Re: The X-Com Files - 3.5: Whispers In The Dark

[tarkalak]

Cult Suppression missions also have both Lads and Pioneers. They're kind of a 'failure to Network' thing, though. And even then both Lads and Pioneers appear in them. I don't know of a single mission that only has Lads.

Safehouses are only Gangsters and Lads, I believe.

[Juku121]

Safehouses are only Gangsters and Lads, I believe.

Nuh-uh.

From alienDeployments_XCOMFILES.rul (2.5 edition):

Code: [Select]

  - type: STR_CULT_INVESTIGATION_ZSRR
    ...
    alert: STR_ALERT_CULT_INVESTIGATION
    alertBackground: ZSRR_LADS_BACKGROUND.SCR
    alertDescription: STR_CULT_INVESTIGATION_ZSRR_DESCRIPTION
    ...
      desc: STR_CULT_INVESTIGATION_BRIEFING
    ...
    data:
      - alienRank: 5
        lowQty: 2
        highQty: 8
        dQty: 4
      ...
      - alienRank: 4
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 2
        dQty: 0
      ...
      - alienRank: 3
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 2
        dQty: 0
      ...
From alienRaces_XCOMFILES.rul:

Code: [Select]

  - id: STR_ZSRR
    members:
      - STR_ZSRR_UBEK                         // rank 0
      - STR_ZSRR_MATROS                     // rank 1
      - STR_ZSRR_PIONEER_FEMALE       // rank 2
      - STR_ZSRR_PIONEER_MALE          // rank 3
      - STR_ZSRR_MOLOLEC                  // rank 4 - Lad
      - STR_ZSRR_GANGER                   // rank 5
      - STR_ZSRR_RED_OPS_FEMALE
      - STR_ZSRR_RED_OPS_MALE
      - STR_ZSRR_RED_OPS_MALE
      - STR_ZSRR_RED_OPS_FEMALE
      - STR_ZSRR_MOLOLEC
      - STR_ZSRR_RED_OPS_FEMALE
      - STR_ZSRR_RED_OPS_FEMALE
      - STR_ZSRR_RED_OPS_FEMALE

It's not even that Pioneers would fail to show up sometimes. There's always at least one.

[Thunderwing280]

It's not even that Pioneers would fail to show up sometimes. There's always at least one.

Yeah that's what I've seen, it makes sense lore wise too tbh, having a low rank officer to organise the rank and file.

[Solarius Scorch]

But my biggest gripe is that this +5HP translates to about zero difference in gameplay.

I honestly don't feel this way. The buff in HP is rather noticeable (though not as much as EXALT's armour).

"Nobody bothered to correct me" is not an argument. You really need to familiarise yourself with how iconic firearms look if you're going to make a 'gun porn' mod.

It's not an argument, I LITERALLY ASKED YOU IF YOU WERE SURE.

I've never even heard of these guns before someone gave me the graphics... Honestly, who knows all this crap by heart? Why? I wouldn't have imagined it before releasing XCF...
I might do something about it if I have the energy to do so, but honestly, this is not something I expected to be a thing. I don't think more than a few people I knw can tell a difference between a pistol and a revolver, and here I get bombarded with all this meaningful nitpicking. Then again, factual accuracy is important to me...
What's next, complaints about alien physiology not conforming to PhD level biology because enzyme X cannot do Y?

But, okay: Sten, Sterling. Note the barrel shroud.

WTF is a "barrel shroud"?

Now, the Sten gun did come in a few different marks. The above is the most popular and iconic one, Mark II. Mark III did look a lot more like the bigob. But none of them had that exact kind of perforated barrel shroud (though Mark III came close and some others could have somewhat similar sound suppressors).

Can't say they're much different (as both look like scrap with a metal bar), but okay

[Juku121]

I honestly don't feel this way. The buff in HP is rather noticeable...

Okay, give me an example. Or another player can tell me that their experience is also different. Because mine is quite the opposite. Even +15 is not very noticeable.

In most situations, a Disciple of Dagon takes 1-2 taps with a light weapon to go down, and 1 with a heavy one. A Red Dawn Ganger/Lad is the same, except the OHKOs are somewhat rarer. Not enough to translate to any difference in how I treat the two. I've now killed at least a few hundred of either in relatively close succession, and their survivability is entirely too close. Both are significantly more likely to survive a single hit than the weakest enemies/civilians, and neither is worth any special consideration a la trying to shoot Goons and Enforcers in the back.

