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Author Topic: Old OXCE+ discussion thread  (Read 296518 times)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Meridian's resources and mods for X-PirateZ
« Reply #75 on: January 09, 2016, 01:28:55 am »
I think consumable medikit probably more appropriate to my branch than Meridian. Soon I will start again taking requests because I'm finishing scripting (99% done). After that I could look on that.

Oh good, that would be nice. Thanks.

Online Meridian

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Re: Meridian's resources and mods for X-PirateZ
« Reply #76 on: January 09, 2016, 11:52:30 am »
I think I've written it somewhere already but can't find it now, so I'll repeat here.

1/ Would it be possible to make beer, rum etc. consumable items? What I mean is that if you drink all the charges, you shouldn't get all your bottle back in the base; you should just lose it and buy or brew a new one. If you have some partially finished bottles, the remaining content should combine to form as many full bottles as possible, exactly like ammo.
Actually, medikits and bandages should follow the same mechanics... In vanilla it is assumed that you can simply replenish their content in base, but in Piratez it's not so trivial.

2/ Another but related thing about drinkable stuff is that it's weird that the bottles are clearly divided into three parts (healing, painkillers and stimulation). It would be more natural if each sip gave you all three effects at once (or two, if some component is not present).

3/ So Meridian, do you think it can be done? I know it's probably not trivial, but I think it's dearly needed.

1/ Yes, making medikit-type items consumable is possible and quite a good idea for piratez.

2/ All 3 effects by drinking alcohol is also easily doable... but doesn't make too much sense to me. You drink alcohol for pain killer and for energy recovery, but you pour it on the wound when you want to heal. So at least these two are clearly separate, no? As for pain killer and energy/stun recovery, we could think about it... but honestly, who ever uses pain killers...? I guess we can just happily ignore them...

3/ It can be done. I guess it would take me between 4 and 10 hours, including testing. However, since this would not have any immediate use for anyone, I would need to know that sombody is actually planning to use it in their mod... so far only xpiratez is using oxce, so the question goes directly to dioxine I guess. I will not implement any features until I know for sure that they will be used. 4-10 hours may seem like nothing, but I value my time a lot.

One more thing: would it be possible to have a filtering system in the Craft/Equipment screen? Like displaying only weapons, or maybe even only melee weapons, or perhaps even only one-handed weapons? This would be really handy for example whenever I am looking for a pistol for my melee warrior and it's hard to see what we have, especially when I have tons of stuff (or doing tests in Quick Battle).

Yes, that's a great idea... I also had it in the back of my head, but somehow it didn't pop up. I will put it on my todo list.

Quick Question - Are commendations involved?

No.

I think consumable medikit probably more appropriate to my branch than Meridian. Soon I will start again taking requests because I'm finishing scripting (99% done). After that I could look on that.

Agreed.
I can make a PR though, if I would implement it sooner than you.

Offline Bloax

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Re: Meridian's resources and mods for X-PirateZ
« Reply #77 on: January 09, 2016, 02:36:20 pm »
I think consumable medikit probably more appropriate to my branch than Meridian. Soon I will start again taking requests because I'm finishing scripting (99% done). After that I could look on that.
Say, would your scripting stuff allow for scriptable weapon actions?
Like a "weapon" that has an action that causes arbitrary stat changes potentially with arbitrary 'status effects' that last for a set amount of time?
An arbitrary example would be a potion of vitalization that restored 10 hp up to max outside of the status effect, and gave str+5 tu+10 stamina+20 for 4 turns.

This has been brought to you by the Ministry of Arbitrary Questions about Arbitrary Concepts.

or is it just map scripting

Offline Yankes

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Re: Meridian's resources and mods for X-PirateZ
« Reply #78 on: January 09, 2016, 02:54:37 pm »
Exactly, when I will add script events on bullet hits (and some "buffs") you could do that. But this will not be available on beginning.
First thing that you can be able to do will be recoloring of unit sprites (it can look like christmas tree if you want) and switch graphic parts of sprite as you fit (image flying armor that have moving wings when in air, or simply more torsos instead only male and female).

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Meridian's resources and mods for X-PirateZ
« Reply #79 on: January 09, 2016, 03:14:07 pm »
1/ Yes, making medikit-type items consumable is possible and quite a good idea for piratez.

Oh good.

2/ All 3 effects by drinking alcohol is also easily doable... but doesn't make too much sense to me. You drink alcohol for pain killer and for energy recovery, but you pour it on the wound when you want to heal. So at least these two are clearly separate, no?

Hmm... I thought it was used both internally and externally, it's magical rum after all. :) Frankly, I don't know, you can be right. We need Dioxine to have a final say.

As for pain killer and energy/stun recovery, we could think about it... but honestly, who ever uses pain killers...? I guess we can just happily ignore them...

I don't really use it either, but it's more about design principles. I guess it depends on the decision on healing - if it goes in, then painkillers would go in, too.

3/ It can be done. I guess it would take me between 4 and 10 hours, including testing. However, since this would not have any immediate use for anyone, I would need to know that sombody is actually planning to use it in their mod... so far only xpiratez is using oxce, so the question goes directly to dioxine I guess. I will not implement any features until I know for sure that they will be used. 4-10 hours may seem like nothing, but I value my time a lot.

