Author Topic: throwing experience for weapons which rely on throwing skill  (Read 8018 times)

Offline eisenefaust

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Re: throwing experience for weapons which rely on throwing skill
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2016, 11:03:02 pm »
Awesome! That sounds great Yankes!

Offline Yankes

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Re: throwing experience for weapons which rely on throwing skill
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2016, 11:49:12 pm »
Awesome! That sounds great Yankes!
That was only possible solution and is bit long way to made it working :) It always possible that something will go wrong and every thing will be pointless.

Offline sambojin

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Re: throwing experience for weapons which rely on throwing skill
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2016, 03:50:36 am »
Just throwing in something. Arcing weapons and explosive weapons may not be a good criteria for extracurricular throwing training.

Assault Cannons w/Expl. Cannonballs do exist.

They're cheap, they arc, they explode. They're pretty accurate. They're early game weapons which entirely replace grenade launchers, and most other things of that nature. Cheap and light ammo too, that is quick to manufacture. They last all campaign as perfect hand-me-downs, but are also good for experienced gals.

I'm fine if the intention is for one of the best workhorse weapons in the game to *also* train throwing, but I don't think that's the case. But it could be.

Every noob with 20+ str can get one and two reloads with runt duds on, and maybe a backup bow (or set of fuso knives) if they're strong enough, until they're worthy. Or if they're awesome anyway.

Flamers arc too, and have a blast radius. A Gym Suit or Bikini and they're great. Another perfect workhorse weapon, for noobs and bosses alike. But for training other skills too? 8 potential hits a shot, and most things require a few direct hits to go down. Would synergize perfectly with bows too, even with an accuracy drop for two-handed.

They'll get some hits, some kills, and will now also train throwing. Intended?

Not a biggy, because they already get hits or kills with these weapons. It just gives them an extra skill to tick upwards. Probably for their backup weapon anyway (aside from a cattle-prod). But they're belt, QD or offhand weapons, with essentially unlimited ammo, that come on pretty early and are cheap as well. Knives for cannoneers, bows for cooks.

I can see a couple of "perfect warrior" builds coming out of this, if the above weapons train throwing as well. Add a backpack prod after strength gets high enough and there's nothing you can't try to do with these gals.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 04:35:49 am by sambojin »

Online Meridian

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Re: throwing experience for weapons which rely on throwing skill
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2016, 08:58:28 am »
They are not training throwing "as well", but "instead of" firing. Btw. until now you could train throwing just by throwing anything anywhere, so with this change, it is certainly harder to train throwing. And it will become even harder once I finish complete rework of training system configuration.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: throwing experience for weapons which rely on throwing skill
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2016, 11:26:06 am »
I think the praise levelled at Assault Cannon is overt, the Grenade Launcher is a better weapon in every aspect (well it doesn't have the Balls of Steel, but who uses them), and the ammo for it is only like, twice or thrice more expensive. Once you get to Elerium Explosives, it becomes devastating with HE 90 grenades. If someone wanted to spam an arcing weapon, he'd use that. Or even better... Flamethrower, with 8 shots per attack (10 with Heavy)? Man.

What do you think about flamethrowers Meridian? Won't they train Throwing at an insane speed? Maybe arcing autoshot should count as a single attack for throwing training? Or maybe arcing weapons below arbitrary 30% accuracy shouldn't train anything at all?

Unless you're making a more advanced system already :)
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 11:28:11 am by Dioxine »

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Re: throwing experience for weapons which rely on throwing skill
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2016, 01:38:45 pm »
Unless you're making a more advanced system already :)

I am making it right now... and I am being quite successful.
Still many hours of testing in front of me though.

I am at a point where also points 1/2/3 work as you suggested, i.e. only when grenades actually hit.

Now I am adding a possibility to override the algorithm-based training with a custom training (per weapon)... and no, the "formula" will not be freely definable by ruleset, you will only have (more than enough) options to choose from (see spoiler, feel free to propose other options, I promise to consider them :) ):

Spoiler:
0 default algorithm -- if nothing is specified

1 train melee
2 train melee 50% chance
3 train melee 33% chance

4 train firing
5 train firing 50% chance
6 train firing 33% chance

7 train throwing
8 train throwing 50% chance
9 train throwing 33% chance

10 train firing and throwing
11 train firing or throwing (coinflip)

12 train reactions
13 train reactions and melee
14 train reactions and firing
15 train reactions and throwing
16 train reactions or melee (coinflip)
17 train reactions or firing (coinflip)
18 train reactions or throwing (coinflip)

19 train bravery
20 train bravery x2

21 train bravery and reactions
22 train bravery or reactions (coinflip)
23 train bravery or reactions (coinflip) x2

24 train psi strength
25 train psi strength x2

26 train psi skill
27 train psi skill x2

28 train psi strength and psi skill
29 train psi strength and psi skill x2

30 train psi strength or psi skill (coinflip)
31 train psi strength or psi skill (coinflip) x2

32 train nothing
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 05:59:34 pm by Meridian »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: throwing experience for weapons which rely on throwing skill
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2016, 01:53:51 pm »
Looks like there are indeed more than enough override options. I just hope the basic formula will be good enough to skip overriding for most cases :)
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 01:55:32 pm by Dioxine »

Offline Yankes

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Re: throwing experience for weapons which rely on throwing skill
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2016, 02:35:58 pm »
I am making it right now... and I am being quite successful.
Still many hours of testing in front of me though.

I am at a point where also points 1/2/3 work as you suggested, i.e. only when grenades actually hit.

Now I am adding a possibility to override the algorithm-based training with a custom training (per weapon)... and no, the "formula" will not be freely definable by ruleset, you will only have (more than enough) options to choose from (see spoiler, feel free to propose other options, I promise to consider them :) ):

This look good, probably best balance between customization and simplicity. I will probably steal this functionality to my branch :)

Online Meridian

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Re: throwing experience for weapons which rely on throwing skill
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2016, 09:29:17 pm »
This look good, probably best balance between customization and simplicity. I will probably steal this functionality to my branch :)

Hope my code won't be too bad, I haven't touched C++ since 2001 or so, with very small exceptions.
Commits:
- default algorithm: https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/commit/43053e2e78e00718adc709010ef865e056ec71c3
- overrides: https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/commit/98670473a90f8ea3121989930fbd26fe13e47027

Anyway, totally exhausted, after 20 hours (1 hour development + 19 hours testing), here's the result: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4230.0.html

PS: big thanks to Dioxine for extracting the weapon pack for me... without it, it would take at least 5x longer

Offline Dioxine

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Re: throwing experience for weapons which rely on throwing skill
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2016, 09:43:38 pm »
Looks awesome. I will put it to tests immediately when I can look upon this game again (0.97C developement was hectic and I need a break myself).