different, except maybe for toning down the frequency of some missions. I'm not really sure it'll be necessary, since for example terror missions will generally be easier to win, with all the weapons you collect from various sources and your squad maxed out on cultists.

Traces of Elerium from crop circles? (investigate 1, research Elerium trace, unlock "Elerium combination" that yields 1 Elerium from 5-10 traces. As an alternate way to start Elerium research.

You mean a special Farm mapblock? Sure, can be done. And the "elerium trace" would be a recoverable tile, like UFO Navigation? (I can imagine some glowing stains on the ground.)
But what would the player do at such a site? Whom would they battle? Certainly not the farmer who called the police...

Maybe use the random containers so that once in a while the aliens forget a piece of equipment behind or something.

Like an unimplanted alien fetus? I have the resources, and the description by Juku.
Yeah, various alien artifacts would be fun. But most of them wouldn't give you anything practical, like Alien Food.

Or you find an abduction victim and remove their implant so you can research it.

Or... an alien fetus!

Maybe 1 alien alloy from a UFO smashing into something? Instead of a UFO, put a mapblock with a crop circle (elerium trace), a parked car or house for the alien abduction, or a smashed up building/tree for the alien alloy.

I'm not sure I can spawn multiple "UFOs" per map, but surely something can be done. These are technicalities.
It looks like yet another arc...

Alright I hope you get it right because it sounds... tricky. A game should be fun. XCom managed the hardcore enemies by making them manageable to kill even if they killed your guys, with the exception, maybe, of lobstermen although they weren't that bad. Similar with the original Piratez personal armored enemies, which were also manageable with bombs. Unarmored and with pistols against armored and armed enemies is the wrong kind of scary for a game. The right kind for a movie (since plot armor will make it happen).

Yeah, well... What can I say? I'll balance it as many times as necessary.

Well, fair enough. I was going to say "maybe keep the sprites?" but that'd probably be confusing.[/quote]

The sprites will be the same as in the FMP, which is more or less the original TFTD look.

Yes, I'm not sure which would be which, since the Apocalypse ones seem more organic and less organized, whereas in Doom I think the forces of Hell are somewhat organized, so it might be that Apocalypse ones are the "chaotic evil" demons and the Doom ones would be devils? Lining up the names is not necessary though, Doom and Apocalypse are both great names too for other dimensions: The Kingdom of Doom and the Realm of the Apocalypse? And the main ideas are to play them off each other to emphasize how different these takes on "other dimension" are and to have the two arcs cross since they are both are about extra-dimensional beings: you could have XCom investigate the satanic cults, find a way to access the Hell dimension, but dial the wrong number and go into the Apocalypse one instead, then they get interested and start coming (could also explain the break in continuity: instead of coming whenever they do in Apocalypse). Or vice versa: Study alien portals, open your own, step in and end up in Doom Hell instead of Apocalypse other dimension. Then so far nonthreatening demon/witch cults benefit from the "break in the wall between dimensions" and actually manage to summon stuff and become a real problem.
Sounds great

Good stuff! Some of it is actually already planned, and the rest will be sorted out later. (The ones responsible for the portals will be

Spoiler:

Cyberweb

though.)

EDIT: An example of a crop circle.