No, I agree, it's not a trivial amount of time. :) X-Com Files will use OXCE too, and I think it highly probable that it'll be used somehow, but I have no particular plan yet.

Yes, that's a great idea... I also had it in the back of my head, but somehow it didn't pop up. I will put it on my todo list.

Great!

Exactly, when I will add script events on bullet hits (and some "buffs") you could do that. But this will not be available on beginning.
First thing that you can be able to do will be recoloring of unit sprites (it can look like christmas tree if you want) and switch graphic parts of sprite as you fit (image flying armor that have moving wings when in air, or simply more torsos instead only male and female).

Does it mean we can assign random sprites to units, or at least random colours to their parts (like currently with skin/hair)?

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Meridian's resources and mods for X-PirateZ
« Reply #80 on: January 09, 2016, 03:44:07 pm »
An arbitrary example would be a potion of vitalization that restored 10 hp up to max outside of the status effect, and gave str+5 tu+10 stamina+20 for 4 turns.

Hope not, it's useless to me (as it'd force the player to juggle potions like an idiot instead of fighting) and due to complexity, burden OXCE with endless bugs that'd disrupt the currently working mechanism.

Offline Yankes

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Re: Meridian's resources and mods for X-PirateZ
« Reply #81 on: January 09, 2016, 03:44:55 pm »
Does it mean we can assign random sprites to units, or at least random colours to their parts (like currently with skin/hair)?
You will be able choose any body part graphic for any body part in current unit PCK file. You will get index of current body part graphic and you will return any index you want (it can be outside of standard set).
And for color, you will get current pixel color, current shade, what body part it belong to, unit and its data, animation counter. What you will do with it is up to you.
You can take race/gender of unit and change result color based on this or not if you want. Now some sneak peek (this is my test case to see if I don't break my own code):
Code: [Select]
armors:
  - type: STR_NONE_UC
    recolorScript: |
      set r1 in;
      get_shade r0 r1;
      get_color r2 r1;
     
      set r3 0;
      if eq blit_part blit_legs;
        testFunc r3 1;
        testFunc r3 r3;
      else eq blit_part blit_leftarm;
        set_color r1 5;
      else eq blit_part blit_rightarm;
        set_color r1 11;
      else;
        set r3 0;
      end;
     
     
      test r2 15;
      goto_eq body;
     
      add_shade r1 shade;
      ret r1;
     
      body:
      set r2 r0;
      mul r2 -1;
      add r2 16;
      add r0 anim_frame;
      BattleUnit.getId unit r3;
      add r0 r3;
      wavegen_tri r0 16 16 r2;
     
      bbb:
      set_shade r1 r0;
      add_shade r1 r3;
     
      ret r1;
This code will result in something like that:



Offline Cristao

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Re: Meridian's resources and mods for X-PirateZ
« Reply #82 on: January 09, 2016, 04:56:04 pm »
Brilliant work. I restarted my game because of this. I also love the Pirate music collection.

Offline Bloax

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Re: Meridian's resources and mods for X-PirateZ
« Reply #83 on: January 09, 2016, 05:05:40 pm »
Hope not, it's useless to me (as it'd force the player to juggle potions like an idiot instead of fighting) and due to complexity, burden OXCE with endless bugs that'd disrupt the currently working mechanism.
That's a pretty shortsighted reply. o_O
Status effects have been a core of TBS games for a while due to it being such an interesting mechanic to work with.
Juggling drugs like a retard is a balance issue more than anything; you wouldn't be juggling them if they were both tactically valueable and very scarce, nor if they lasted a very long time.

Not to mention the potential of permanent negative side-effects.. Hehehe.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Meridian's resources and mods for X-PirateZ
« Reply #84 on: January 09, 2016, 07:10:14 pm »
That's a pretty shortsighted reply. o_O
Status effects have been a core of TBS games for a while due to it being such an interesting mechanic to work with.
Juggling drugs like a retard is a balance issue more than anything; you wouldn't be juggling them if they were both tactically valueable and very scarce, nor if they lasted a very long time.

Not to mention the potential of permanent negative side-effects.. Hehehe.

Not as much short sighted as selfish, if anything.

I've been playing games for 30 years and modding them for 20. I know my sh*t and I know what I'm talking about. Played hundreds of games with f*cking status effect potions and hated them every time, unless the boost was a major one (think Diablo altars) and the potions very rare. However, X-Com is a game with manufacturing so, there is no chance in hell the potions will be rare. So stat modifiers yes, but not in the battlescape. F*ck, I want body augmentations to be a thing at some point. Just no magic potions.

So yeah, spending entire turns drinking potions so you can get some slight edge in combat? F*ck that, not in my mod. That'd mean I'd have to balance the game with potions in mind, so not using potions would be a dumb choice, and a choice between dumb and tedious is a very bad choice. So I am selfish in a sense that I will not use such mechanics (well, I would to some degree if they were there, but I don't need them per se) and still get all the bugs that always come with features.

