Author Topic: The X-Com Files - 1.3: Sanity Check  (Read 505441 times)

Offline LuigiWhatif

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
« Reply #1230 on: May 18, 2017, 07:50:53 am »
How do I progress in the TFTD research?  I can't research the zrbite tank I have, and it seems that disassembling it into raw zrbite requires me to research zrbite first.  Is there another mission past luring the aquatoid ship that I haven't triggered?  I haven't done any research that looked like it would trigger new missions.

Offline mumble

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
« Reply #1231 on: May 19, 2017, 02:10:00 am »
Honestly the Close quarters combat thing, while interesting, seems poorly balanced : the fact a farmer can make me miss when I taze him in the back out of his sight seems ridiculous. I really wish this also took into account reactions, as I figure this would take more reactions than melee skill, and perhaps even stength.

Pistols also seem like they should have a buff on this : pistols are short, one handed, and designed for close engagements, so I figure it would do better than say, a rifle or mp5. I also kinda wish really good rolls could either make the person drop the gun, or very, very rarely, make them shoot them-self (that's possible right?)

Anyway, its not a bad mod, and certainly adds flavor, but balancing for it certainly needs a bit of work.

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
« Reply #1232 on: May 19, 2017, 03:03:30 am »
The shooter's reactions are taken into account, the roll is compared to (gun cqb accuracy) × (melee / 2 + reactions / 2) - (defender's melee dodge [which is usually based on reactions]).  The likely problem is gun accuracies set too low, and I know Solarius is taking a look at bumping those up for this reason.  Shooting yourself isn't possible, unless it's an explosive round, and I think dropping the gun is too much of a penalty and could be exploited to disarm the AI.

Offline mumble

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
« Reply #1233 on: May 19, 2017, 07:29:57 am »
You completely sure?... I swear to god one time I saw a alien hybrid in FMP shoot himself in the face with an AK47 when he was completely surrounded, outnumbered, outgunned, and outclassed

...you telling me that awesome memory was something else?

But you have a good point about exploiting : I was thinking ONLY for a very high scoring roll difference, like say, 40 plus over

And on a side note, I know you were hesitant to give it a TU cost : how about an energy cost?

I could see it working that way, where instinctively grabbing the gun at that range doesn't REALLY take much mental processing (TU's) but would use up energy in a frantic melee attempting to push the gun away. This way the feature is accessible, but not completely infinite in usage.

Regardless, gotta say I really like this : it shakes things up, making new hairy scenarios, and also giving melee weapons more of a niche than before, which I can appreciate, considering I never used the baseball bat...but now having someone raid a room with a bat is actually reasonable idea.   :D

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
« Reply #1234 on: May 19, 2017, 10:07:44 am »
Sorry for not responding earlier, I have a very busy week.

Zrbite... Sorry, can't remember exactly, and I can't check right now. Have you tried the tech viewer?

CQC will be toned down, as indeed it is too powerful. Thankfully it's just one variable.

Offline LuigiWhatif

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
« Reply #1235 on: May 19, 2017, 10:28:04 am »
I looked at the tech viewer, that's where I saw what I needed.  Pictures included, with the assumption that STR_ITEM_DESTROYED means I have to have one of the item in question to analyze.  So far I've only gotten zrbite tanks, so does that mean there's a mission that spawns individual zrbite that I haven't seen yet?  I'm eager to get this finished, since the Ironfist is down the line and a bigger transport would be really nice.

Offline mumble

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
« Reply #1236 on: May 20, 2017, 06:57:02 am »
It seems the other varieties of LMGs seem to be completely outclassed by the blackops LMG by the time you encounter them : maybe the LMG should be a later item, or LMGs of some sort should be introduced earlier, perhaps very rarely with church of dagon / Red dawn. Particularly with red dawn, the green box LMG (spacing on the name) was used during the warsaw pact, and I think wouldn't be TOO hard to get their hands on, considering they have AK47s everywhere. Even if they were only singular units per mission, it would be useful :infact, it might be an interesting fit for the black lotus footman, since besides the witch, and ninja, the black lutus is a bunch of pushovers I feel. I mainly want the LMGs there so it applies to the general rule where you can unreliably, and early get good guns, before you can buy them, but this never applies to LMGS because by the time I see them, I always have blackops industries tech. At least the PKM, or FN whatever it is, would be good earlier on, particularly as an option for  Red dawn, possibly black lotus, or even exalt, as a rare issuance to mid ranks : this way assault guns could be something one could store away for a "rainy day" so to speak.

The MAC10 sound is REALLY dinky for a 45 calibur SMG. Frankly, so is the blackops LMG...consider sound changes? Maybe making it the same as the tommygun, considering its the same calibur and damage, right?


Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
« Reply #1237 on: May 20, 2017, 03:01:51 pm »
Regarding Zrbite: yeah, it's a bug. To research Zrbite, you must first have Zrbite, which comes from Zrbite Tanks, but to extract Zrbite from the tank you must have the Zrbite tech...
Fixing.

The PKM is relatively easy to find. Certainly easier than the Blackops one. But maybe I misunderstood something?

The sound... Maybe I'll change it. I got to finally sit down and mod something. :P
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 03:04:59 pm by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Gordonmull

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
« Reply #1238 on: May 20, 2017, 09:02:16 pm »
Just had my first CQB moments. Really jarring. I went in with 2 agents against one Dagon supporter and we were opened up on from a two story building We quickly moved in as a team to nail the perp. My sergeant got slain with a knife. At this point my rookie should have been able to take the suspect down. Nope. She turned and shot the wall then did that again two more times and I'm left thinking, "WTF? That's not a fair game!" Then she took a few shots to the face on the alien turn and team was lost.

