Author Topic: Re: The X-Com Files - 1.0.1: Judgement Day  (Read 410962 times)

Offline krautbernd

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
« Reply #2955 on: October 18, 2019, 05:22:29 pm »
Armor is irrelevant for air combat, for Christ's sake... why add pointless limits.
...immersion and exciting gameplay opportunities?  ::)

I mean if armor bonuses do indeed apply to dogfights, why not introduce armors that are specifically tailored to that? Seeing how interceptor pilots normally don't see ground combat, why not give players a selection of flight suits that don't offer much (or any) armor+resistances, but instead come with stat bonuses?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 05:27:36 pm by krautbernd »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
« Reply #2956 on: October 18, 2019, 05:27:06 pm »
...immersion and exciting gameplay opportunities?  ::)

You can roleplay that element, like in an rpg choosing whether your character wears panties or not (assuming panties give no mechanical bonus).
Since armor gives no mechanical bonus in piloting, I see no sense in limiting armor choice.
Having said that, you also speak with ignorance: It is possible to mod it in. You just make a special soldier type "pilot", make his only armor a flightsuit, and disallow anyone else to pilot crafts. I think the 40k mod has it done like that.

That random events whose only outcome is punishing the player by substracting points and which can not be avoided, mitigated and have no further consequences (i.e. they are independant of player action regarding their cause and outcome) are a bad idea.

This is a fallacy, dude. You criticize existence of a strawman (Solar's events having punishing the player as the only consequence or purpose, "author hating your guts" as you put it, I could say, quite antagonizingly), without even KNOWING the events or the lore that is behind them. You can't behave like that. This is some postmodernist critique, "critic vs author" combat; taking your issues with imaginary world (game) into the real world (author). You're not an author. You're a spectator. Deal with it.

Offline krautbernd

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
« Reply #2957 on: October 18, 2019, 05:41:18 pm »
You can roleplay that element, like in an rpg choosing whether your character wears panties or not (assuming panties give no mechanical bonus).
Since armor gives no mechanical bonus in piloting, I see no sense in limiting armor choice.
Having said that, you also speak with ignorance: It is possible to mod it in. You just make a special soldier type "pilot", make his only armor a flightsuit, and disallow anyone else to pilot crafts. I think the 40k mod has it done like that.
See my edit/follow-up. I'm also not saying it's not possible to mod in. I'm asking whether or not it would be a worthwhile addition, seeing that most interceptor pilots see limited if any ground-combat and don't necessarily need power/cyber armor. Why not offer armor that is specifically tailored to pilots? The point is not limiting craft pilots (which is off the table given meridians reply), but to offer alternative armors for different roles.

This is a fallacy, dude. You criticize existence of a strawman (Solar's events having punishing the player as the only consequence or purpose, "author hating your guts" as you put it, I could say, quite antagonizingly), without even KNOWING the events or the lore that is behind them. You can't behave like that. This is some postmodernist critique, "critic vs author" combat; taking your issues with imaginary world (game) into the real world (author). You're not an author. You're a spectator. Deal with it.
I don't know how often I have to point this out, I'm not against random events in general. I outright said - multiple times at this point - that random events can be a worthwile additon. What I'm against is a very specific design of random events. At no point did I say or imply that this is true of all random events. I could turn this whole argument around and accuse you in turn of misrepresenting my argument.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 05:45:50 pm by krautbernd »

Offline TheCurse

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
« Reply #2958 on: October 18, 2019, 05:45:27 pm »
Since armor gives no mechanical bonus in piloting, I see no sense in limiting armor choice.
mechanical bonus does not matter there. but of course a high tech armor could aid the pilot.
have you seen the pilot helmets for F35 pilots? there´s a lot of support tech in there...
e.g. you could have a cyber armor plug into flight control or weapon systems for better reaction time. and fancier HUD  ;)
or have the armor support the pilot at high g maneuvers, since the plane usually could take more stress than the pilot could.
that being said, i´d still favor AI units for piloting advanced fighter crafts.

Offline Ridаn

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
« Reply #2959 on: October 18, 2019, 05:49:15 pm »
Just assume that pilot armor is a part of the craft. Why bother with making Armor that isnt even meant for battlescape, not even mentioning rebalancing dogfights to account for its existence.