When I'm in the Gang War and occasionally gank a 'red' ganger for his weapons, I literally can not tell their survivability from their opponents. That's the +5 HP situation.

It's not an argument, I LITERALLY ASKED YOU IF YOU WERE SURE.

Why did you add this extra wordage, then? The question would have been the same without this bit. I could only read it as a reason for you to doubt my Thunderwing120's word. But whatever.

I've never even heard of these guns before someone gave me the graphics... Honestly, who knows all this crap by heart?

People who play 'gun porn' games. Firearms enthusiasts. History buffs focused on whatever period these come from.

I might do something about it if I have the energy to do so, but honestly, this is not something I expected to be a thing.

As I told you before, by going the 'gun porn' route you made your own bed.

And switching some strings around to say "Sterling" instead of "Sten" is not much work. Well, the history blurb would also need replacing. Sterling is not as famous as Sten, and I guess it's greatest claim to fame is being the official British SMG for most of post-WW2, and being used as a base for Star Wars blasters.

What's next, complaints about alien physiology not conforming to PhD level biology because enzyme X cannot do Y?

Well, it's mostly been you who's concerned with such details.

WTF is a "barrel shroud"?

The perforated cylinder around the business end of the gun. What, you thought a 9mm SMG has such a beefy barrel?

Can't say they're much different (as both look like scrap with a metal bar), but okay

Well, Mk 1 and Mk 5 have wooden furniture, but yeah, the entire point of Sten was that it was scrap metal masquerading as a gun.

[krautbernd]

I might do something about it if I have the energy to do so, but honestly, this is not something I expected to be a thing. I don't think more than a few people I knw can tell a difference between a pistol and a revolver, and here I get bombarded with all this meaningful nitpicking. Then again, factual accuracy is important to me...

As far as I'm concerned this isn't much of an issue. You're taking some many other freedoms with other real-world analogues in the game that being pendandic about a subset of firearms is kind of pointless. The mod takes place in an alternate history anyway, so who's to say that the guns have to be identical with the weapons they're based on? I mean even the laws of nature in XCF don't conform to our world, why do the guns have to be depicted in a perfectly identical manner? Given that history has turned out differently, why should gun designs/designers/companies be exempt from this? It's a perfectly viable choice to use "alternate" designs in my oppinion.

[Juku121]

The mod takes place in an alternate history anyway, so who's to say that the guns have to be identical with the weapons they're based on?

Because people who play for 'gun porn' expect that to be roughly accurate. That's actually the usual reason to make 'gun porn', you can draw from RL , for stats and to have it resonate with players who have a personal preference due to other games or RL. A half-assed attempt satisfies no one.

I would have little issue with the whole thing if Solarius used slightly fictional or generic weapons. Baretta instead of Beretta, "9mm Pistol" or "9mm Army Pistol" or "Army Pistol" instead of Beretta 92/M9. If Sten/Sterling was an 'Old 9mm SMG' or something, no-one would care which exact sprite it uses.

But, well, what's done is done. Unless Solarius feels particularly masochistic, we can only expect to get the most glaring mistakes to be fixed.



On a completely different topic, why are Crop Circle and Cattle Mutilation farmers always male? Are they hiding their women and children under the bed?



Edit: Strange that the Flame Glove does not have a handob. I have this one, and I can't recall where I got it.

[Corento]

people playing "gun porn" games do not play games where the gun visualisation is made by let say 16x10 pixels, you will realy will not see the marking of the producer on it.
So you cannot say if your gun is Beretta, or brazilian Taurus, or another xyz copy in real world. So it is 9mm pistol, why not ?

I see no mistakes in game (unless something is broken, bug, or so) - graphic is pixel art, intentionaly looking like old 1994 Xcoms, and that exactly why me, Solarius and another few thousends ppl here playing this games and modes - we are "classic games porn"  players, where extreme realism do not play the role.

just for fun I would like to see your comment how real are all the sci fi monsters and aliens ? Did you met them? are they exactly as you saw them ?

So then if one important thing in the game cannot be absolutly real, why should be all others ?

I guess you saw few movies or series where in future soldiers has G36 and P90 guns, which are actually from 1970+ in real life. That I guess tearing you appart when you watching it.

[Juku121]

people playing "gun porn" games do not play games where the gun visualisation is made by let say 16x10 pixels, you will realy will not see the marking of the producer on it.

