[OLD] Old OXCE+ discussion thread

[Dioxine]

With the amount of extra mods you've been using, I cannot guarantee anything... And like I said, I was unable to reproduce the crash. You have to be more specific when it happens.

[Arthanor]

Hi Meridian,

I tried to compile your oxce2.9 branch, and got this:

Code: [Select]

/home/jpaucl/XCom/OpenXCom/Compilations/Meridian/src/src/Basescape/SoldiersState.cpp: In member function ‘void OpenXcom::SoldiersState::lstItemsRightArrowClick(OpenXcom::Action*)’:
/home/jpaucl/XCom/OpenXCom/Compilations/Meridian/src/src/Basescape/SoldiersState.cpp:339:25: error: ‘INT_MAX’ was not declared in this scope
  if (0 < numSoldiers && INT_MAX >= numSoldiers && row < numSoldiers - 1)
                         ^
make[2]: *** [src/CMakeFiles/openxcom.dir/Basescape/SoldiersState.cpp.o] Error 1
make[2]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....
make[1]: *** [src/CMakeFiles/openxcom.dir/all] Error 2
make: *** [all] Error 2

[Meridian]

It is fixed on 2.5b branch already, I will merge it to 2.9 over the weekend.

[SIMON BAILIE]

No I didn't update the exe as since starting the play through on 7th Feb I've been using the exe of that date, maybe one of the mods is causing some sort of conflict but it hasn't happened again so I'll not worry too much. As for the number of mods, is 21 in total too many? This is including piratez itself and several that come with piratez-see below:

mods:
  - piratez
  - altSmokeOps
  - altTacArmor
  - altSGC
  - piratezNaughtyMod
  - PIRATE STATSTRINGS(BY ARTHANOR)
  - avatar-rank
  - BETTER INGAME UI
  - COMMENDATIONS(STAND ALONE)
  - armor-previews
  - day-night-indicator
  - ENFORCER(XCOM)
  - E SHOCKER reps STUN ROD
  - kneel-button
  - MASS ACCELERATOR
  - NAYMORE
  - MORTAR TANK
  - pirate-music
  - refuel-notification
  - STUNBLASTER
  - VIPER ASSAULT CANNON

edit: Saying all that I should take off commendations as it doesn't work in this play through but I'm worried that taking it off will do more harm than good.

[Arthanor]

It is fixed on 2.5b branch already, I will merge it to 2.9 over the weekend.

Alright! Is there much difference between the two branches functionality-wise or is it "just" a new oxce version? I think XPiratez 0.9D only uses oxce 2.5 any ways?

[Dioxine]

Uses 2.5 for now, but will be upgraded.

@Simon:
I know what mods you're using (it's listed in your savegame file), I'm just saying I cannot give any guarantees because I don't know most of them. Not saying it's the mods that cause the crash, either. Might be some genuine map bug or whatever. Impossible to tell. Many mods will clash with Piratez, that's for sure.
Things I know:
- Commendations cannot work unless you've compiled a modification of Meridian's exe that includes them.
- kneel-button is already integrated, no need to use the mod
- not sure why you're using a mortar tank, the game already has one...
- any mod that modifies some of game's original content might cause unforeseen effects with Piratez. Mods that add completely new things (like the Viper) should be safe to use. Unless they're buggy themselves, that is - many weren't updated for ages

[Dioxine]

@Meridian: trying to make these armor preview icons, but I'm getting transparency problems, despite using the same palette as always (GUI_Soldier.gif displays transparency properly, but the same palette applied to custom armor preview icons produces light green where the transparency should be). What's going on?

EDIT: NVMD, I've found the proper palette and everything seems to be fine.

[Arthanor]

Meridian, have you considered including my statistical bullet conservation? I find it helps a lot to alleviate the "don't shoot or empty the clip" syndrome for special weapons with small, valuable clips.

Also, do you think it would be possible to add keyboard shortcut support for ufopaedia articles? Specifically pressing tab to go to the next article and shift-tab to go to the previous article, much like we can cycle through soldiers. It would be very handy for scanning multiple articles.

[Meridian]

Meridian, have you considered including my statistical bullet conservation? I find it helps a lot to alleviate the "don't shoot or empty the clip" syndrome for special weapons with small, valuable clips.

I have seen it, but I consider it a small cheat, or at least cheese. If some ammo is rare and/or expensive, it is either a modder's mistake and should be corrected or modder's intention and should be accepted.

