Author Topic: Area 51 - General Feedback thread  (Read 141754 times)

Offline XCOMFan419

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2015, 04:07:35 am »
I have some ideas. Maybe a grass version of the desert? Like no trees or anything. (If it's possible) It can go in flatlands places like Central Canada and stuff. Also, great work on the terrains! I love them all. They look fantastic and will surely change up the old green green and more green that burns my eyes now :P

Also with the side doors: It's just my personal opinion. I think it will also offer more tactical options for XCOM players. If it's a 10 person Skyranger, then I'd rather take the 10 people. Otherwise my entire strategy is thrown off. So because I'd rather not lose my first 3 rookies because of alien reaction fire, having some doors at the side will give us an opportunity to scout/kill the aliens at our flanks.

Heavier tanks is also an option, followed by "Improved Tanks" which use the same sprites, but can now mount a laser cannon/whatever crazy things you can come up with that aren't rockets, cannons, etc. Alloy and then Hovertanks. (Of course this is just opinion) Also, feel free to use some of the tanks in Tanks, Drones, Sectopods? Oh my! because while I haven't abandoned the project, it's going to be a while until I can pick it back up. School and stuff.

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2015, 03:31:40 pm »
However.  I think think there needs to be a bit more balancing done.

First the standard rifle in the game is supposed to be a sniper rifle which is why it has such a high aimed stats 110.  By comparison laser and plasma rifles have 100% aimed but higher damage and higher auto acc.

Rifle
Auto: 35% (Accuracy 35%)
Snap: 25% (Accuracy 60%)
Aimed: 80% (Accuracy 110%) <<as you can see this is way higher than it should be as it's a sniper rifle

So you added a second rifle that is also sniper with no auto. Maybe regular game rifle needs to be changed either into an assault or into a sniper rifle as right now it kinda does both.

Here is sniper rifle vs regular game rifle as assault:

Sniper Rifle
Snap: 18% (Accuracy 48%) <or ??? terrible snap so is not so useful close range is worse than pistol
aimed 95% (125%) <would be highest in the game just above heavy plasma and rocket launcher both 115%
damage 40
no auto
This would make the sniper rifle perfect for long range but the 125% max aimed shot acc would bring it under 100% even for the highest ranked soldiers adding that randomness back. Your 75 aim soldier would probably have 80%? or so chance of hitting all over the map using aimed . The low snap high aimed difference forces you to kinda set up camp and shoot once per turn instead of going around with 40 damage sniper rifle shooting multiple times using snap.

Rifle  (as assault)
Auto: 35% (Accuracy 35%)
Snap: 25% (Accuracy 60%) 
Aimed: 60% (Accuracy 90%) <simply reduce aimed for regular rifle
damage 30
Regular game rifle as i said as supposed to be a sniper. Simply downgrade the aimed acc so players would use aimed less and auto more often. 3 bullets at 35% accuracy is almost 105% chance it would hit vs 90% aimed chance.  Alternatively you can reduce auto a bit to 32% and damage a bit to 28 and have 4 bullets  per auto. That's more of an assault and you would go auto a lot with regular rifle.

Let me know what you think!

This sounds sensitive and well thought, although it does change one of vanilla weapon's stats (heresy! ;))

However, my question is how to balance everything on the conventional weapons since there are 6 types:
* Pistol (no auto)
* Machine Pistol (auto)
* Rifle/SMG (auto)
* Sniper Rifle (no auto)
* Shotgun (special shell)
* LMG (auto)

I have some ideas. Maybe a grass version of the desert? Like no trees or anything. (If it's possible) It can go in flatlands places like Central Canada and stuff. Also, great work on the terrains! I love them all. They look fantastic and will surely change up the old green green and more green that burns my eyes now :P

Like this?



At this point I'm basically cloning terrains by changing the sprites but reusing the maps and creating 3 different versions of each new terrain by using the Desert, Mountain and Forest maps, so each version can be more or less flat. Later, when the new terrain/texture system gets implemented then it will be possible to have 3-4 possible terrains for each texture, chosen randomly.

I'm also toying around with creating some swamps using the polar maps:



Quote
Also with the side doors: It's just my personal opinion. I think it will also offer more tactical options for XCOM players. If it's a 10 person Skyranger, then I'd rather take the 10 people. Otherwise my entire strategy is thrown off. So because I'd rather not lose my first 3 rookies because of alien reaction fire, having some doors at the side will give us an opportunity to scout/kill the aliens at our flanks.


