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Author Topic: The X-Com Files - 1.4: Signs of Apocalypse  (Read 573234 times)

Offline JeyP

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #285 on: August 30, 2016, 11:58:46 pm »
Unfortunately I am not aware of this option.

But... stupid? Quite the opposite. The TFTD damage is not only bad for the game balance, but it's also unrealistic, unless you are using Dalek death rays. It's an old argument here, please check for example this thread: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4825.0.html for details.

Beauty of PC gaming. "Don't like it? Change it!" For me it's stupid and it always be. Someone with good imagination can think about some randome events that caused a miss hit but for me it's just a game limitation. If it was better made and occure before shoot like weapons durability and jam (something like JA2) it would be good. Still remember plaing X-Com back in the day, losing soldiers in one hit and this happy feel when one survive after hit. Would like to see my facial expression when i saw no damage from taking plasma to the face. Thought that was a game bug. When i hit somthing it need to "bleed" i am ok with 10% but not with 0%.

If you had a save game, it would be good. There is an elusive crash, it might be this.

Save attached.

Yeah, these missions sometimes take long... But I really like them. :P

Not a big fan. Maybe witch better weapons not pistols. It's like ducks shooting except ducks can fly away and zombies just wander around. Probably it's a AI limitations but all mele enemies act just the same. Would be nice to have ~15 aggressive (or even more with lower TU) enemies that go straight at you.

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #286 on: August 31, 2016, 12:51:04 am »
Beauty of PC gaming. "Don't like it? Change it!" For me it's stupid and it always be. Someone with good imagination can think about some randome events that caused a miss hit but for me it's just a game limitation. If it was better made and occure before shoot like weapons durability and jam (something like JA2) it would be good. Still remember plaing X-Com back in the day, losing soldiers in one hit and this happy feel when one survive after hit. Would like to see my facial expression when i saw no damage from taking plasma to the face. Thought that was a game bug. When i hit somthing it need to "bleed" i am ok with 10% but not with 0%.

Oh, I don't mind if you or anyone play at TFTD rules, I was merely stating a view. And well, the mod is balanced for the X-Com formula.
But I would like to add that the X-Com interface is simple, so many things are approximations. 0 is also an approximation, meaning "no loss of combat capability". I'm fine with that. Maybe that plasma bolt only burned off some of that soldiers' jacket. Or the bullet was stopped by a Bible in their pocket. (OK, that last one probably isn't the best example.)

Save attached.

Thanks. Yeah, it crashes... I have no idea why, my analysis of the save shows correct deployment, mission and such. I'll try to investigate further...

Not a big fan. Maybe witch better weapons not pistols. It's like ducks shooting except ducks can fly away and zombies just wander around. Probably it's a AI limitations but all mele enemies act just the same. Would be nice to have ~15 aggressive (or even more with lower TU) enemies that go straight at you.

Well, I was hoping spiders and chupacabras would fill this role... But I'm going to expand the list of creatures if I can!

Offline yrizoud

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #287 on: August 31, 2016, 12:59:37 am »
Zombies are apparently less dangerous than the other (faster) melee enemies. Their large number increases the chance that there is a dangerous situation in the first turns (and thus, challenge). If you don't get a very unlucky start, and manage to hold for a few turns, you can breathe and start a careful cleaning-up at your own rythm. I think it's a welcome change from the other melee enemies : It gives a chance to train troops and test material.

Offline new_civilian

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #288 on: August 31, 2016, 11:57:04 am »
I have an idea for an alien unit: Make it a symbiotic being existing of two beings, one controlling the other. If the combined unit gets killed spawn a tiny parasite (the controlling unit).

As you might have guessed: I just watched a documentation about parasitic worms controlling grashoppers.... if you need nightmares, go google it.  :P

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #289 on: August 31, 2016, 12:07:36 pm »
I have an idea for an alien unit: Make it a symbiotic being existing of two beings, one controlling the other. If the combined unit gets killed spawn a tiny parasite (the controlling unit).

As you might have guessed: I just watched a documentation about parasitic worms controlling grashoppers.... if you need nightmares, go google it.  :P

Yes, I'm all for this kind of stuff. :)
But the implementation needs a lot of thinking. What mission? Where? What resources to use? Do I need to draw the terain? Oh please, no new terrains... :)

Offline new_civilian

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #290 on: August 31, 2016, 12:15:34 pm »
No terrain needed. Just make a unit and enter a SpawnUnit: Parasite entry in its rul. Any mission would do, no need for something special, make it a regular unit.

Oooooohh, Maybe the zombies???!!!  :o
That would explain them!

