Re: The X-Com Files - 3.5: Whispers In The Dark

[Arthanor]

So I need to earn a proper rifle? OK!

I think the M-16, or whatever the vanilla rifle is, would be fine to unlock with Promotion II. It's oddly hard to unlock it through normal means.

I'm kinda convinced that you can. For example, Stun doesn't cause (additional) stun. Fire doesn't cause fatal wounds. This sort of thing. (Unless I'm wrong?)

I'm pretty sure stun/incendiary/HE damage types are special snowflake damage types that get special treatment in the code to do something. My understanding is that what Meridian was/is offering you is a new damage type that just gets assigned a new resist type. And I don't think it's warranted to differentiate between AP/HP/Gauss/Railgun, as they all work under the same "throw mass at the target" principle, whereas the other damage types are actually different mechanism for inflicting damage (through application of energy by light for laser or super localized heat for plasma).

This sounds really good. Can you please post an example?

Quick mock-up of what I will put in StunGunz because I'm just about to finish my bus trip:

Code: [Select]

  - type: STR_SNIPER_RIFLE_CLIP
    damageAlter:
      ArmorEffectiveness: 0.8
      ToHealth: 1.74
      ToStun: 0.26

  - type: STR_NITRO_EXPRESS_CLIP
    damageAlter:
      ArmorEffectiveness: 1.2
      ToHealth: 1.66
      ToStun: 0.34

So a sniper rifle ignores some body armor, since it's a strictly military weapon I assume it's intended to do so. Once past resist/armor, the damage is partitioned into 13% stun and 87% heath (~15% ratio). By opposition, the Nitro sucks at taking out armored people (bulletproof vests are great at stopping hollow point is my understanding) and causes messier wounds so does 17% stun to 83% health (~20% ratio). Ratios can be tweaked, of course.

[Solarius Scorch]

I think the M-16, or whatever the vanilla rifle is, would be fine to unlock with Promotion II. It's oddly hard to unlock it through normal means.

The biggest problem here is this:

> Player finds an M16
> "Oh wow, such dakka, much firepower, very wow"
> researches his only M16 to buy ammo for it
> Gains nothing
> "I hate this game, must be a bug"
> trudges on throught many missions where that single M16 would be damn useful but he had to take it apart
> researches EXALT Operations and Contact Arms Dealers
> "You can now buy M16!"
> rage quit

I'm pretty sure stun/incendiary/HE damage types are special snowflake damage types that get special treatment in the code to do something. My understanding is that what Meridian was/is offering you is a new damage type that just gets assigned a new resist type. And I don't think it's warranted to differentiate between AP/HP/Gauss/Railgun, as they all work under the same "throw mass at the target" principle, whereas the other damage types are actually different mechanism for inflicting damage (through application of energy by light for laser or super localized heat for plasma).

Yeah, well, I was hoping Meridian would maybe play with this, too.
But more damage types would be useful anyway.

Quick mock-up of what I will put in StunGunz because I'm just about to finish my bus trip:

Code: [Select]

  - type: STR_SNIPER_RIFLE_CLIP
    damageAlter:
      ArmorEffectiveness: 0.8
      ToHealth: 1.74
      ToStun: 0.26

  - type: STR_NITRO_EXPRESS_CLIP
    damageAlter:
      ArmorEffectiveness: 1.2
      ToHealth: 1.66
      ToStun: 0.34

So a sniper rifle ignores some body armor, since it's a strictly military weapon I assume it's intended to do so. Once past resist/armor, the damage is partitioned into 13% stun and 87% heath (~15% ratio). By opposition, the Nitro sucks at taking out armored people (bulletproof vests are great at stopping hollow point is my understanding) and causes messier wounds so does 17% stun to 83% health (~20% ratio). Ratios can be tweaked, of course.

Looks interesting. I lack the knowledge to assess it properly, so I need to study a bit.