Online Meridian

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
« Reply #2960 on: October 18, 2019, 05:53:15 pm »
All pilots wear the same armor during piloting the craft.
By coincidence that armor gives no bonuses, how lucky.

Once on the ground, the pilots put on their combat armor.

Mystery solved. Move on.

Offline krautbernd

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
« Reply #2961 on: October 18, 2019, 05:56:05 pm »
Just assume that pilot armor is a part of the craft. Why bother with making Armor that isnt even meant for battlescape, not even mentioning rebalancing dogfights to account for its existence.
Assuming that armor is part of the craft is what we're doing right now (which doesn't hold up if pilots actually do get into combat wearing fance suits). We also already have niche-use armor that isn't really 'meant' for combat (lab coat, workers disguise etc. example) and more for looking the part. Seeing that armor bonuses will apparently apply going forward, balancing isn't really an argument.

By coincidence that armor gives no bonuses, how lucky.
Didn't you just state that going forward bonuses would apply to dogfights or was the "soldier bonuses"-part referencing something else?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 05:59:46 pm by krautbernd »

Offline Precentor Apollyon

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
« Reply #2962 on: October 18, 2019, 06:14:49 pm »
At no point did I say or imply that this is true of all random events. I could turn this whole argument around and accuse you in turn of misrepresenting my argument.

Or we can all achieve some peace by everyone totally ignoring of his postings. This can bring a measure of serenity in this forum.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 07:02:25 pm by Precentor Apollyon »

Offline Dr.Crowley

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
« Reply #2963 on: October 18, 2019, 07:59:48 pm »
Well, here we go again. I am finally back and have to start yet another new game. Guess I will find a lot of new stuff ;D It is nice to see XCF getting closer to be 100% complete.

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
« Reply #2964 on: October 19, 2019, 09:16:57 am »
Explain me, The Enlightened Ones, what is the reason to use napalm grenade instead incendiary??? I'm still do not understand why we need  Promotion III to use a manufactured grenade with lower damage and lesser radius. ???

Offline JustTheDude

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
« Reply #2965 on: October 19, 2019, 09:32:03 am »
Explain me, The Enlightened Ones, what is the reason to use napalm grenade instead incendiary??? I'm still do not understand why we need  Promotion III to use a manufactured grenade with lower damage and lesser radius. ???

Check the "INFO" menu on Napalm nade. It may cause more morale damage, or something like that. I'm pretty sure it's simillar to "Wille Pete" in XPiratez.

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
« Reply #2966 on: October 19, 2019, 09:37:12 am »
Check the "INFO" menu on Napalm nade. It may cause more morale damage, or something like that. I'm pretty sure it's simillar to "Wille Pete" in XPiratez.

I know, where to check info :P Damage to morale is the same - 1500%. The difference is damage model 50-150%, but that makes no sense, because I'm using mod with TFD damage model.

Offline Ridаn

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
« Reply #2967 on: October 19, 2019, 11:10:54 am »
Explain me, The Enlightened Ones, what is the reason to use napalm grenade instead incendiary??? I'm still do not understand why we need  Promotion III to use a manufactured grenade with lower damage and lesser radius. ???
Most likely one is using vanilla fire damage model (5-10damage ignoring armor), while another does proper listed fire damage on top of that.

Offline krautbernd

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
« Reply #2968 on: October 19, 2019, 11:43:22 am »
I know, where to check info :P Damage to morale is the same - 1500%. The difference is damage model 50-150%, but that makes no sense, because I'm using mod with TFD damage model.
Why wouldn't it make sense, seeing how the mod uses the normal damage model? Of course things are going to be messed up when you use damage mods on top of that  ;)
But yeah, as far as I can tell the difference between the two grenades is the damage model (or rather the overall damage dealt) and the blast radius. Apparently the napalm grande can also totally incinerate a unit if it deals enough damage (IgnoreOverKill: false), but I don't think I've ever seen that happen.

BTW, last I checked the napalm grenade was buyable after reaching promotion III (I think) and the explosives license.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 11:48:51 am by krautbernd »

Offline Alex_D

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.9.9e2: Summertime Lovin'
« Reply #2969 on: October 19, 2019, 04:05:22 pm »
All pilots wear the same armor during piloting the craft.
By coincidence that armor gives no bonuses, how lucky.

Once on the ground, the pilots put on their combat armor.

Mystery solved. Move on.

Love it  :D