Offline JeyP

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #291 on: August 31, 2016, 01:19:25 pm »
That way it would be just like any other enemy but with cool story and yes zombies are already like that.
"These infected humans has been completely overtaken by an alien parasite." - Ufopedia

Thanks. Yeah, it crashes... I have no idea why, my analysis of the save shows correct deployment, mission and such. I'll try to investigate further...

Doesn't crash after waiting few days. Haw that works ? It generate different mission after some time ?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 01:40:53 pm by JeyP »

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #292 on: August 31, 2016, 02:18:46 pm »
That way it would be just like any other enemy but with cool story and yes zombies are already like that.
"These infected humans has been completely overtaken by an alien parasite." - Ufopedia

Well yes, although there is more to the zombies. :) It'll be here when I manage to add new units.

Doesn't crash after waiting few days. Haw that works ? It generate different mission after some time ?

Meridian found the problem; turned out there was indeed a (rare) bug in deployments. Will be fixed with the next release.

Offline HelmetHair

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #293 on: August 31, 2016, 04:14:02 pm »

The TFTD damage is not only bad for the game balance, but it's also unrealistic, unless you are using Dalek death rays.

As unrealistic as, let's say.... A secret U.N. program designed to fight aliens without the correct equipment? :)

It's a fucking game and a fun one too. All the bitching and complaining? It shows we live pretty decent lives.

-HH

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #294 on: August 31, 2016, 04:53:09 pm »
As unrealistic as, let's say.... A secret U.N. program designed to fight aliens without the correct equipment? :)

It's a fucking game and a fun one too. All the bitching and complaining? It shows we live pretty decent lives.

Then no discussion about games makes sense. It's just a game, right? What are you doing here by the way, wasting your life on some silly game forum? Go do something meaningful! :P

Of course a game is a model representing a part of a greater reality. The realism of X-Com as an organization is not a theme of the game, and therefore outside the fragment of reality it represents. Whats important is that X-Com exists, not how and why; for all we know, it could be a parallel universe where certain things went differently in world politics. Or something else. (X-Com Files sort of aims to address this, to a degree.)
But combat is within the scope of interest of X-Com no matter how simplified it is), so I expect it to make more sense. And I find flat TFTD damage annoying, because it feels artificial to me. That's all there is!

Offline Arthanor

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #295 on: August 31, 2016, 05:44:27 pm »
HelmetHair is right on one thing: If we have time/energy to waste in arguing about games, we have pretty decent lives. First world problems and all that. It is funny to see how us privileged people can get riled up on such little things. I think his comment was mostly to poke fun at the situation :) A kind of "I stepped back, realized it's a minuscule problem and how lucky we are to be able to consider it as something worth spending time on. This is all just fun and nothing personal/life affecting. Let's be chill." with which I wholeheartedly agree.

Back "on topic": Realism in physics and realism in story are two different things. Striving for one does not necessarily imply striving for the other. There's plenty of stories with unrealistic physics upon which great, sort of believable, entertaining stories are built. (ex.: Dune Lasgun-Shield interactions: why the hell would the gun blow up from hitting the shield? The shield is sending something back it it in a directed way?! And they both have in them power sources as powerful as nuclear bombs yet man portable? Please It's done because the author needed it to tell his story and wanted knife fights. Also, why not spears/swords? Anyhow.. this isn't about Dune sorry). There are also unbelievable stories in which the physics are totally fine, or any other combination.

Solarius has a story he wants to tell and does it with this mod. Whether you think it's a realistic one or not (and whether you enjoy it) is up to you and should have little bearing on the story because it's Solarius' to tell (since it is a work in evolution, fair, constructive criticism should be, and I feel is, welcome). If you don't want to experience the struggle of a secret organization trying to fight the alien invasion and terran bureaucracy at the same time, and obviously that's the story Solarius wants to tell, then just go to another story: Either lead the rebellious girls of the dystopian future, the poor soldiers fighting aliens with a hard-on, or the heroic soldiers fighting for the council and the good of Earth, something else, or just vanilla with some extra stuff. There's quite some choice!

Now in any XCom mod, the experience relies on combat and trying to achieve believable combat is a universal goal because nobody is interested in the story of "and everyone has wonky guns" (which includes both "guns that do nothing most of the time" and "guns that always kill" as both are ridiculous). Of course, there are different philosophies about what believable combat is and how it should be approximated using the current engine. The discussion has already occurred in an already lengthy thread for Piratez. I, for one, have been convinced a while ago by Dioxine that the flat distribution works best given the engine's fighting mechanics as a whole (it makes low armor still valuable, high armor less impervious, for one thing, which I consider good). Should we use a different distribution if the engine was better? Of course! But the engine is not better, it's the engine we have. Using it, many, including two of our foremost modders of which one is the author of this mod, believe that the 0-200% distribution is best. If the actual argument of how it works better given the engine doesn't convince you, at least the fact that it is a reasoned decision should placate you from complaining too regularly about it instead trying to support their really outstanding, entertaining and free work.

