Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin

[Solarius Scorch]

Helmet, if I followed your expertise, civilians would already be driving around in tanks.

Of course balance is a part of this... But another purpose is to avoid ridiculous situations where a (essentially) police detective pulls out an RPG and blows something up. This isn't Mission Impossible, people., You want to do this stuff, you become soldiers first.

[tkzv]

(But maybe the flamethrower can...?)

Flare pistols are not a weapon, technically. I see no reason for a civilian to carry one in a city, but hunters or tourists in the wilderness may have one.

By the way, there's such thing as a two-barrel flare pistols, though they are relatively rare. http://www.ima-usa.com/original-german-wwii-luftwaffe-double-barrel-flare-pistol-by-krieghoff-dated-1943.html More barrels make it more complex and heavy and didn't catch on.

[mumble]

If you want RPG's n stuff, raid store houses and you might get some.

Actually, this gives me an idea for a mission solair, what about a munitions outpost assault for exalt or red dawn? like a mission which has a chance to have high rank officers of course, but also has LOTS of neat guns normally ranked for promotion 3 and such, but on the other hand, lots of enemies armed to the TEETH with such weapons. I would certainly consider a rough mission which only had value in getting good weapons and ammo, even if it was very dangerous.

Kinda like a very high risk, very high reward situation, where its a near death sentence attacking it, but if you DO, you end up with lots of weapons which conveniently the council doesn't mind you using. Like a few high explosives, a few RPGs, heavy machine gun type weapons, and other equipment. Could make it a similar experience to raiding a UFO on promotion 1 (I have done this actually, with hunting rifles, shotguns and pistols) where its an extremely dangerous, and almost foolish idea, but has IMMENSE rewards to doing so.

I personally love this kind of game-play, but I admit its a little silly that the council won't let you BUY an RPG, but is completely ok with you bringing in an RPG to a city to fight monsters or something. I kinda wonder if maybe RPG's / grenade launchers should be behind a research lock to use, for "liabilities",  before xcoms lawyers can justify it with the explosives license. Sure, theres no authority to PURCHASE an RPG, but the license still """"technically""""" covers RPG rounds.

[Solarius Scorch]

Actually, this gives me an idea for a mission solair, what about a munitions outpost assault for exalt or red dawn? like a mission which has a chance to have high rank officers of course, but also has LOTS of neat guns normally ranked for promotion 3 and such, but on the other hand, lots of enemies armed to the TEETH with such weapons. I would certainly consider a rough mission which only had value in getting good weapons and ammo, even if it was very dangerous.

Hmm, that would be something like the Siberia. Why not, but right now I prefer to work on new stuff, instead of adding new iterations to starting factions. With time, sure.

I personally love this kind of game-play, but I admit its a little silly that the council won't let you BUY an RPG, but is completely ok with you bringing in an RPG to a city to fight monsters or something.

Well... you haven't bought it, right?

I kinda wonder if maybe RPG's / grenade launchers should be behind a research lock to use, for "liabilities",  before xcoms lawyers can justify it with the explosives license. Sure, theres no authority to PURCHASE an RPG, but the license still """"technically""""" covers RPG rounds.

Nah, too much trouble.

[mumble]

I guess you didn't buy the RPG yeah

I suppose I wish there was a means to qualtifiy severity of colateral damage, I have a habit of blowing up industrial zones filled with barrels, and am always amused that despite demolition an entire city block as a 2 bit police organization, nobody cares.

I suppose damage would, over time end up being ignored for more severe circumstances, but I think the council would have a word if you blew up  and entire city block to catch 1 gang banger 

unsure if this is even remotely possible, but it would be neat, at least for inner cities or other places, I figure blowing up an entire apartment complex would make a little bit of headlines.

[SteamXCOM]

I suppose I wish there was a means to qualtifiy severity of colateral damage, I have a habit of blowing up industrial zones filled with barrels, and am always amused that despite demolition an entire city block as a 2 bit police organization, nobody cares.

I made a suggestion in the other forum about property damage. Maybe for certain tiles destroyed by XCOMERS a certain  assessment should subtracted from the score.   
Even if the aliens are defeated in that battle, if  the city block or even farm is leveled, there are going to be some very unhappy people. 

The negative score for that might be offset by reparation payments or sometime to that effect.

For terror missions at least I would think the rocket tank would NOT be welcome by the populance.
But yes, it is so much FUN blowing things up..

