Author Topic: Area 51 - General Feedback thread  (Read 138444 times)

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Area 51 - General Feedback thread
« Reply #1350 on: December 31, 2018, 07:08:16 pm »
After taking a break decided to replay game in Ironman mode. Failed above 20 time so far. Few questions about game play:
1. How to pass fence walls in military base escape mission? Green escape area located in the corner behind those walls with sand bags. Can't find any doors there. Usually I'm using high explosives to blow holes. Is it correct way or I'm just blinded?

You need to blow holes to escape, as you are doing.

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2. Missions on ship when you team start in one green area and all aliens just surround you from top. Using smoke grenades not working. Trying to shoot just produce reaction fire and a lot of people dies. How to survive? Ignore the mission and abort it just after landing?

Yeah, if it looks too tough, then you can simply evac. The problem with the ship missions is that one of them is too small to fit any landing craft, so I had to use the green exit area.

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3. Annoying intercept of battle ships my transport going to mission. No evasion maneuver in menu and aggressive attack button just pressed by default. My transport ship just dies in few seconds with all troops and equipment. Any fix? Or it's feature?

Hunter-killer UFOs only appear if you're using OXCE

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And the bug. Game crashes with message: "Failed to generate map layout" when transport reach the council mission and I pressing begin mission button. Log doesn't show any useful info so just attach here my save file. Hope you will find that bug and waiting for fix now because can't play from this save so far. Tested on openxcom and extender versions. Same error.

Do you remember the location on Earth of the council site? There's definitely a bug there, but I can't find it this way (too many terrains to check)

Offline Shiroi Bara

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Re: Area 51 - General Feedback thread
« Reply #1351 on: December 31, 2018, 09:20:03 pm »
Thanks for reply!
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Hunter-killer UFOs only appear if you're using OXCE
Jesus... I'm idiot. Sorry for my bad behavior! Of course I'm using OXCE because I like the function when someone in you team spotted the enemy it's shows for all you teammates in green square. Very useful - no need check every soldiers manually each turn. But thanks again! Gotta redo game on openxcom to avoid those hunter ships. It's very hard play Superhuman and Ironman for me. Too stressful. But may be anyone know addons what have same check enemy function as OXCE for original openxcom?
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Do you remember the location on Earth of the council site?
I had attached save file with bugged mission popped up. Have you check it?

Online Meridian

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Re: Area 51 - General Feedback thread
« Reply #1352 on: January 01, 2019, 07:33:19 pm »
3. Annoying intercept of battle ships my transport going to mission. No evasion maneuver in menu and aggressive attack button just pressed by default. My transport ship just dies in few seconds with all troops and equipment. Any fix? Or it's feature?

Evasive maneuvers should be available... can you provide a screenshot?

Troops don't die... they return to base alive and well, by foot.

But may be anyone know addons what have same check enemy function as OXCE for original openxcom?

OpenXcom Extended without Extended, but with Extended?
It's the same like strawberry cake without strawberries, but actually with strawberries.

Thanks for reply!Jesus... I'm idiot. Sorry for my bad behavior!

No need to be sorry.
Although hunter-killers are only available in OXCE, they are not turned on by default... the modder needs to turn them on... intentionally.
And they can be easily un-modded if you don't like them.

But I would maybe instead suggest decreasing the difficulty...
« Last Edit: January 01, 2019, 07:40:47 pm by Meridian »

Offline Shiroi Bara

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Re: Area 51 - General Feedback thread
« Reply #1353 on: January 01, 2019, 10:21:42 pm »
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can you provide a screenshot
Ok. I will.
For now hunters ship can attack Skyranger and even Darkstar.
By the way, when my Interceptor attacked by UFO and I pressed  "Evasive maneuvers" enemy continues coming to close range. Is this normal behavior? I'm asking  such question because I don't know OXCE mechanisms.
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And they can be easily un-modded if you don't like them
Can you explain how do it? Or better ask Hobbes?

Online Meridian

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Re: Area 51 - General Feedback thread
« Reply #1354 on: January 01, 2019, 10:42:07 pm »
By the way, when my Interceptor attacked by UFO and I pressed  "Evasive maneuvers" enemy continues coming to close range. Is this normal behavior? I'm asking  such question because I don't know OXCE mechanisms.