Otoh the thing Yankes is doing now is immensely useful, as it would, for example, finally allow night vision to be playable.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Meridian's resources and mods for X-PirateZ
« Reply #85 on: January 09, 2016, 07:14:25 pm »
Well, magic potions can also be a mod. :) If someone wants them in (I surely don't, God forbid), sure, it's a free country. :)

Offline Bloax

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Re: Meridian's resources and mods for X-PirateZ
« Reply #86 on: January 09, 2016, 07:19:34 pm »
Oh but I'm just asking out of morbid curiosity.
Getting the potential of some real Sword & Sorcery with spells and all that jizz all up in the xcom engine would be great.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Meridian's resources and mods for X-PirateZ
« Reply #87 on: January 10, 2016, 02:43:07 pm »
Oh but I'm just asking out of morbid curiosity.
Getting the potential of some real Sword & Sorcery with spells and all that jizz all up in the xcom engine would be great.

In another game, sure. "Fantasy X-Com" has been a thing on this forum for a long time, there's some resources made (by Luke83 I believe), so it could be nice if designed well.

But I think a better solution for Piratez would be item bonuses, like: +10 Accuracy when in hand.


EDIT: Meridian, after some testing I think while the green enemy markers are great, it would be better if they didn't blink. Blinking normally signifies IMMEDIATE DANGER in games (and other machine), and on an enemy that is not nearby it is confusing since it stirs wrong instincts in the player's mind. So I think it would be better if they were just flat green squares, even though they wouldn't look as awesome.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Meridian's resources and mods for X-PirateZ
« Reply #88 on: January 10, 2016, 02:54:22 pm »
@Meridian
Having tested these improvements a bit, I find them great, and no bugs so far. But I'd like some changes to be optional... the ones I found controversial:

- Production profitability view (I like it but things like these are generally optional);
- Execution (my ire is it always kills the target, that's why I want it to be optional, but otoh it is a nice improvement);
- Item Handeness display (it's useful but a bit superfluous to me, since I see handeness on the battlesprite, so I vote for optional);
- Light background on the minimap (I personally prefer the original, black one for the immersion; both options should be possible).

Also:
- I agree with solar that the green indicators shouldn't be blinking.
- We could also improve the kneel display but I don't know how yet (the current indicator is okay but I think it could be better).
- The avatar toggle should support all 128 possible avatars, not just 32 (I already have further 16 ready for the next release).

And the final request would be for the .exe to be standalone, with these dlls integrated, if it is possible - it'd be much cleaner and easier to upgrade/switch versions.

Online Meridian

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Re: Meridian's resources and mods for X-PirateZ
« Reply #89 on: January 10, 2016, 11:29:43 pm »
EDIT: Meridian, after some testing I think while the green enemy markers are great, it would be better if they didn't blink. Blinking normally signifies IMMEDIATE DANGER in games (and other machine), and on an enemy that is not nearby it is confusing since it stirs wrong instincts in the player's mind. So I think it would be better if they were just flat green squares, even though they wouldn't look as awesome.

Not blinking green indicators are ok for me too, will do.

@Meridian
Having tested these improvements a bit, I find them great, and no bugs so far. But I'd like some changes to be optional... the ones I found controversial:

- Production profitability view (I like it but things like these are generally optional);
- Execution (my ire is it always kills the target, that's why I want it to be optional, but otoh it is a nice improvement);
- Item Handeness display (it's useful but a bit superfluous to me, since I see handeness on the battlesprite, so I vote for optional);
- Light background on the minimap (I personally prefer the original, black one for the immersion; both options should be possible).

Also:
- I agree with solar that the green indicators shouldn't be blinking.
- We could also improve the kneel display but I don't know how yet (the current indicator is okay but I think it could be better).
- The avatar toggle should support all 128 possible avatars, not just 32 (I already have further 16 ready for the next release).

And the final request would be for the .exe to be standalone, with these dlls integrated, if it is possible - it'd be much cleaner and easier to upgrade/switch versions.

1/ production profitability is already in vanilla (few days ago) so with next bigger update it will not be my code at all
2/ all features you mentioned can be made optional, see more info about it below... for now i will make those you mentioned
3/ there is a much better kneel indicator here: https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/pull/1056  -- I can just include this one, but you will have to add additional sprites and ruleset into piratez... I don't want to distribute such things myself
4/ how would the avatar toggle work then? a list with 128 options seems too much...
5/ I don't know how to make a standalone EXE, but Yankes promised to help with that

In general my plan is to:
1/ make a video with description of all features from 2.5b+
2/ ask SupSuper/Warboy what can I PR into vanilla (with/without advanced option)
3/ merge what I can into vanilla
4/ ask Yankes what I can merge into OXCE 3.0 (with/without advanced option)
5/ merge what I can into OXCE 3.0
6/ keep the rest in my branch

Also, I won't be doing PRs before they are actually approved first... I don't have time to waste.
Also, before merging, I would do proper support for translations, TFTD, and all that jazz... which is not there at the moment.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 11:32:24 pm by Meridian »