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Author Topic: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell  (Read 844074 times)

Offline Mrvex

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Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
« Reply #4200 on: May 07, 2021, 02:47:44 pm »
Solarius, is it intended that X-Com is free to murder UAC employees with impunity? It's one thing to kill UAC mercenaries during an "arrest", but how come X-Com is free to straight out raid a UAC R&D-Lab and pretty much kill everyone on sight without even getting so much as a negative score? Most of the engineers are bystanders, yet they are treated as legitimate targets.



Its a core feature thing, you can only have 3 teams in game, XCOM, Civilians and XCOM Allies, then Enemies themselves
Engineers if they would be be placed to Civilians, they would be attacked by UAC guards which makes even less sense than XCOM trying to contain informations and forbidden knowledge.


Offline krautbernd

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Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
« Reply #4201 on: May 07, 2021, 02:53:51 pm »
Its a core feature thing, you can only have 3 teams in game, XCOM, Civilians and XCOM Allies, then Enemies themselves
Engineers if they would be be placed to Civilians, they would be attacked by UAC guards which makes even less sense than XCOM trying to contain informations and forbidden knowledge.
I am aware of the limititations concerning x-com vs. aliens vs. civilians - this is about points values assigned to killed units/recovered bodies and no other negative repercussions stemming from the raid.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2021, 02:57:10 pm by krautbernd »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
« Reply #4202 on: May 07, 2021, 04:23:31 pm »
But at that point it becomes just "another" infiltration mission.

(...)

What is the intended fun you are supposed to have in this mission?

To be honest I don't see a need to make every mission different. Yes, it's a fairly standard infiltration mission. What's wrong with that? Infiltration missions are fun.

Solarius, is it intended that X-Com is free to murder UAC employees with impunity? It's one thing to kill UAC mercenaries during an "arrest", but how come X-Com is free to straight out raid a UAC R&D-Lab and pretty much kill everyone on sight without even getting so much as a negative score? Most of the engineers are bystanders, yet they are treated as legitimate targets.

It is indeed not normal, but in this case intended - for political reasons.

On top of that UAC is a major supplier of X-Com tech / technology in general. Are they okay with X-Com raiding their facilities and abducting their staff? While the council didn't "discourage" X-Com from pursuing leads regarding illegal weapon distribution, I don't think they meant "raid UAC facilities and murder/abduct their staff with impunity".

I think the UAC arc kinda answers that if you get deeper. They are probably not okay with that, but they have their circumstances.

Offline krautbernd

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Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
« Reply #4203 on: May 07, 2021, 06:23:42 pm »
To be honest I don't see a need to make every mission different. Yes, it's a fairly standard infiltration mission. What's wrong with that? Infiltration missions are fun.
...for a reason and to a varying degree. This one is not, due to the setup. You can stretch suspension of disbelief to a point, but x-com wearing animal furs while going up against a fully armed and armored strike-team is defintely something that does not fit the narrative.

If this was part of an elaborate plan to abduct a contact it might be believable. But X-Com starts out completely exposed, facing off mercenaries and trusting in their bare skin to block bullets (or rockets). X-Com arrives, disembarks and attacks immediately.

At that point, what's even the purpose of wearing the disguise? During beach+winter missions X-Com starts out in buildings - meaning the disguise was necessary to infiltrate said locations. As a result your agents also start out in cover (more or less). Industrial espionage has enemies that are lightly armed, mostly with makeshift weapons due to the setting. Which fits in with X-Com going in unarmored - your agents are - if anything - only slightly outmatched. With this mission there isn't even any explanation in the briefing that something has gone wrong or how that plan was supposed to go off (compare the "meet the informant" mission).

It's not even clear why the disguise is needed in the first place - I guess X-Com sets up the meeting remotely (otherwise they could just nap their contact there and then), drives up in a Van (with tainted windows so no one but the driver would actually need to be in disguise?), gets out and then...demands that the mercenaries submit and get in the van? This is at least missing an explanation as to why, exactely, X-Com is starting off in a shooting gallery, outmatched and with no backup-plan.

It is indeed not normal, but in this case intended - for political reasons. I think the UAC arc kinda answers that if you get deeper. They are probably not okay with that, but they have their circumstances.
But why is X-Com going in guns blazing if you are (originially) only supposed to "arrest and interrogate" their personal? Shouldn't this also be a mission that has weapon restrictions, seeing how you are also facing unarmed civilians? The engineers working at that site aren't even involved in anything illegal, going by the interrogation.

Why is X-Com concerned about interring some human bones they find in a cave, but has no qualms about shooting unarmed and innocent civilians?