[Arthanor]

The biggest problem here is this:

> Player finds an M16
> "Oh wow, such dakka, much firepower, very wow"
> researches his only M16 to buy ammo for it
> Gains nothing
> "I hate this game, must be a bug"
> trudges on throught many missions where that single M16 would be damn useful but he had to take it apart
> researches EXALT Operations and Contact Arms Dealers
> "You can now buy M16!"
> rage quit

Isn't there a new flag that allows you to define if an item is consumed for research or not? Modern gun research should simply not destroy that gun if possible. Also, what I was suggesting is for Promotion II to give the M16 research project free, like it does for LMGs, to offer XCOM a "proper" way of acquire its guns. That there could be an alternative path through arms dealer is perfectly fine and shouldn't break anything as the M16 doesn't have a story article (I think? Still haven't gotten it..)

[Solarius Scorch]

Isn't there a new flag that allows you to define if an item is consumed for research or not? Modern gun research should simply not destroy that gun if possible.

You mean it should be possible for all firearms? Maybe so. It'll be confusing for the player... But maybe it's the best way to go.

Also, what I was suggesting is for Promotion II to give the M16 research project free, like it does for LMGs, to offer XCOM a "proper" way of acquire its guns. That there could be an alternative path through arms dealer is perfectly fine and shouldn't break anything as the M16 doesn't have a story article (I think? Still haven't gotten it..)

The point is, I haven't found the perfect way to do it... It would require exclusive research to be done right.

[ivandogovich]

Also:  Here's a link for the OP, if you are interested.

Video Tutorial: Install X-Com Files
https://youtu.be/L1WUpX9n7gY?t=43m40s

[Solarius Scorch]

Thanks, I've added it to the readme.

Speaking of, version 0.3.2 version 0.3.3 is out. Get it from here.

v. 0.3.2:
- Some changes to the Deep One Village.
- New floorob for Alien Communicator.
- Fixed a random crash with Cult Apprehension missions.
- Another fix for SOLFOREST14 map.
- Fixed wrong damage value on SMG Alloy Clips.
- Many fixes to Ufopaedia (some critical).
- More screams!

v. 0.3.3:
- Improved SMGs a bit.
- Fixed missing files.

[Nord]

Here is a savegame. Cult missions still appear after "Eliminate Black Lotus" and "Eliminate Exalt". Currently now there is 2 missions with black lotus on map. And no, this isnt same month when eliination was researched.

[Solarius Scorch]

Here is a savegame. Cult missions still appear after "Eliminate Black Lotus" and "Eliminate Exalt". Currently now there is 2 missions with black lotus on map. And no, this isnt same month when eliination was researched.

OK, I'll have a look. I might be clueless after all.

EDIT: Yeah, I haven't disabled these missions properly. I'm a horrible modder. Hotfix attached - put it in the rulesets and overwrite.

In other news, I've decided to increase accuracy of all pistols. With their limited range and increased field of vision, they needed a boost.
I'm also in the process of streamlining weapon research to please Arthanor.

[Arthanor]

Woot! Also, I remember reading about others thinking it was surprisingly difficult to get an M16 or AK47. I can't be the only one thinking it's funky that I have to loot those from my enemies but I can fly VTOL aircrafts and deploy what are essentially soldiers (if not commandos, my guys have crazy stats) with LMGs and sniper rifles ;P

Speaking of LMGs, I love that they have snap shots, but it feels like they have really crappy accuracy overall (even on agents with 90+ accuracy). My agents are using them for melee range autoshots more than anything! I'm not sure what's best:
- increasing shot count, which buffs the weapon at range (1/3 of 9 bullets is better than 1/3 of 5), but depends for close range (once you kill your target, it doesn't matter if you could have killed it twice over but it does allow you to kill stronger enemies). I feel like maybe increasing bullets, increasing TUs by a smaller amount might work. It helps kill stuff tough stuff close up, medium stuff from farther but still isn't better than pistols which are very economical when killing softer targets (like masses of scorpions/spiders/chupacabras), or shotguns which really shine at close range (and the new spread independent of accuracy makes worse at medium range for high accuracy soldiers).