Also, do you think it would be possible to add keyboard shortcut support for ufopaedia articles? Specifically pressing tab to go to the next article and shift-tab to go to the previous article, much like we can cycle through soldiers. It would be very handy for scanning multiple articles.

Yes, it is literally just two lines of code... but aren't the buttons enough? There's nothing else to click on anyways...

[Yankes]

I think random solution work only for weapons that have ammunition in abundance. If we have ammo that is limited then each time player lose roll then he will be enraged (even if last 10 mission he grain more than he lost now). Image that you lost unique 10 bullet clip after only one shoot even it "should" preserve.

I think better solution would be counting and storing sub clip bullets.

[yrizoud]

I too think that this clip "round down" is significant in Piratez.
The random solution is statistically fair in the long run, and scavenging can explain the lucky rolls. The "leftover ammo" solution is even better but requires modifying save files (to store the extra data)
Either solution would successfully remove the weird incentive to use 'all-or-nothing' of a weapon.

[Arthanor]

I have seen it, but I consider it a small cheat, or at least cheese. If some ammo is rare and/or expensive, it is either a modder's mistake and should be corrected or modder's intention and should be accepted.

But.. it is statistically equivalent to conserving bullets. It is certainly not a cheat, nor a way to bypass a modder's intent. With this, you can carefully hoard your shots and hope to be able to keep a weapon (but also risk losing the clip after a single shot used), instead of the current situation which encourages not shooting (overhoarding, wasting the modder's work since you are not using it) or emptying a whole clip (going against "reasonable behaviour" for a weapon with valuable ammo).

And there is nothing to get frustrated about. Either you lose a clip because you used up some shots, or you don't. Which is an improvement over always losing the clip.

Yes, it is literally just two lines of code... but aren't the buttons enough? There's nothing else to click on anyways...

I guess it is different depending on people. I am not much of a mouse user. I would love shortcuts. If you don't think it should be implemented (even if just for consistency's and my sake), can you point me to the change that would need to be made?

[Yankes]

And there is nothing to get frustrated about. Either you lose a clip because you used up some shots, or you don't. Which is an improvement over always losing the clip.

"abundance" is require to made your solution work (lot of rolls will even out). But problem is when you lack items and your "be" or "not to be" depends on one roll it could be frustrating.

The random solution is statistically fair in the long run, and scavenging can explain the lucky rolls. The "leftover ammo" solution is even better but requires modifying save files (to store the extra data)

Good thing that OXC save games is that it ignore all unknown nodes this allow without any big effort add new data without even breaking backward compatibility.
I think system should work like that:
1) At end battlescape last half empty clip is fill up.
2) You remember numbers of bullet you borrow in base (you add this to value from previous mission).
3) If numbers of borrowed is greater than clip size, then remove one clip and reduce borrow count.
4) When you use last clip from base in battlescape it would have bullets count reduced by borrow value (similar with transfer between bases).

Only glitch it could have is downgrading to basic version of OXC, it will fill up all partial empty clips in bases

[Arthanor]

"abundance" is require to made your solution work (lot of rolls will even out). But problem is when you lack items and your "be" or "not to be" depends on one roll it could be frustrating.

Fair enough, but it still seems better than always "not to be". You are right in needing a lot of rolls to properly work, but I still consider it an improvement over a constant bias.

Good thing that OXC save games is that it ignore all unknown nodes this allow without any big effort add new data without even breaking backward compatibility.
I think system should work like that:
1) At end battlescape last half empty clip is fill up.
2) You remember numbers of bullet you borrow in base (you add this to value from previous mission).
3) If numbers of borrowed is greater than clip size, then remove one clip and reduce borrow count.
4) When you use last clip from base in battlescape it would have bullets count reduced by borrow value (similar with transfer between bases).

Only glitch it could have is downgrading to basic version of OXC, it will fill up all partial empty clips in bases

Yes, proper bullet conservation is better than statistical bullet conservation, no doubt. But its downside is that I can't code that If you or Meridian could, I'd be more than happy to use it!

[Dioxine]

This "bullet conservation" sounds all nice but I don't want to be forced to double all the ammo prices... they were balanced with the old system in mind. In reality, it would discourage instead of encourage to use expensive weapons since the clips would be even more expensive than they are now (get 3 clips 40k each, fire a couple of shots, get f*cked by the RNG three times).

As for "partial clip" solution, while it is most reasonable wouldn't it baloon the savefile size? The saving times are already considerably long...