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Author Topic: Moving base facilities  (Read 3528 times)

Offline Meridian

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Moving base facilities
« on: January 17, 2016, 05:59:57 pm »
Hi all,

it looks like I'll be facing base defense missions twice a month (or more) and my starting base looks like sh*t.
For example stores right next to the access lift... so that the enemy can easily blow up half of my stuff of course (already lost 4 out of 5 encrypted data discs in the last mission).

I will work on optional feature to move base facilities today and would like to ask about the "appropriate" cost of the operation.

My idea is:
- build time = 0 (zero), i.e. instant moving
- cost = size of the facility * monthly maintenance * distance moved; rounded down to hundreds

Examples:
Moving hangar (maintenance = 25k) from position [0,0] to position [4,2] would cost: 2 * 25k * sqrt((4-0)^2+(4-2)^2) = 2 * 25k * 4.472 = 223.6k (i.e. more than a new hangar :) over longer distances)
Moving vaults (maintenance = 2.5k) from position [2,2] to position [5,2] would cost: 1 * 2.5k * 3 = 7.5k
Moving laboratory by one square: 75k
etc.

Comments welcome.

Offline Bloax

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Re: Moving base facilities
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2016, 06:11:04 pm »
The instant time sounds very gamey (clearly MORE options inbound), but otherwise it sounds good.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Moving base facilities
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2016, 06:22:36 pm »
My proposition:
Let's think about it the materialistic way. Instant digging is obviously an impossibility, which cannot be skipped no matter how much cash you have, but costs can be saved. As the benchmark, we have the mostly empty Corridor facility, which conveniently appeared in 0.97c. It costs 75k and 6 days to build. Let's bump that up to 100k due to material losses. As for the time, add, let's say, 2 days required to move everything.
So, realistically, moving a facility should cost like, 100k per tile (distance can be omitted, bases aren't that big) and 8 days per tile.
So:
- Moving 1x1: 100k, 8 days
- Moving 2x2: 400k, 32 days
- Moving 3x3: 900k, 72 days
If we add extra time efficiecy for large construction efforts, say, 2/3 time for 2x2 and half time for 3x3:
- Moving 2x2: 400k, 21 days
- Moving 3x3: 900k, 36 days

There could be an additional conditional that the cost and time cannot be higher than, say, 80% original cost and time of a new facility, and if they are, they're dropped to these values.

What's more, the vacated space shouldn't be empty, but replaced by Corridors (which can be demolished), but this is just addendum and probably makes no sense as it is limited to Piratez.

As an alternative, simpler system, I propose the option of getting some cash back from demolition, say, 2/3 of the original cost or original cost -50k, whichever is lower.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 06:32:14 pm by Dioxine »

Offline Meridian

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Re: Moving base facilities
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2016, 07:02:53 pm »
The instant time sounds very gamey (clearly MORE options inbound), but otherwise it sounds good.

Well, it's not like you can abuse it for anything, can you?

My proposition:
Let's think about it the materialistic way. Instant digging is obviously an impossibility, ...

I was thinking more:
1. either all the place is already there (like in my base now, there is nowhere else to dig),
2. or you cannot move from [0,0] to [5,5] anyway in a new base because it will not connect
...so realistically, in most of the cases you will not dig anything new.

And even if you did... you say 6 days for a corridor?
So it was like 2 days to dig a 1x1 place and 4 days to actually build walls, install electricity, water, security cameras, intercom, etc. (or 1 day dig and 5 days building)?

When moving you don't need to do all the engineering again, just move.
And if you accidentally move to a spot, which wasn't ever used before, well, you'll eventually pay for that digging ("again") too when building new facilities on the old place, which was magically "undug".

And if it still bothers anyone... let's not even allow to move facilities at all... only allow to switch places of two already existing facilities... that doesn't require any digging, right? You just move people, pack your stuff, move furniture and machinery, unpack stuff and voilĂ . And that's all I need... surely doable in a single day.