- increasing accuracy which buffs at range but also not at close range (since you can't really miss from one tile).

[Solarius Scorch]

Woot! Also, I remember reading about others thinking it was surprisingly difficult to get an M16 or AK47. I can't be the only one thinking it's funky that I have to loot those from my enemies but I can fly VTOL aircrafts and deploy what are essentially soldiers (if not commandos, my guys have crazy stats) with LMGs and sniper rifles ;P

I'll keep that in mind, but I need more proof that it's hard to get.

Speaking of LMGs, I love that they have snap shots, but it feels like they have really crappy accuracy overall (even on agents with 90+ accuracy). My agents are using them for melee range autoshots more than anything! I'm not sure what's best:
- increasing shot count, which buffs the weapon at range (1/3 of 9 bullets is better than 1/3 of 5), but depends for close range (once you kill your target, it doesn't matter if you could have killed it twice over but it does allow you to kill stronger enemies). I feel like maybe increasing bullets, increasing TUs by a smaller amount might work. It helps kill stuff tough stuff close up, medium stuff from farther but still isn't better than pistols which are very economical when killing softer targets (like masses of scorpions/spiders/chupacabras), or shotguns which really shine at close range (and the new spread independent of accuracy makes worse at medium range for high accuracy soldiers).

- increasing accuracy which buffs at range but also not at close range (since you can't really miss from one tile).

The problem is that the LMG is actually a tiered weapon, yours being the worst; so increasing its stats would force me to upgrade the better ones even further... But is it really so bad? I think it has  decent long range accuracy. Maybe it needs an improvement here, too?

[Arthanor]

@Rifles: Well, we're treading old grounds here. I'll just say that the path to LMG/Sniper Rifles and Body Armor is obvious: You get promoted, people are happy with you so they give you better stuff. That you need to pursue shady dealers to get M16s is much less obvious (to me at least). Once you know the tech tree, it might well be that it's easier (fewer research-days) to get M16s than the rest. And no, I am not advocating making the shadily obtained M16 project a pre-requisite to obtaining hardware from proper sources

@LMG: Long range accuracy? My LMG has an autoshot and snap shot only. I've never used it for long range. I try to use it only from 0-1 tiles (1 being when the enemy is melee oriented and facing me and I don't want to get melee reacted to after stepping in or shooting).  My agents use their Lugers at longer ranges or call in sniper support

[Solarius Scorch]

@Rifles: Well, we're treading old grounds here. I'll just say that the path to LMG/Sniper Rifles and Body Armor is obvious: You get promoted, people are happy with you so they give you better stuff. That you need to pursue shady dealers to get M16s is much less obvious (to me at least). Once you know the tech tree, it might well be that it's easier (fewer research-days) to get M16s than the rest. And no, I am not advocating making the shadily obtained M16 project a pre-requisite to obtaining hardware from proper sources

Ah, I get it now. Then it should be fine: in the overhaul I did today, the M16 can be researched normally when found, you just can't buy them yet. But you get the info how to enable buying.

@LMG: Long range accuracy? My LMG has an autoshot and snap shot only.

Well, it has autoRange: 25. I personally think it's significant.

[Arthanor]

@Rifles: I'm curious to see the update. I still think having to go to dealers for M16s when it's a nato weapon (isn't it?) is weird, but eh..

@LMG: Interesting. It didn't occur to me to check and I missed enough from a few tiles, so I used snapshots at range if I didn't have a pistol. Might be fine afterall!

[Solarius Scorch]

Right. Let's keep an eye on these.

Also, attached a small tribute to Meridian.

[Meridian]

Also, attached a small tribute to Meridian.

Oh, this is gonna look so sweet with a custom palette!
Definitely keep the original pictures, we'll convert them later.