Well the jury is still out on the 10 unit Skyranger, and the idea of side doors has become recorded here in case it is needed in the future.
 
Quote
Heavier tanks is also an option, followed by "Improved Tanks" which use the same sprites, but can now mount a laser cannon/whatever crazy things you can come up with that aren't rockets, cannons, etc. Alloy and then Hovertanks. (Of course this is just opinion) Also, feel free to use some of the tanks in Tanks, Drones, Sectopods? Oh my! because while I haven't abandoned the project, it's going to be a while until I can pick it back up. School and stuff.

I'm actually already using the Minigun and Plasma Minigun HWPs of your Tanks, Drones, Sectopods? Oh my! mod as MJ12 terror units. :)
There's great stuff there in your mod, although I'm only adding stuff when there's an actual game need.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 03:36:08 pm by Hobbes »

Offline hellrazor

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2015, 03:43:04 pm »
Hobbes your Ideas about Terrains are awesome!
I can't wait until i can play in steppe desert or huging my guys through some swamps, forward to the enemy.

Offline tollworkout

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2015, 02:27:20 am »
Looks good man!

In regards to weapons I am also working on a mod and I wanna preserve original weapons and not change much but simply add to it unique things. Is hard.

SMG, Machine Pistol, Sniper Rifle, LMG ... tricky. You must find a way to make them all uniquely useful . Perhaps by focusing on either aimed snapped or auto. For example machine pistol could be a pistol with auto and lower snap and aimed than pistol. SMG is a rifle with lower auto snap and aimed but 5 bullets and pistol damage. LMG is a rifle with more damage and auto ut lower auto snap  and aimed or has same stats as rifle but more damage and no auto. etc Focusing on specific roles I guess. :D The idea is smaller weapons have low damage/accuracy but also low TU/weight , medium weapons have higher damage and accuracy but more TU /weight while heavy weapons are low accuracy same TU but high damage/weight. Automatic weapons get auto while heavier weapons generally don't have auto.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 02:33:16 am by tollworkout »

Offline Mr. Quiet

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2015, 02:55:02 am »
Sorry Hobbes, I just got here and I only read a bit of the op and saw the first few photos on the first page to keep things spoil-free, so you don't have to respond to me. I'm quite excited to see these kinds of overhaul mods in my X-COM to try something new with core mechanics untouched.

Is the HWP included with 10 ops? Without the tank can you add 4 more operatives? Would you have to shrink down the Skyranger for less space and keep it logical? I don't mind what you go with. Like I said, I love new ideas like this, but I'm no tester, I prefer the balanced, finished release, without dealing with beta issues.
I only want to suggest, if you want to keep the size of the Skyranger and find a logical reason to have less space to your operatives, turn the entrance within the Skyranger into a Tank storage bay, but you'll have to limit the Skyranger to 1 tank only for that area to only hold one tank, but not for operatives to stay in. Would the next trans upgrade be a similar or exact design of the Skyranger with more customization?

Something to add from the Xenonauts main dev who brought something up that I never thought about until that day I read it. The original X-COM formula was for filling your trans with weak operatives to fight a small number of commando-like genetically modified aliens, so that's the balance. You're gonna lose a bunch of men and women, but you'll still win if you play right. I'm not sure if it was your mod, maybe it was Luke's Terror-Site mod. He added twice as many aliens for his huge maps in the early game, very intense fighting, I barely made it with 1-3 operatives and no ammo left every time...

Offline Gifty

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2015, 07:53:29 am »
I support this project 100%, I always thought an expansion would be a great mod project. I would say, though, that a glut of early-game human weapons isn't necessarily a good thing; I notice that mods adding a ton of new items tend to bog down the buy/sell menu, and ballistic weapons tend to all blend together. I think making additions slow and steady would be the way to go, rather than going for quantity (especially regarding some of the new art assets, some of them clash a bit with the stock graphics). Great work so far, though, consider me ready and willing to help in any way possible.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure someone made a tab-based sorting system for the buy/sell menu a while back, I don't know what happened to it or how well it worked, but that might be worth looking into with all the new items!
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 08:00:07 am by Gifty »

Offline Duke_Falcon

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2015, 10:40:56 am »
Good mod so far. Only have the problem of the vanilla that many weak aliens come in hordes what result dozens of salvage - see attachment!