[mumble]

problem with it is scaling : you couldn't do 1 point per tile, or else a grenade going off would cost a fortune, and some damage is indeed inevitable in many cases : I figure maybe somewhere between 3 - .25 points per tile damage would be interesting. Not only that, but how would you scale it with other situations

Either way, its not coded, but would be cool : I'm sure glad the missle racks inside cult houses aren't on public property, or I'd constantly be in the hole quite a few points for nuking a house 

Anyway, more ontopic, can the blackops SMG get an aimed shot like the minebae smg? I know the minebae is technically a classified gun from the old kiryukai, but I figure blackops could incorporate such techniques anyway, being as powerful as they are. Even if its just a marginal 10% increase in aim, it would be interesting.

[tkzv]

I made a suggestion in the other forum about property damage. Maybe for certain tiles destroyed by XCOMERS a certain  assessment should subtracted from the score.   
Even if the aliens are defeated in that battle, if  the city block or even farm is leveled, there are going to be some very unhappy people. 

The negative score for that might be offset by reparation payments or sometime to that effect.

For terror missions at least I would think the rocket tank would NOT be welcome by the populance.
But yes, it is so much FUN blowing things up..

There should also be positive score for property damage if X-COM retreated from the enemy base Of course, it should be only a percentage of the bonus for capturing the base and burning it to the ground.

[mumble]

See, that I disagree with in MOST cases. Blowing up an enemy factions house doesn't do much good if everyone survives, and certainly blowing a hole in their wall does nothing objective wise. At best you would cost them a few thousand dollars trying to board up the hole, and irritate their management, but its not arrests, its not killing them and thinning their numbers, and its not a seizure of funds / equipment. Besides that, except for literally blowing up the entire house, the cost would be negligible to the faction.

Beyond that, I assume if you have mission success that the local authorities would seize the property ANYWAY, and seizing a property which had been nuked obviously wouldn't win you more points : I figure its too complex to quantify in all these scenarios.

[Lohland]

I suppose I wish there was a means to qualtifiy severity of colateral damage,

X-COM3 Apocalypse? No thanks.

[mumble]

You know, some of the magma guns seem heavy for the sake of being heavy, namely the thrasher shotgun : its basically a giant double barrel shotgun, yet its over 30 weight! I figure it being 20 would be incredibly fare, considering its a break action, and that the light cannon out performs it in many aspects, except accuracy...and why is the light cannon so innacurate? I figure it would be more accurate than a heavy cannon, at very least for snap shot since its lighter weight is easier to manipulate, and its a CANNON, so an aimed shot should be pretty respectable. I know there is concerns over red dawn using it, but they rarely have it, and I've yet to lose anybody to cannon fire, so this might not be a bad thing, making it more accurate

But certainly, lower the weight of the thrasher to like, 20 : the weight of the ammo alone makes it very hard to carry, trust me, considering its a double barrel : this means if you want 10 shots, you have to set aside 20 weight for it to begin with, where as right not its almost unmanageable even with my biggest dudes.

[tkzv]

X-COM3 Apocalypse? No thanks.

Tastes differ. I think it was a good idea. Still, the penalty for property damage should be far below penalty for killed civilians, which is how much? -10 for each?

[mumble]

is it me, or are zombies STUPIDLY explsovie resistant? I can understand them being bullet, resistant, even melee resistant, as they have no real vital points, but I figure a satchel of TNT would be more than enough to destroy any zombie by the megazombies : I really think their explosive resistance should be lowered, would certainly make the magma zombie mission a lot easier

remember, these things aren't much different from humans despite strength, and don't exactly have armor or anything, they hardly have clothes : a tnt charge or landmine under their feet should put them out of commission.

I can even understand the argument of FRAG grenades having less effects, since fragments aren't as thorough, but a tnt charge right under you would turn you into paste, and I doubt being a zombie would magically make the zombie not paste.

Besides, zombies are bullet spongey enough as is, and flamethowers aren't availible till later on : let met have some sort of means to reliably kill them : even if the zombie troopers are more resistant, thats fine, but surely zombie infectors shouldn't be able to take a tnt and grenade right under them and still walk.

[SteamXCOM]

Tastes differ. I think it was a good idea. Still, the penalty for property damage should be far below penalty for killed civilians, which is how much? -10 for each?

Yes, I seem to recall a penalty for XCOMers killing civilians

-10 per civilian killed, is that a moddable value?
If so where can it be found?
Certainly gives incentive to leave the rocket tank at home if changed to a higher value.

I saw civilians worth  30 there in the UNITS.RUL but not whatever controls the score charts

and in the alienDeploynments.RUL  there is

    civilians: 16  #number of civilians that are on the map, change to higher for more
    despawnPenalty: 1000 #penalty to score if the site despawns without xcom reaction

[Lohland]

Tastes differ. I think it was a good idea. Still, the penalty for property damage should be far below penalty for killed civilians, which is how much? -10 for each?

Can be made optional, whoever wants - can include.