Offline 8mono

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Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
« Reply #4204 on: May 09, 2021, 07:10:23 am »
Is there a cruiser UFOpeadia or research entry? I had never seen one before until a terror mission today

Offline MemoryTAS

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Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
« Reply #4205 on: May 17, 2021, 01:21:25 am »
Do you need to shoot down the cyberweb battleship in order to trigger the mission or can you just wait it out, it's not exactly clear. Because christ is shooting that thing down terrifying to me atm

Offline 8mono

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Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
« Reply #4206 on: May 17, 2021, 01:37:17 am »
Do you need to shoot down the cyberweb battleship in order to trigger the mission or can you just wait it out, it's not exactly clear. Because christ is shooting that thing down terrifying to me atm

Unless it changes at higher difficulties (which I don't think) you shouldn't need to shoot it down, I've dealt with the mission like 2 or 3 times in my campaigns where I didn't even see the battleship itself, just the mission

Offline Fomka

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Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
« Reply #4207 on: May 17, 2021, 09:24:38 pm »
Am I right thinking that the Cyberweb Battleship is
Spoiler:
that large UFO that once a month flies for a long time over almost all the globe at a low altitude?

Offline MemoryTAS

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Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
« Reply #4208 on: May 17, 2021, 10:30:30 pm »
Yes

Offline unarmed drifter

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Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
« Reply #4209 on: May 17, 2021, 11:01:14 pm »
so i did the syndicate CEO mission an hour ago.
Unfortunately, the burning CEO freak stepped on a proxy grenade which i threw a few turns earlier and forgot about. Now he's dead and i only have the corpse.
How bad is that? This time i made a proper save before mission start so i'm willing to do the mission again if it's a Black Lotus avatar thing.
(i lost 7/16)

Offline MemoryTAS

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Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
« Reply #4210 on: May 18, 2021, 12:08:15 am »
You need to catch a live one, but the mission will show up again.

Offline Thunderwing280

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Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
« Reply #4211 on: May 18, 2021, 12:13:19 am »
so i did the syndicate CEO mission an hour ago.
Unfortunately, the burning CEO freak stepped on a proxy grenade which i threw a few turns earlier and forgot about. Now he's dead and i only have the corpse.
How bad is that? This time i made a proper save before mission start so i'm willing to do the mission again if it's a Black Lotus avatar thing.
(i lost 7/16)
You need the CEO alive in order to advance the storyline, him dying isn't terrible, another mission will always pop up.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
« Reply #4212 on: May 18, 2021, 04:08:34 pm »
...for a reason and to a varying degree. This one is not, due to the setup. You can stretch suspension of disbelief to a point, but x-com wearing animal furs while going up against a fully armed and armored strike-team is defintely something that does not fit the narrative.

If this was part of an elaborate plan to abduct a contact it might be believable. But X-Com starts out completely exposed, facing off mercenaries and trusting in their bare skin to block bullets (or rockets). X-Com arrives, disembarks and attacks immediately.

At that point, what's even the purpose of wearing the disguise? During beach+winter missions X-Com starts out in buildings - meaning the disguise was necessary to infiltrate said locations. As a result your agents also start out in cover (more or less). Industrial espionage has enemies that are lightly armed, mostly with makeshift weapons due to the setting. Which fits in with X-Com going in unarmored - your agents are - if anything - only slightly outmatched. With this mission there isn't even any explanation in the briefing that something has gone wrong or how that plan was supposed to go off (compare the "meet the informant" mission).

It's not even clear why the disguise is needed in the first place - I guess X-Com sets up the meeting remotely (otherwise they could just nap their contact there and then), drives up in a Van (with tainted windows so no one but the driver would actually need to be in disguise?), gets out and then...demands that the mercenaries submit and get in the van? This is at least missing an explanation as to why, exactely, X-Com is starting off in a shooting gallery, outmatched and with no backup-plan.

All right. So what would be a good way to improve this? Should I scrap the infiltration mechanics entirely? Wouldn't the mission become trivial then? I don't want to boost the enemy team any further, I think it would be inappropriate. Maybe impersonate someone else?

Do other people have similar thoughts?

Is there a cruiser UFOpeadia or research entry? I had never seen one before until a terror mission today

It's broken... Thanks, fixed :)

Do you need to shoot down the cyberweb battleship in order to trigger the mission or can you just wait it out, it's not exactly clear. Because christ is shooting that thing down terrifying to me atm

No need to shoot it down to progress, but it flying around will seriously hurt your reputation.

You need the CEO alive in order to advance the storyline, him dying isn't terrible, another mission will always pop up.

Yeah, they have a steady supply of monstrous CEOs. It's not even a joke!

Offline unarmed drifter

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Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
« Reply #4213 on: May 18, 2021, 05:55:55 pm »
the power of reloads: 3/16 and a live CEO!  8)


All right. So what would be a good way to improve this?
...
Do other people have similar thoughts?

i liked the mission because of the silly outfits, i'm a big fan of the more "campy" moments in the mod (piratez does the same very well).
like krautberndi said, make the the mission like beach/ski ones - unretreatable and let's start around a dumpster fire in one of the derelict buildings.

Offline 8mono

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Re: The X-Com Files - 1.8: The Shores of Hell
« Reply #4214 on: May 19, 2021, 03:47:25 am »
Can I just say how much I love the
Spoiler:
Troop Ship domination
missions? the unique weapons, units that the aliens won't regularly use and the combination of close quarters UFO + open map combat, 
Spoiler:
I really hope to see more special units for the other alien races as well, do you have any further plans for them?

These and the MIB missions are some of my personal favorite parts of the game, rewarding, challenging and fun
« Last Edit: May 19, 2021, 07:30:46 am by 8mono »