+ Like the many new cities. Not like the many new terror possibilites these provide for the Chryssalids...
+ Research is strange at first but easily solve to hire more scientists - what is pretty easy thanks for the many salvage from Sectoid\Floater hordes swarming Earth...
+ Felt the new UFOpaedia a bit strange. Not if the rearrangement is a big deal just got to adapted by the original. After some time it will be as natural IMO. Like the government reports what gives supply for the background story...

- Latest nightly... Hate it as it mess all the other mods sometimes and cause crashes when I not expect it...
- Smaller Skyranger. I always use only 10 soldiers per mission but this way I can not take dogs with me. Maybe 12 places instead of 10?
- HWPs. Makes game way to easy. Somehow aliens usually tend to ignore them and attack the soldiers instead what make the tanks grind them unpunished. Of course this is not the mod's fault! So just ignore this point...

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2015, 06:52:09 pm »
Is the HWP included with 10 ops? Without the tank can you add 4 more operatives? Would you have to shrink down the Skyranger for less space and keep it logical? I don't mind what you go with. Like I said, I love new ideas like this, but I'm no tester, I prefer the balanced, finished release, without dealing with beta issues.
I only want to suggest, if you want to keep the size of the Skyranger and find a logical reason to have less space to your operatives, turn the entrance within the Skyranger into a Tank storage bay, but you'll have to limit the Skyranger to 1 tank only for that area to only hold one tank, but not for operatives to stay in. Would the next trans upgrade be a similar or exact design of the Skyranger with more customization?

Something to add from the Xenonauts main dev who brought something up that I never thought about until that day I read it. The original X-COM formula was for filling your trans with weak operatives to fight a small number of commando-like genetically modified aliens, so that's the balance. You're gonna lose a bunch of men and women, but you'll still win if you play right. I'm not sure if it was your mod, maybe it was Luke's Terror-Site mod. He added twice as many aliens for his huge maps in the early game, very intense fighting, I barely made it with 1-3 operatives and no ammo left every time...

The HWP is included in the 10 units. The capacity of the Skyranger is currently being under consideration. One idea is a possible upgrade to 14 units that you can recover in a specific mission in the first month. I'm still designing this mission though so it may take a while. The final decision won't be taken until there's enough experience/feedback regarding the 10 units. The additional aliens must be on Luke's maps.

I support this project 100%, I always thought an expansion would be a great mod project. I would say, though, that a glut of early-game human weapons isn't necessarily a good thing; I notice that mods adding a ton of new items tend to bog down the buy/sell menu, and ballistic weapons tend to all blend together. I think making additions slow and steady would be the way to go, rather than going for quantity (especially regarding some of the new art assets, some of them clash a bit with the stock graphics). Great work so far, though, consider me ready and willing to help in any way possible.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure someone made a tab-based sorting system for the buy/sell menu a while back, I don't know what happened to it or how well it worked, but that might be worth looking into with all the new items!

The second issue to be solved with this mod are the personal weapons. I had two major criteria when adding them: visual, for the graphics to mix well together, and utility/space, meaning that a ton of weapons doesn't increase variety if they are simply clones. I also decided to limit the usage of the weapons that are used by the human factions by not allowing them to be bought or manufactured and to keep the menus without too much clutter.

I also wanted to do this regarding the weapons: perfection is not achieved when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away (Antoine de St. Exupery). However, I left this part for the playtesting phase since this is would take time and I wanted to finish the functional version.

So, if you want to give a hand then I'd appreciate if someone could look at the weapon sets and decide what should be removed and how the new weapons should be balanced (keeping the stats of the vanilla weapons). I've already have a few ideas about those issues and we seem to share the same thinking :)

Good mod so far. Only have the problem of the vanilla that many weak aliens come in hordes what result dozens of salvage - see attachment!

+ Like the many new cities. Not like the many new terror possibilites these provide for the Chryssalids...
+ Research is strange at first but easily solve to hire more scientists - what is pretty easy thanks for the many salvage from Sectoid\Floater hordes swarming Earth...
+ Felt the new UFOpaedia a bit strange. Not if the rearrangement is a big deal just got to adapted by the original. After some time it will be as natural IMO. Like the government reports what gives supply for the background story...

- Latest nightly... Hate it as it mess all the other mods sometimes and cause crashes when I not expect it...
- Smaller Skyranger. I always use only 10 soldiers per mission but this way I can not take dogs with me. Maybe 12 places instead of 10?
- HWPs. Makes game way to easy. Somehow aliens usually tend to ignore them and attack the soldiers instead what make the tanks grind them unpunished. Of course this is not the mod's fault! So just ignore this point...