Yes, normal behavior.
If you cannot outrun the UFO normally, evasive maneuvers won't help you outrunning it... they will just have only halved chance to hit you... and to balance it out your reload time doubles.

Can you explain how do it? Or better ask Hobbes?

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,6586.msg108019.html#msg108019

Offline Shiroi Bara

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Re: Area 51 - General Feedback thread
« Reply #1355 on: January 01, 2019, 11:36:34 pm »
Thank you for you answers. Well, when you explained outrunning mechanism I think it's kinda useless use it with Skyranger and Darkstar anyway. Big alien hunter ships always faster than they're. Or it dependence on game difficulty? At least for hardest Superhuman they're always catch me. I never tried   friendly following support function yet. Sound interesting (according those options in OXCE). And by the way - could be missing "evasive maneuvers" button for those 2 ships what I mentioned early as just hardest difficulty feature? I mean - what the reason use it if transport and scout ships can't escape from enemy hunter anyway?

Online Meridian

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Re: Area 51 - General Feedback thread
« Reply #1356 on: January 01, 2019, 11:55:50 pm »
The main purpose of a hunter-killer is to hunt and kill... it's a UFO that WILL kill you if it can... that is its definition and implementing a magical "save me" button doesn't make any sense. I'd rather remove the HK feature completely than to give players a cheat button.

People asked for evasive maneuvers, so I added them... with the best definition I could think of:
1. you're flying erratically, making yourself harder to hit
2. but since you are so concentrated on that, you pay the price by also being less able to shoot (thus double reload time)

Flying erratically does not make you fly faster, so no escape... it's exactly the same what you do to UFOs... if they are slower than your interceptors, you kill them; they don't have cheat buttons either.

UFO speed does not depend on difficulty.

Evasive maneuvers button is on all difficulties... I'm still waiting for that screenshot btw. so I can fix if it doesn't work.

The purpose of using evasive maneuvers is for example in situation when UFO hunter-killer attacked your Skyranger and Interceptor(s) at the same time... and it is targeting Skyranger first for some reason... you can make yourself harder to hit and thus allow your Interceptor(s) to shoot it down before it can do too much damage.

Tips for airgame against HKs:
1. escort your transports with interceptors
2. detect alien bases asap, and avoid their detection range as much as you can (until you're ready to attack it)
3. attack alien bases as soon as you can

PS: I will probably teach HKs not attacking Skyranger returning from a mission... until we find a way to change its course (e.g. around alien bases) instead of always flying straight.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 12:01:57 am by Meridian »

Offline Shiroi Bara

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Re: Area 51 - General Feedback thread
« Reply #1357 on: January 02, 2019, 12:29:56 am »
Ok, thank you for explaining again. Used my old save file, bought Darkstar and here we go:
Hunter going to attack it:

Dog fight phase:

If you need same with Skyranger I'll try provide screenshots asap. But dog fight screen same.
And one more moment - when ships destroyed message "interceptor destroyed"  pop ups. Kinda not correct because Darkstar and Skyranger not interceptors. :)

Online Meridian

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Re: Area 51 - General Feedback thread
« Reply #1358 on: January 02, 2019, 12:26:21 pm »
Found it.
Seems to be intentional.

Code: [Select]
Added evasive maneuvers support when fighting HKs

- HK has 50% of its usual chance to hit
- craft has double the weapon reload time (in this case 2x aggressive reload time)

The icon for "Cautious attack" was reused, but target distance is the same
as for aggressive attack.
Only available when the craft has at least one weapon.

Offline Mr. Quiet

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Re: Area 51 - General Feedback thread
« Reply #1359 on: January 04, 2019, 12:49:37 am »
I like M&B:Warband's method of avoiding fights from a faster and larger enemy army. You leave a few of your men behind to die to divert attention, allowing the majority of your army to flee to safety.

That translates to having an interceptor escort grouped together with your Skyranger that you can detach to divert the UFO's attention.. or have them counterattack. 3 Interceptors vs. one big hunter-killer. That would change the way games are fought in the sky if you can group jets together. Wow.
Anyways, I feel your pain as well. I had three Skyrangers shot down right at the beginning of the game and finally realizing they needed protection. I even over-recruited operatives thinking they all died for nothing and the game was bugged for keeping them on the soldier roster.