...which cannot be skipped no matter how much cash you have, but costs can be saved. As the benchmark, we have the mostly empty Corridor facility, which conveniently appeared in 0.97c. It costs 75k and 6 days to build. Let's bump that up to 100k due to material losses. As for the time, add, let's say, 2 days required to move everything.
So, realistically, moving a facility should cost like, 100k per tile (distance can be omitted, bases aren't that big) and 8 days per tile.
So:
- Moving 1x1: 100k, 8 days
- Moving 2x2: 400k, 32 days
- Moving 3x3: 900k, 72 days
If we add extra time efficiecy for large construction efforts, say, 2/3 time for 2x2 and half time for 3x3:
- Moving 2x2: 400k, 21 days
- Moving 3x3: 900k, 36 days

What's more, the vacated space shouldn't be empty, but replaced by Corridors (which can be demolished), but this is just addendum and probably makes no sense as it is limited to Piratez.

I like the cost per tile regardless of distance, and 100k seems somehow OK (and as bonus it is easy to remember and calculate in one's head).

Assuming I would go with 8 days (which I am not very comfortable with), what would be the effect of those 8 days?

For example moving a barracks... do I need to sack those 25 hands before I can move it and wait 8 days until I can re-hire them?
Will the facility (e.g. lab, workshop, defenses) be completely offline during that time?

Seems like too much for something that I need only because I don't like the layout of my starting base...

PS: - Moving 2x2: 400k, 21 days
So, to move my hangar, it would take the same time as build a new one and cost 2x more?

Offline hellrazor

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Re: Moving base facilities
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2016, 07:10:26 pm »
Removing Storage capacity on Hangars would solve your problem, the enemy blowing up your stuff.

Offline Meridian

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Re: Moving base facilities
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2016, 07:16:13 pm »
Removing Storage capacity on Hangars would solve your problem, the enemy blowing up your stuff.

There is no storage capacity in the Hangars.

Enemy sent me a present (Blaster Bomb), which blew up my General Stores (only the content, not the facility itself).

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Moving base facilities
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2016, 07:43:48 pm »
All I can tell, this is a big can of worms that'd require a ton of extra code to handle in any serious way, and probably not without adding some "tunnel" facility, that represents dug place and reduces time and cost of further construction... Not sure if it's worth it. I just feel like it changes the game a bit too violently.
Switching places sounds like the best solution proposed so far, and the cost should be like, 50k at most... but otoh not everything can be moved within 1 day, try that with a nuclear reactor (no matter how much money you have)...
I'd rather go with just partial refunding of demolished buildings, easy and logical, while not abusive in any way. You built wrong? Too bad, you should have planned ahead. This option would at least allow you to cut your losses.
Also, using "custom base layout" is not a cheat by any means, either...

Not really related, but you've only lost stuff in that explosion because you've detonated a HE pack under your storage; if the roof and doors were undamaged, it'd shield the items from a (single) Blaster Bomb just fine :)

Offline Meridian

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Re: Moving base facilities
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2016, 08:09:44 pm »
You built wrong? Too bad, you should have planned ahead.

That's a little bit harsh to a newcomer.

I mean, I selected the default base, because I wanted to avoid mistakes I could make by not knowing enough about the mod.
Instead I got Stores next to Access lift; and Laboratory in the best sniping position on the map... how am I supposed to correct that? I don't have 99 million to move the lab.

I will implement both versions I guess, try it out and see, which looks better and is more "practical" to an average Joe... I don't want to implement just another shotgun nobody needs Kappa.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Moving base facilities
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2016, 08:40:52 pm »
Yes it is a bit harsh, I agree, but then no more harsh than the OG... I'm not trying to say you're at fault, especially since this is not 1.0 yet and I'm adding stuff to make it easier (like the corridor I mentioned before).
As for what I want, I definitely think refund is worth it, I always thought there's something wrong with the fact you're not getting some refund in the OG.
Switching, not sure but maybe, I think it's a bit too gamey, personally, but I abstain from voting. There's logic in this, but otoh it takes away some of the planning ahead part, so important in this game.
Also, both options should be optional and limited to facilities you know how to make (well you won't be able to move lab that way, but the lift is another story), and possibly have adjustable costs (either by multiple choice options, or by ruleset).