Re: The X-Com Files - 3.5: Whispers In The Dark

[tarkalak]

Solarius really needs to put a chicken on every road map.

There was a time when a chicken could pick a rocket launcher. Alas, this breed is now lost to us.

[Juku121]

Well, that answers the first question. The chicken crossed the road to pick up the rocket launcher.

Also, I thought the best-known version used a sniper rifle?



Edit: Just had a thought. I get that it's largely a gameplay contrivance to make dogs more useful, but why do dogs and rats get motion sensors whereas it's actually the bats who genuinely have a sort of motion sensor 'built in', yet they get nothing?

[tarkalak]

Well, that answers the first question. The chicken crossed the road to pick up the rocket launcher.

Also, I thought the best-known version used a sniper rifle?



Edit: Just had a thought. I get that it's largely a gameplay contrivance to make dogs more useful, but why do dogs and rats get motion sensors whereas it's actually the bats who genuinely have a sort of motion sensor 'built in', yet they get nothing?

It simulates smelling, I think. And the game has nothing else to use but Motion scanners.

[Juku121]

I'm aware. The point being, I don't think sniffing around vs echolocation are all that different in terms of outcome wrt Motion-Sensor-like mechanics. Neither fits very well, and both fit somewhat. So why are bats discriminated against here?

Also, dogs are the best animals, yet the easiest to acquire. Rats pretty much have only their niche of scouting around walls, sniffing around and hoping they're small enough that nobody notices them. Bats get to be flying, nighttime scouts. Yet a drone is much better as a scout, unless you like losing your pets all the time. And a dog is a passable scout, gets armour, sniffing, barking and a much stronger bite.

The tamed cryptids are a gimmick is what I'm saying here. And not a very good one. If bats had very high nighttime camo and their bite drained TU, one might try to use them to pick off isolated targets, assassin-style. Right now, not so much. Rats are even worse and fall off badly when enemies start sporting armour.

I suppose I have no real grounds to complain since animals being worse than humans at squad-level warfare is pretty realistic.

[SladeHiro]

Also, dogs are the best animals, yet the easiest to acquire.

Not sure about the cryptid not got one of them yet. But feel the rats and bats are better than you think. Though may just be a subjective thing

Dogs are easiest to get and start off fairly competent.

Bats start off quite weak but can fly. You can train them up and they are actually quite strong at picking off stragglers once you get their melee accuracy up and health. They are insanely hard to hit in melee unlike dogs so gunfire is what they need to worry about.
So run up to someone so they cqc instead of shoot, and the bat is going to be fine.
Get their health up so they survive a shot and their attack heals their health making them able to live even with fatal wounds providing you keep attacking people.

Rats I don't use much but from what I see. They start with a weak bite but their attack is based off strength meaning getting their strength up can make them hurt as it's power bonus is 5*strength. Which I may be wrong with how I think its calculated so correct me if I'm wrong but a rat at 10 strength would have an attack of 5+(5*10) so 55 Which would be 15 more than the dogs bite. Get 20 strength on a rat and your looking at an attack of 105 meaning a highly trained rat can be quite powerful.

[Juku121]

Not sure about the cryptid not got one of them yet.

I'm not sure where you live that ROUS and blood-sucking bats are not cryptids to you.

But feel the rats and bats are better than you think. Though may just be a subjective thing

Possibly.

Bats start off quite weak but can fly.

I feel flying is kinda wasted on the bats. It allows them to scout a bit better, but the big problem with scouting is attracting fire. And bats just die to bullets. OTOH, you don't want to fly your bat into the thick of things, and getting to stragglers is rarely helped by flying.

You can train them up and they are actually quite strong at picking off stragglers once you get their melee accuracy up and health.

Well, okay, maybe I underestimated them a little. Possibly because I play with CQB requiring TU (and consider the vanilla version a dirty cheat ), which means they're not quite as invulnerable in melee.

Still, it means the bat is one failed CQB roll away from dying, since even at max HP (30) they might take a weak bullet and live. A TU drain would work well to complement that.

They are insanely hard to hit in melee...

Hmm, true. So against melee-only enemies they're actually pretty OK. Then again, that's mostly cryptids and zombies. Pretty much anything that's an actual fight slings lead at you, in quantity.

