[OLD] Old OXCE+ discussion thread

[Solarius Scorch]

Meridian, what would happen if I set heatVision at more than normal vision? For example:

Code: [Select]

    heatVision: 80


[Arthanor]

Isn't heat vision a %? As in % of smoke that's ignored?

There are heat vision definitions in Piratez that are well above ~40, which is the vision range (up to 100 for chryssalids).

[Solarius Scorch]

Isn't heat vision a %? As in % of smoke that's ignored?

There are heat vision definitions in Piratez that are well above ~40, which is the vision range (up to 100 for chryssalids).

Damn... I completely forgot about the change.

Sorry, I'm an idiot. Please move along.

[Starving Poet]

Default may not be space for OXC, but it is default with the config shipped with Piratez.  So, for pretty much 99% of people using OXCE+, that's all that matters.

Code: [Select]

keyBattleDeselectUnit: 32
...
keyNightVisionHold: 32


[Meridian]

I am gonna repeat myself but... the config file is a user config file... and should NOT be shipped with the mod.
It messes up all settings and people have real problems when upgrading.
That's all I have to say.

[Solarius Scorch]

I am gonna repeat myself but... the config file is a user config file... and should NOT be shipped with the mod.
It messes up all settings and people have real problems when upgrading.
That's all I have to say.

I really don't like it, either. I know it's to ensure that options like Extender Accuracy are enabled, but it's a dirty way to do so. Still, this is the only way.
Meridian, do you think this could be done via ruleset instead? I mean Extender Accuracy. (And if it could, it would have to be a global value, since adding extenderAccuracy: true to every weapon just don't do in such a big mod.)

[Meridian]

I have a feature on my todo list, to allow modders to override (and make read-only) some of the user settings... mostly in the Advanced tab. So that UI settings like video/audio/shortcuts/etc. can be still changed, but game mechanics like extender accuracy or storage limitations would be enforced.

Other than that, I don't have any good suggestions.

[Solarius Scorch]

I have a feature on my todo list, to allow modders to override (and make read-only) some of the user settings... mostly in the Advanced tab. So that UI settings like video/audio/shortcuts/etc. can be still changed, but game mechanics like extender accuracy or storage limitations would be enforced.

Other than that, I don't have any good suggestions.

Well, that would be ideal. Until then, I think Dioxine won't stop distributing the file.

[Arthanor]

I have a feature on my todo list, to allow modders to override (and make read-only) some of the user settings... mostly in the Advanced tab. So that UI settings like video/audio/shortcuts/etc. can be still changed, but game mechanics like extender accuracy or storage limitations would be enforced.

Other than that, I don't have any good suggestions.

That would be much nicer than shipping configs indeed, but I disagree with "read only". What's the point? If someone decides to play Piratez without Extender Accuracy, that's their problem. It's a 1 player game after all. And making the option unchangeable in game doesn't even change much since you can either edit the mod ruleset or make a mod to Piratez that turns off the unwanted options. If you are stupid/are crazy/think you know better/just don't want to bother, you should be able to play how you like.

[Solarius Scorch]

That would be much nicer than shipping configs indeed, but I disagree with "read only". What's the point? If someone decides to play Piratez without Extender Accuracy, that's their problem. It's a 1 player game after all. And making the option unchangeable in game doesn't even change much since you can either edit the mod ruleset or make a mod to Piratez that turns off the unwanted options. If you are stupid/are crazy/think you know better/just don't want to bother, you should be able to play how you like.

That's not really so simple. People almost never do things right, not because they don't want to, but because they don't read manuals, don't know how the game works, and there are a lot of chaotic elements resulting. I used to think the same as you, but then I've seen how it really is. So now I support the claim that at least some of the necessary options should be enforced initially.
Or, to rephrase it: I have no problem with people changing options, or rulesets, but the correct ones should be enabled by default.
Perhaps it would be best to change the .exe to make these options enabled at install - after all, who would play with vanilla accuracy? And even then, this person could change the option to fit their perverse desires. Of course it would be a gangbang committed on vanilla-ness, but you know what? I don't care.

[Meridian]

My idea was that "MUST HAVE"s and "MUST NOT HAVE"s would be fixed by modder and unchangeable... and "SHOULD HAVE"s and "SHOULD NOT HAVE"s would be just highlighted in red maybe if different than suggested, but changeable.

Also, the "Reset to defaults" button would reset both... i.e. nothing would be red after reset.

[BTAxis]

Or, to rephrase it: I have no problem with people changing options, or rulesets, but the correct ones should be enabled by default.

So basically just supply a config file as per currently, except it's a "defaults" config that gets used if a user config doesn't exist.

[ohartenstein23]

Perhaps add support for using two configs - one that's the user's config with all their keybindings and such, then a partial config file that the mod uses to enable certain extended options and built-in mods like extender accuracy?

[Arthanor]

My solution would be:
- Ruleset comes with a list of "if a moron installs this, this is what they need" config stuff in it.
- This changes the default values of these options whenever that mod is active.
- Upon a new activation of the mod (from the mod page, not when starting the game and looking in the config to see what mods should be loaded on startup), it also changes the active values to the defaults.

Nothing is enforced, but when starting to use a new mod, the "reboot the game to load mod" also sets the active options to what is needed. This makes a complete transition from [ vanilla with vanilla background and vanilla config ] to [ Piratez with Piratez homescreen and Piratez config ]. If the user then reviews those options, and decides that, no, Extender is crap and they don't want to use it, then they can turn it OFF. And next time they start the game, it will still be OFF because it's not a fresh start. But it was ON at the start, like it should be and ensuring that most users use the mod as intended.

Then video, audio, keybindings, debug mode (which has caused issues in the past when the config had it active and suddenly people couldn't quick save/load) and other such options can be left entirely for the user to decide on.

This is how I would do it. But honestly, I just go fish the mod from the user/mods folder of the zip file and put that into my install of OXCE+ (which runs both XPiratez and XComFiles by swapping data, user and config directories), so this is academic. Since I don't want the great (striving and arguing about what's the best way to do things) becoming the enemy of the good (doing something better than shipping configs), that's my last post on this.

[CaptainCorkscrew]

Not quite ideal Arthanor, as it would reset the options on mod loading. This would make switching between mods a PITA.