Also, luckily, it's a single player game and you can mod their master mod without affecting anyone else's experience, so there's an easy (a fraction of the work Dioxine and Solarius have put in their mod) way to "fix" guns to improve your own experience.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 06:20:15 pm by Arthanor »

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #296 on: August 31, 2016, 05:55:04 pm »
HelmetHair is right on one thing: If we have time/energy to waste in arguing about games, we have pretty decent lives. First world problems and all that. It is funny to see how us privileged people can get riled up on such little things. I think his comment was mostly to poke fun at the situation :) A kind of "I stepped back, realized it's a minuscule problem and how lucky we are to be able to consider it as something worth spending time on. This is all just fun and nothing personal/life affecting. Let's be chill." with which I wholeheartedly agree.

Back "on topic": Realism in physics and realism in story are two different things. Striving for one does not necessarily imply striving for the other. There's plenty of stories with unrealistic physics upon which great, sort of believable, entertaining stories are built. (ex.: Dune Lasgun-Shield interactions: why the hell would the gun blow up from hitting the shield? The shield is sending something back it it in a directed way?! And they both have in them power sources as powerful as nuclear bombs yet man portable? Please It's done because the author needed it to tell his story and wanted knife fights. Also, why not spears/swords? Anyhow.. this isn't about Dune sorry). There are also unbelievable stories in which the physics are totally fine, or any other combination.

Solarius has a story he wants to tell and does it with this mod. Whether you think it's a realistic one or not (and whether you enjoy it) is up to you and should have little bearing on the story because it's Solarius' to tell (since it is a work in evolution, fair, constructive criticism should be, and I feel is, welcome). If you don't want to experience the struggle of a secret organization trying to fight the alien invasion and terran bureaucracy at the same time, and obviously that's the story Solarius wants to tell, then just go to another story: Either lead the rebellious girls of the dystopian future, the poor soldiers fighting aliens with a hard-on, or the heroic soldiers fighting for the council and the good of Earth, something else, or just vanilla with some extra stuff. There's quite some choice!

Now in any XCom mod, the experience relies on combat and trying to achieve believable combat is a universal goal because nobody is interested in the story of "and everyone has wonky guns" (which includes both "guns that do nothing sometimes" and "guns that always kill" as both are ridiculous). Of course, there are different philosophies about what believable combat is and how it should be approximated using the current engine. The discussion has already occurred in an already lengthy thread for Piratez. I, for one, have been convinced a while ago by Dioxine that the flat distribution works best given the engine's fighting mechanics as a whole (it makes low armor still valuable, high armor less impervious, for one thing, which I consider good). Should we use a different distribution if the engine was better? Of course! But the engine is not better, it's the engine we have. Using it, many, including two of our foremost modders of which one is the author of this mod, believe that the 0-200% distribution is best. If the actual argument of how it works better given the engine doesn't convince you, at least the fact that it is a reasoned decision should placate you from complaining too regularly about it instead trying to support their really outstanding, entertaining and free work.

Also, luckily, it's a single player game and you can mod their master mod without affecting anyone else's experience, so there's an easy (a fraction of the work Dioxine and Solarius have put in their mod) way to "fix" guns to improve your own experience.

+ 100. Eloquent and excellent reasoning! Thanks, Arthanor!!!

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #297 on: August 31, 2016, 06:43:45 pm »
Yes, sure, well said Arthanor.

Though my first world would be better if my mod stopped crashing. :P I already asked Meridian twice today, he helped every time, now I'm getting another crash...

I hope to release something when this problem is over, because 1) the current XCF version is very unstable and 2) there's some good new stuff (though not THAT much).

Offline Arthanor

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #298 on: August 31, 2016, 07:48:22 pm »
Well, mod making progress and personal debugger is a pretty good situation too!

Don't let that get to you! I'm looking forward to the next release as the "power armor parts grind" is getting a bit tedious. Seems like your mod would be the perfect breath of fresh air.

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.4.2 alpha: Going Postal
« Reply #299 on: August 31, 2016, 07:52:49 pm »
Don't let that get to you! I'm looking forward to the next release as the "power armor parts grind" is getting a bit tedious. Seems like your mod would be the perfect breath of fresh air.

Thanks, that's really nice to hear. Though I don't think the next release will be "ready" enough, unless you don't play a lot and can upgrade along the way. I just have so much I plan to add! :)

Anyway, I asked Meridian, he'll look into this.