They start with a weak bite but their attack is based off strength meaning getting their strength up can make them hurt as it's power bonus is 5*strength. Which I may be wrong with how I think its calculated so correct me if I'm wrong but a rat at 10 strength would have an attack of 5+(5*10) so 55 Which would be 15 more than the dogs bite. Get 20 strength on a rat and your looking at an attack of 105 meaning a highly trained rat can be quite powerful.

Sadly, a rat will never get that kind of strength. They max out at 2, which means the best they can hope for is 6 strengh from maxing their experience roll at 6. And that requires risking them in battle before they train to 2 strength. Typically, a rat will have 2-4 strength, and 2 is rather common due to training.

They do get armor piercing bite and the ability to gnaw armour to bits, so in theory they might still be worth something. Sadly, having a rat try gnawing through armour tends to result in a dead rat. I guess if you have a large transport and constantly breed new rats, you can play ratmeister and send a few rats in as kamikazes every now and then.

The only real niche rats have is their stealth and ability to see through walls.

[SladeHiro]

I'm not sure where you live that ROUS and blood-sucking bats are not cryptids to you.

my bad I read what you said as a cryptid being something different I haden't seen yet lol.

I feel flying is kinda wasted on the bats. It allows them to scout a bit better, but the big problem with scouting is attracting fire. And bats just die to bullets. OTOH, you don't want to fly your bat into the thick of things,

Yeah you don't want to fly into the thick of things unless you can hit and run back to safety, which would be risky.
Though sometimes I will send my bat into a building and run them out hit something close enough and run back in. behind an inside door if possible.

Well, okay, maybe I underestimated them a little. Possibly because I play with CQB requiring TU.

I'm playing with just x-com files so yeah that would make you need to reserve tu's to make them not get shot point blank it sounds like, but the bat does get a nice amount of them.
30 HP to start you mean? my bat in my game I'm playing now has more HP then that.

Sadly, a rat will never get that kind of strength.

you may be right. I'll find out since I'm going to try and train a rat up in my current game. I may well be disappointed. lol

Attached an image of the stats of a bat i got in my current game.

[Juku121]

30 HP to start you mean? my bat in my game I'm playing now has more HP then that.

No, just 10-15 to start. If you look closely, the thick bar in your picture ends exactly at 30. The rest is from commendations.

I guess a bat actually can work as a "can't touch this!" skirmisher. And health commendations are rather more powerful for them due to low HP.

My big issue is that I can't really use the bat in any situation where I'd normally use an armoured soldier, because every mistake is more costly. I suppose there are segments of the game where everyone is equally vulnerable and bats work quite well in that case.



Edit: Moved the post here, because it's not a bug. Well, unless you use older slang for aliens and consider Hybrids such.


A hybrid chopping firewood. Those Chemtrails don't run on solar, you know.



Edit2: Okay, who had the bright idea to put a freaking MiB Shock Trooper into a mission at about the two-year mark? Is this some Heavy Cannon fetish I'm not aware of?

Because the one way to ruin a player's fun is to put in a faction that's supposedly roughly comparable, and then proceed to cheat the hell out of them. It almost made me quit right there.

[Moth_Of_Decay]

Apologies if this isn't an appropriate place to post a suggestion - but I was thinking about the various xcom animals and it occurs to me that they all fall into the "relatively weak but nimble" category. Given that fenrir wolves have very little presence in the mod currently, have you considered the possibility of a dog-specific form of bio-enhancement that transforms them into a fenrir wolf? I think it has a lot of interesting potential tactically, almost like an organic tank with fangs.

[krautbernd]

Apologies if this isn't an appropriate place to post a suggestion - but I was thinking about the various xcom animals and it occurs to me that they all fall into the "relatively weak but nimble" category. Given that fenrir wolves have very little presence in the mod currently, have you considered the possibility of a dog-specific form of bio-enhancement that transforms them into a fenrir wolf? I think it has a lot of interesting potential tactically, almost like an organic tank with fangs.

Fenrir wolf would make for a lousy tank, not withstading that it would be hampered on basically every level by being a melee-only 4x4 unit. Pit an exisiting player tank unit against a fenrir wolf and see how well it fairs. Just a guess, but the wolf is probably going to die from a single salvo from a rocket or cannon unless it starts in close proximity said tank and gets extremely lucky with the damage rolls.