You have a pretty restricted concept of what 'gun porn' is. JA2 v1.13, possibly the most 'gun porn' game in existence, had a shitload of crappy dark silhouettes of guns cropped from photos that had neither visible producer markings nor even much detail.

So you cannot say if your gun is Beretta, or brazilian Taurus, or another xyz copy in real world

Yeah, you can't get that. So what, it is not a binary choice between 'gun porn with exact model, year of manufacture and armourer's signature' and 'no gun porn'.

I see no mistakes in game (unless something is broken, bug, or so) - graphic is pixel art...

Which is a bullshit argument when your picture is visibly closer to another well-known gun, even as a tiny-ass sprite. Are you telling me if Solarius made the Beretta use the Mauser sprite, it'd be okay, 'no mistakes', because they both 9mm pistols? All the while being specifically identified as a Beretta?

If it doesn't matter, why even have specific manufacturers and models?

that exactly why me, Solarius and another few thousends ppl here playing this games and modes - we are "classic games porn"  players, where extreme realism do not play the role.

Classic games are no different than modern ones in the 'extreme realism' department. There are some that go very deep, and some that do not. I do not play XCF for the pixel art, I play it because nobody has managed to make a better X-Com game since. I think you'll find that quite a few of the 'thousends' do it for the same reason, not because they're 'classic'.

just for fun I would like to see your comment how real are all the sci fi monsters and aliens ? Did you met them? are they exactly as you saw them ?

They are exactly as I saw them.

The difference is that there are no examples of real monsters and aliens. There are tons of examples of guns, and rather extensive data on how they work.

If Solarius had a definite claim (and, better yet, an entry in the Ufopedia) that "guns and gun manufacturers were taken over by aliens/Illuminati and produced some weird shit due to that, which is strangely enough still named the same", fair enough. Right now, I'm not sure he even knows with certainty which way he wants to go.

So then if one important thing in the game cannot be absolutly real, why should be all others ?

This is the stupid argument of "Why can't I have a thousand 300-foot pet dragons, read everyone's mind and be the super-special elf-fairy-angel princess? John can cast 'Fireball', it's all fantasy, everything is possible!".

This is in fact a rather central theme in SF. What if this was so, yet everything else remained as close to reality as possible? Read the book, watch the movie or play the game to find out.

By your argument, why are X-Com operatives not all 3-foot-tall Ratmen, armed with lethal bubble guns and tail knives? We have aliens, why not? Whyyy not?!

It's a silly argument on par with "it's what my character would do".

Solarius himself has his own 'realism' arguments regarding why Taser Cannons cannot shoot more than twice or why only 'live' matter can be psionic, which are both quite a bit more fantastic than the Illuminati switching Sten and Sterling around. Clearly 'realism' matters to some degree in this mod.

I guess you saw few movies or series where in future soldiers has G36 and P90 guns, which are actually from 1970+ in real life.

That 1970+ is actually 1990+. I'm not bothered by people using old firearms. There can even be good reasons for that, cf. the current fucknuggetry in Ukraine.

I am bothered by fictional Russians rushing Kherson, M14s in hand and driving AMX-30s. And I'm bothered by AKM's and AKSU-74s firing the same ammo (which got fixed). YMMV.



Ending on a more fun note, wonder why this Maid is being kept in a cage next to an operating table? These Red Dawn guys seem to be into some weird shit.

[Corento]

OK I see, you are the person with zero tolerance to arguments of other people. Nothing against you, you grow up like this.
I´m a king of person who eat sausage with mustard, ketchup or apple, I do not care... if you understand...

But you have to understand that Solarius and other contributors spend thousend of hours on this game, where they have to think about how to spent them effectively.
Not be in position like Star citizen, where everything looks great, but the game is barelly playable even after 8 years and bambilion of money.

So let them do their work how they wanted, because they are authors of their dreams and imaginations.
Do not tell Van Gogh how to paint his own pictures.

If you really miss all these thing you wrote about, just make your own mod, spend hundreds of hours and release it here, I think lot of people here will enjoy your work.
If you are able to do so... I´m not, I have to be creative in my job, after job I want just enjoy the game as the author made it. If I like it I will play it, if it frustrate me I will go look elsewhere.