Can't say I'm a fan of this development. Loving everything else but this just doesn't feel right. Honestly not sure whether to revert back to an earlier version because that was just so visually horrible to watch.

Anyroad, had to give the feedback, I'd rather it was more positive!

Offline Meridian

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
« Reply #1239 on: May 20, 2017, 09:26:33 pm »
Can't say I'm a fan of this development. Loving everything else but this just doesn't feel right. Honestly not sure whether to revert back to an earlier version because that was just so visually horrible to watch.

Yeah, it's super-annoying to play against and super-OP to play with.

Once you can't stand it anymore, just find this "enableCloseQuartersCombat: 1" in the ruleset and change 1 to 0 to disable the whole thing.

Offline Gordonmull

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
« Reply #1240 on: May 20, 2017, 09:45:05 pm »
Yeah, it's super-annoying to play against and super-OP to play with.

Once you can't stand it anymore, just find this "enableCloseQuartersCombat: 1" in the ruleset and change 1 to 0 to disable the whole thing.

Thanks, Meridian :D Much appreciated.

Offline mumble

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
« Reply #1241 on: May 20, 2017, 10:18:10 pm »
The PKM is relatively easy to find. Certainly easier than the Blackops one. But maybe I misunderstood something?
I mean that, by the time I EVER find a PKM, or any other heavy machine gun variety, I already have blackops industries unlocked, and in turn, the blackops assault LMG, which is better than the PKM, FN MININ (or whatever) and pretty much all other options. Comparatively, I can get the AK47,  grenades, rpg, and other weapons LONG before I can legally purchase the equivilants, and it functions as a nice "rainy day" dynamic, where sure, you HAVE an rpg, but its only 1 : you might want to save it, make it count...but this never applies to the pkm in my several playthroughs. Infact this has been my FAVORITE dynamic of say piratez, and to a lesser extent, this game : that I can get an AK, and a few clips, and use it for a risky mission long before they can be purchased. I only wish this applied to the LMG's

So its not exactly commonality, its that by the time it IS common the blackops assault LMG is ALSO common, and is 100% superior...which kinda goes against the dynamic of you being under-gunned, but taking the better guns of your enemies to use.

As for CQC, I admit its broken in its CURRENT form, but I feel this can be salvaged, and made cool : it just needs its numbers adjusted quite a bit. Currently any unit who isn't a paraplegic can fend off a pistol shot point blank, and its a rediculous, but the intent was for SKILLED people being able to, or rookies being easy to fend off : the skill check is very one sided right now, so yes, its kinda messed up.

I figure for CQC, the following things should be added

1 : make it exponentially harder to counter, the more you are flanked. It should be ALMOST impossible to counter from behind
2 : balance numbers out, so reactions and melee are more important. Perhaps make a skill floor for countering an attack, so complete rookies don't have the luxery, unless naturally skilled
3 : make countering consume a bit of energy : TU' consumption was talked about, but seems too much of a pain to micro, but I think energy consumption would be extremely fair, and would make sense. It would also keep it from being abusable. Maybe also make it consume morale from sheer stress : so abusing it is also less possible unless someone has some serious brass on them. Maybe even checks for other stats as well?
4 : provide a buff for pistols against CQC, a nerf against rifles and long guns. I figure anyone could wrestle away a rifle at close range if quick enough, but a pistol or SMG would be far more difficult. Perhaps also track what kind of gun the attacker / defender are using, and consider those into play : I figure a pistol and knife weilding agent, even with mediocre skill, would do better than say, a ninja who was somehow carrying 2 long guns. Having lighter weight in hands, and particularly if one has free hands, melee weapons, or bulky guns should all play parts in this, rather than just a check for melee and reactions : Because I refuse to believe I can carry 2 MP5s, and be just as effective as bare handed at fending off point blank shots.
5 : perhaps make CARRYING a melee weapon in hand give a small boost to CQC skills. I would feel more confident fending off a gun attack close range with a combat knife or club, or something, and it gives you an extension of your grip to better move the gun away from you.

I'm not sure how much any of this already exist, but I figure this COULD be an awesome feature IF it is balanced first. It seems like a neat idea, but with the numbers being massive shots in the dark.

Oh, and dogs really should be made standard issue I think : It makes no sense them behind medicine, and they are the best if you get them EARLY, to train them on easier missions. Or at least make them match something which makes sense, like logistics maybe, because dogs have nothing to do with medicine, do they?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 07:09:14 am by mumble »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
« Reply #1242 on: May 21, 2017, 12:08:40 pm »
The CQC has been overhauled... It should be more realistic now. Tests are underway.

Offline mumble

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
« Reply #1243 on: May 21, 2017, 08:42:26 pm »
Make sure to detail what was balanced in the changelog, so we can examine exactly what happened : that is, once you update it : I'm eager to see how it was changed.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: The X-Com Files - 0.6.4 alpha: Up Close and Personal
« Reply #1244 on: May 21, 2017, 09:16:57 pm »
Make sure to detail what was balanced in the changelog, so we can examine exactly what happened : that is, once you update it : I'm eager to see how it was changed.

It's simple: all weapons have their accuracyCloseQuarters stat increased by 1.25.