[Juku121]

Well, Fenrir wolves will probably come and go before you get an actual tank, unless you beeline for those.

I do want me some tamed Reapers, though. Mmm, fluffy!

[Moth_Of_Decay]

Fenrir wolf would make for a lousy tank, not withstading that it would be hampered on basically every level by being a melee-only 4x4 unit. Pit an exisiting player tank unit against a fenrir wolf and see how well it fairs. Just a guess, but the wolf is probably going to die from a single salvo from a rocket or cannon unless it starts in close proximity said tank and gets extremely lucky with the damage rolls.

When I say "Tank" I mean higher health relative to the regular dogs, not in comparison to a literal tank. Especially in the early game the wolves can take quite a few hits from small-arms. I would imagine as an upgraded dog having stronger bite/bark and sensor ability would keep them relevant in their own way.

I also tend to use the regular dogs as a way to rapidly transport equipment across the map, and having an upgraded dog able to carry more equipment would serve a purpose the armored vehicles simply do not. Strapping on some spare rockets, medpacks, ammunition, or whatever else your crew needs will go a long way to transforming your seemingly limited melee unit into a versatile logistical support unit. With armor that gave the wolf a "backpack" I can also easily imagine getting a ton of use simply having it carry wounded/stunned units back to the ship.

[Fomka]

When I say "Tank" I mean higher health relative to the regular dogs, not in comparison to a literal tank. Especially in the early game the wolves can take quite a few hits from small-arms. I would imagine as an upgraded dog having stronger bite/bark and sensor ability would keep them relevant in their own way.

I wasn't impressed by Fenrir wolves, but yes, they can be relevant - if clad in cyber armor.

I also tend to use the regular dogs as a way to rapidly transport equipment across the map, and having an upgraded dog able to carry more equipment would serve a purpose the armored vehicles simply do not. Strapping on some spare rockets, medpacks, ammunition, or whatever else your crew needs will go a long way to transforming your seemingly limited melee unit into a versatile logistical support unit. With armor that gave the wolf a "backpack" I can also easily imagine getting a ton of use simply having it carry wounded/stunned units back to the ship.

Dogs have pockets removed in 2.4 version (or earlier?). I used them to carry some things before, but now it is not possible: they have no backpack, no belt, no pockets and both "hand" slots are occupied. What version do you use?

A dog carrying wounded agent for evacuation will be a nice feature to have. Or a dog that can run into a cult's safehouse, grab a money briefcase and go back for evac...

I'm thinking on make dogs with one free "hand" slot. This way a dog can carry one thing of any size, simulating dog's mouth-grab. Investigation on whether the Bark and the Bite can be assigned to one slot is needed. Can someone answer the question - is it possible to combine dog's bark and dog's bite into one weapon item with two use modes?

[Juku121]

Can someone answer the question - is it possible to combine dog's bark and dog's bite into one weapon item with two use modes?

Maybe by turning the bite into a gunbutt weapon? Not sure, but I think you'll lose reaction biting that way.

Otherwise, I don't think so. The dogs are already laden with built-in weapons.

Maybe just give them a belt or backpack slot.



Edit: Wonder what's so interesting about these bushes?



Edit2: How about adding a guy like that? I feel there's a lack of Really Manly dudes on the RD side. Sadly, I can't draw, so I can't make him a truly awesome mansome paperdoll. :'(

[Moth_Of_Decay]

I wasn't impressed by Fenrir wolves, but yes, they can be relevant - if clad in cyber armor.
Dogs have pockets removed in 2.4 version (or earlier?). I used them to carry some things before, but now it is not possible: they have no backpack, no belt, no pockets and both "hand" slots are occupied. What version do you use?

A dog carrying wounded agent for evacuation will be a nice feature to have. Or a dog that can run into a cult's safehouse, grab a money briefcase and go back for evac...

I'm currently playing 2.5 and my dogs have pockets? They just have to be wearing dog combat gear. Unless I've been hallucinating furry guided missiles carrying hi-ex payloads for the last hundred missions or so.