Have a nice day and spent a little time to praise people around not just criticize, they will like you more

Maid just cleaning the cage and maybe smoke cigarette there, what is wrong about it? Your soldiers fall in, with nasty guns, killing everything.... and she just want to do her job as every day....   bad bad xcom...

[Juku121]

OK I see, you are the person with zero tolerance to arguments of other people.

I have nothing against good arguments. I can acknowledge such and have done so before.

What I have little patience for is poor arguments, or attempts at shutting down all criticism altogether.

But you have to understand that Solarius and other contributors spend thousend of hours on this game, where they have to think about how to spent them effectively.

I am fully aware. I am a modder myself, and in fact made a substantial mini-fork of XCF in the early days. I'm even in the credits for a tiny contribution or two.

I have also spent quite a few hours in the last few months changing the mod around to fix the most egregious things (IMO, of course).

You should take your own advice and do some research before lecturing.

So let them do their work how they wanted, because they are authors of their dreams and imaginations.
Do not tell Van Gogh how to paint his own pictures.

Yeah, why invite feedback in the first place, then? This is another one of these stupid arguments along the lines of "I only play as the creator(s) intended!" If we follow that argument to it's logical conclusion, XCF should not exist and X-Com itself should have had no Geoscape because Gollop didn't come up with it.

If you really miss all these thing you wrote about, just make your own mod, spend hundreds of hours and release it here, I think lot of people here will enjoy your work.

I have in fact had such a plan on the back burner for... five years now? I occasionally even collect and polish resources for that. But I have other interests and projects, too, not to mention RL. And even using Solarius's work as a base, it's a mountain of work.

You can find an embryonic mod from the early days still up around here.

If you are able to do so... I´m not, I have to be creative in my job, after job I want just enjoy the game as the author made it. If I like it I will play it, if it frustrate me I will go look elsewhere.

And why should your way of enjoying the game supercede mine? Because this is basically what you're saying here: "Enjoy the mod as it is or get out, no criticism allowed!" I hope you understand why I don't like such an attitude.

Have a nice day and spent a little time to praise people around not just criticize, they will like you more

I'm not here to get likes. I'm here to help make the mod better. If Solarius gets some use out of the arguments of myself or others for some specific change or feature, all good. If he does not still like it, he can say no and I can respect that. Look at the Liquidator armour proposal, for example.

You are trying to shoot down any and all arguments beforehand via "praise not criticism" and "van Gogh". The previous argument was "not real, therefore no reasoning can apply, ever, anywhere". IMO, both are some fine echo chamber advocacy right there.

Maid just cleaning the cage and maybe smoke cigarette there, what is wrong about it? Your soldiers fall in, with nasty guns, killing everything.... and she just want to do her job as every day.... bad bad xcom...

No guns. My X-Com tases and kidnaps all the maids for their own use.



Edit: What does "...particularly effective against lightly armored targets." mean for the Pulse SMG (and presumably other Pulse weapons)? AFAICT, right now this is just a way to hide the true power of these guns from players who do not use the INFO button.



Edit2: Speaking of praise, I just ran into a Hacienda for the first time. No idea why I hadn't seen one before. Well, RNG. It's probably my favourite 'new' mission. I would even call it a Mansion done right. Was even a little disappointed that the end boss was 'just' a Fixer.

I especially liked how the most heavily armed guys were defending the meat locker, pockets stuffed with dollar bills. Shows where their priorities are were.



Edit3: Never though about it before, but why are dogs barred from Asylum Apparitions but rats and bats are not? Because both are slightly supernatural themselves? Hmm, that doesn't really seem to be a good answer.

[SladeHiro]

Thanks for the great mod.

Are you sure? Nobody pointed out anything like this in years.

Personally no idea about the accuracy, looked on google images and seems to be the sterling.
I attached a pixel art I did of the sten gun I saw on google, by modifying the image of the one already in the mod.

don't know if it's good enough though, not a gun person.

[Juku121]

The sprite kinda looks like Mark 5, but lacks its foregrip. And Mark V is a less known gun, used to (slowly) supplement earlier marks and served for less than ten years after the war. Compared to Mark II and Sterling, it's a pretty niche gun.



Edit: Mecascorpion round table. Wonder what the topics for the panel discussions are?

[Fomka]

Edit: Mecascorpion round table. Wonder what the topics for the panel discussions are?

The first topic: Why did the chicken cross the road?
The second: Why should they cross the road?

[Juku121]

Solarius really needs to put a chicken on every road map.