Thanks for the report. I've got a few questions (spoilers included):
* What difficulty level are you playing? Are you using any other mods with it?
* How and when did you develop laser weapons? Plasma weapons? Advanced materials?
Spoiler:
* Have you seen the Mothership/Overseer UFO? Or the Overlord aliens? The Alien Elite crews on UFOs?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 07:03:27 pm by Hobbes »

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2015, 07:17:02 pm »
And now for some news regarding development:
1) The new terrains are almost done. In additional to the Original Five biomes (Desert, Forest, Mountain, Jungle and Polar) there will be 5 new biomes (Grassland, Savanna, Steppe, Taiga and Tundra). These 10 biomes then have 3-4 possible versions of each: flat, mixed, hills, temple and swamp. It won't be possible to play all of them until the texture restrictions are removed but several new ones will be introduced meanwhile. Farm is still included but it will be the improved version that contains new maps.
2) I'm going to create and attach a spreadsheet listing the personal weapons stats, since we're in the process of weapons balancing, to make it easier to have an overview.

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2015, 03:05:14 pm »
Version 0.2 of UFO Redux has been uploaded and can be downloaded here

This version reuses an unused Geoscape texture slot and adds a total of 18 new terrains for UFO missions. Not all terrains are yet playable due to a lack of textures (currently each texture can only be assigned 2 terrains, one for each hemisphere). These terrains will eventually find their way to the Terrain Pack, and there are still 7 additional terrains I want to design and include, essentially more swamp versions using the Polar maps. 

List of new terrains:
Forest (Polar)
Grassland (Desert)
Grassland (Forest)
Grassland (Forest Mountain)*
Jungle (Mountain)
Jungle (Polar)
Polar (Desert)
Savanna (Forest)
Savanna (Desert)
Savanna (Forest Mountain)*
Steppe (Desert)
Steppe (Forest)*
Steppe (Forest Mountain)
Taiga (Desert)*
Taiga (Forest)
Taiga (Forest Mountain)
Tundra (Desert)
Tundra (Mountain)
Tundra (Desert Mountain)
* = current unplayable (lack of Geoscape textures)

The current list of textures/terrains is:
0   Taiga Forest/Jungle Polar
1   Steppe Forest Mountain/Jungle Temple     
2   Improved Farm/Native
3   Savanna Forest/Steppe Desert   
4   Grassland Desert/Grassland Forest
5   Tundra Mountain/Tundra Desert Mountain
6   Forest Mountain/Jungle Original
7   Desert Mountain/Desert Original
8   Savanna Desert/Desert Temple
9   Polar Desert/Polar Mountain
10   Forest Polar/Jungle Mountain
11   Tundra Desert/Taiga Forest Mountain
12   Polar Original/Polar Original


And here are some images of Jungle Polar and Tundra Desert:

« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 05:20:04 pm by Hobbes »

Offline tollworkout

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2015, 03:20:10 pm »
looking  good!

Offline Mr. Quiet

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2015, 01:08:34 am »
Good to have you here Hobbes. I love all the work you've done with OXC.

Let me know if adding the mods below will cause conflicts:

https://www.openxcom.com/mod/firestorm-restyle
https://www.openxcom.com/mod/shotgun

I gotta have these 2 mods. The new firestorm model is the best thing I've ever seen around here. Then you have Warboy's/Ryseki's shotguns! Breacher-Class for breaching burning buildings and UFO's. I only wish we had grappling hooks to scale buildings... Why not guys? I try to equip them as close as the Breachers in Project Reality: BF2. My only fps game.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 03:52:27 am by Mr. Quiet »

Offline NebulaM78

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2015, 05:42:57 am »
When I try to start a landed UFO mission in the northern part of Asia I get an error saying SAVANNA.MCD is not found.

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2015, 06:15:02 am »
https://www.openxcom.com/mod/firestorm-restyle
https://www.openxcom.com/mod/shotgun

There are 3 shotguns included in Redux but none of the advanced ones, but in theory those mods shouldn't conflict.

When I try to start a landed UFO mission in the northern part of Asia I get an error saying SAVANNA.MCD is not found.

Here's an attached fix below

Offline NebulaM78

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2015, 06:56:36 am »
Here's an attached fix below

Fast, as always. Thanks.