Author Topic: Can soldiers still be "overtrained"?  (Read 3045 times)

Offline sh4dow

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Can soldiers still be "overtrained"?
« on: February 08, 2016, 04:02:01 pm »
I just looked into OpenXcom for the first time and this is something I didn't come across in either in the known bugs, nor the between OpenXcom and the original.

Yet, I distinctly remember than when a soldier was trained enough and an attribute would've gone over 255, it would start again at 0.
And I think it usually happened with TU, meaning you basically couldn't move with that soldier any more.

I assume that this has been fixed but since - like I said - it's not pointed out anywhere, I figured I'd still ask before invest time into buying/installing and whatnot.

Online Meridian

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Re: Can soldiers still be "overtrained"?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2016, 04:09:59 pm »
No, soldiers cannot be overtrained.
There are (configurable/moddable) stat caps, which prevent this.

PS: For completeness, I think it may happen in some special cases, that you get overtrained by a few points (e.g. if cap=100, you may get to 101 or 102 or so), but definitely not over 255. And maybe even this was fixed in the meantime.

Offline yrizoud

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Re: Can soldiers still be "overtrained"?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2016, 04:18:10 pm »
Strictly speaking, such issues could maybe arise, but not before 2000 millions (assuming signed 32bit ints).

Offline sh4dow

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Re: Can soldiers still be "overtrained"?
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2016, 04:32:19 pm »
These two replies are conflicting unless I'm missing something. ;)

Meridian says by default the stats are capped, yrizoud says by default they essentially aren't (due to the stats not being saved in byte variables any more but 32bit ints).

Both are acceptable solutions, although I would prefer the latter, as I see nothing bad in training a character so much that he has 500 TUs. ;)
So do I have to mod something to get that or is it like that out of the box?

Online Meridian

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Re: Can soldiers still be "overtrained"?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2016, 04:36:52 pm »
You can find the stat caps here (out of the box): https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/blob/master/bin/standard/xcom1/soldiers.rul

A small mod (5 minutes of work) can change them to anything else you'd like.

Offline sh4dow

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Re: Can soldiers still be "overtrained"?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2016, 04:49:07 pm »
Whoa... only a cap of 80 for TU? Did people working on OpenXcom come up with that or was that already in some patch that maybe the version I played almost 20 years ago didn't have...

Anyway, thanks for showing me that!!

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Can soldiers still be "overtrained"?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2016, 04:53:04 pm »
There's a 'little' problem with setting stat caps really high in OXC; a post-mission secondary stat (Strength, TUs, Stamina, Health) increase is based on how good a soldier is compared to maximum (the better he is, the less he receives). So moving caps into ridiculous territory also means you will have supersoldiers in a course of few missions.

All stat caps in OXCom are based on (non-bugged) vanilla X-Com. No need to slander the devs. The 'overtraining' bug was rare AFAIR, mostly found on pirated copies.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 04:55:02 pm by Dioxine »

Offline sh4dow

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Re: Can soldiers still be "overtrained"?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2016, 04:57:00 pm »
Slander? Are you talking about me? And which devs? Those of the original game or OpenXcom?
At any rate... I don't see what's slanderous about my statements. Overflow-related bugs were somewhat common back then.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Can soldiers still be "overtrained"?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2016, 05:06:58 pm »
Right, I was being unclear. I was refering to where you suggested that OXC devs pulled that 80 TUs cap out of their behinds.

Offline yrizoud

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Re: Can soldiers still be "overtrained"?
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2016, 05:47:39 pm »
According to Ufopedia (article on TU)
Older versions of X-COM did not have a cap and stats could reach 255 and then wrap back to 0

I didn't mean to contradict Meridian, these issues will happen only if you choose to mod the gameplay limits well beyond what the coders expected.
Even some reasonable mods have run into issues, such as when somebody tried mod realistic prices (aircrafts : +++), XCOM budget was well into the billion $, and some computations made in 32bit ints overflow.

Offline sh4dow

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Re: Can soldiers still be "overtrained"?
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2016, 06:01:59 pm »
Right, I was being unclear. I was refering to where you suggested that OXC devs pulled that 80 TUs cap out of their behinds.

... gotta love forums these days.

I'd ask you to apologize for accusing me of slander and piracy (which ironically is a lot closer to slander) as well as mischaracterizing what I wrote. Because since when is a question whether someone came up with something an accusation of "pulling something out of one's behind"?! Even IF they had come up with that number there might have been a good reason for it. Like a bug in the original game and the intended value actually being 80.

But... why bother. I'll be off then. And feel lucky that there was enough constructive content in this thread to clarify all that I needed to know. Thanks again for the help and explanations.

Offline Warboy1982

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Re: Can soldiers still be "overtrained"?
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2016, 09:11:45 pm »
yeah i kinda have to echo sh4dow's sentiment here. i don't feel slandered, and the unwelcoming attitude is really uncalled for. this was a simple question about game mechanics that turned into a witch hunt. Dioxine, that was out of line, and i don't think you know what you're talking about, "mostly found on pirated copies"... who's behind did you pull that out of?

seriously, i am ashamed and disappointed to see people treated this way on our forums.

for what it's worth, sh4dow, i'm sorry for the unwarranted and disrespectful manner in which you have been treated.

Offline Yankes

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Re: Can soldiers still be "overtrained"?
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2016, 11:08:52 pm »
Answer is simple, in Poland in beginning of 90s 99% of soft was pirated (and if you want buy something it was pirated version too). Probably similar in other Eastern Europe countries.
On top of that most of this games was modified or corrupted. I could say that could be even personal experiences of Dioxine,
at least I played games that don't work exactly as creators intended.

Offline Warboy1982

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Re: Can soldiers still be "overtrained"?
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2016, 12:35:16 am »
that still doesn't justify that kind of response.
vanilla 1.0 didn't cap the skills properly. if you install from the original floppies it will exhibit the same problem, and patching a game 20 years ago was a lot harder for those without internet access (which was most of us).
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 12:56:31 am by Warboy1982 »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Can soldiers still be "overtrained"?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2016, 10:17:55 am »
Yes, my first copy (pirated, because how else? 1990s Eastern Europe, it wasn't illegal at the time and place) of the game had the very same bug, but later versions were fixed. Accusing of piracy? Come on. I'm not trying to witch-hunt anyone, if it came out as such, I'm sorry.