New game suggestion: Request local government escort for 100% chance "no loss" on your end. Have 3rd world planes die for your Skyranger. The cost is waiting for locals to scramble. You can also risk it with your own protection or none. Increase the number of hunter-killers and you have a new layer of terror to deal with. You then change research paths and move up Skyranger with Alien Alloys for faster trans and avoid most larger hunter-killers. Slower Skyranger with weapons mounted sounds terrible. I'd be okay if our guys were upgraded to a Star Wars LAAT.


I need help with Council missions early on. I see them as an automatic hit on your score early game until you have either Personal or Laser weapons out. Any advice for a vet?

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Area 51 - General Feedback thread
« Reply #1360 on: January 04, 2019, 01:04:10 am »
I need help with Council missions early on. I see them as an automatic hit on your score early game until you have either Personal or Laser weapons out. Any advice for a vet?

You can get Personal Armor/Lasers from the Recovery/Capture/Extraction missions, if you're lucky with the reward tech

Sometimes it's better to avoid them all together and take the -500 score, it depends on the mission


Offline Shiroi Bara

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Re: Area 51 - General Feedback thread
« Reply #1361 on: January 04, 2019, 02:31:29 am »
Hobbes how you progress with map bug what I mentioned on page 90 (HQ.sav was attached as well)? Problem solved or you still investigating? 
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I need help with Council missions early on
I was lucky and did all of them until April. Later 2 of them pops simultaneously and I just send for one 2nd Skyranger with one guy and no equipment and aborted it when I landed. Negative score but at least not lost my craft.
And escorting is working! Funny thing. I destroyed hunter UFO on the way back from successful mission. It was landed but flew back for me and boo... dog fight - 2 screens with my crafts, my Interceptor  on 2nd in aggressive mode just eliminate the enemy UFO. Now problem is fuel for Interceptors if you fly with transport ship on long distance. It's out of fuel. Probably need build second base with a lot of soldiers. But maintenance it cost money and resources. Need keep eye on everything - ammo, missiles, armor. 70 engineers working like crazy.
Now the problem how to move to plasma phase, no scientists so far, no VIP capture for it as well. All what I did just bring me Laser or Alloys knowledge part of it what I'm already unlocked myself. And enemies not waiting - those cyborgs  and invisible guys not fun, even with fire ammo they're too strong for Superhuman. Should I try base  raid now? I discovered one base already.

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Area 51 - General Feedback thread
« Reply #1362 on: January 14, 2019, 03:55:53 pm »
Hobbes how you progress with map bug what I mentioned on page 90 (HQ.sav was attached as well)? Problem solved or you still investigating?
 

The issue is fixed (tile wrongly assigned as a wall instead of ground) but I haven't uploaded it yet.

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Now problem is fuel for Interceptors if you fly with transport ship on long distance. It's out of fuel. Probably need build second base with a lot of soldiers. But maintenance it cost money and resources. Need keep eye on everything - ammo, missiles, armor. 70 engineers working like crazy.

You'll need the second base sooner than normal because of the risk of sending a transport without any escorts. You'll also need a 2nd manufacturing base at a certain point, since alloys aren't as abundant and you'll need them more to build stuff.

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Now the problem how to move to plasma phase, no scientists so far, no VIP capture for it as well. All what I did just bring me Laser or Alloys knowledge part of it what I'm already unlocked myself. And enemies not waiting - those cyborgs  and invisible guys not fun, even with fire ammo they're too strong for Superhuman. Should I try base  raid now? I discovered one base already.

There's an alternative way to get Elerium (required for plasma weapons) that doesn't involve capturing an alien scientists. It's kinda spoilerish if I tell you, so I won't unless you ask ;)

Offline Shiroi Bara

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Re: Area 51 - General Feedback thread
« Reply #1363 on: January 15, 2019, 02:49:30 am »
There's an alternative way to get Elerium (required for plasma weapons) that doesn't involve capturing an alien scientists. It's kinda spoilerish if I tell you, so I won't unless you ask ;)
Yeah, I know about 2 stage mission and Alien Crystal. I  beat this game before, do you remember my nit-picking when I post a lot of bugs what I have found? But as I said when I finished the game, I used save scumming even played on Superhuman. Now I playing fair and feeling incredible difficulty. Plus early I used normal OpenXcom, not OXCE, so have not encounter any Alien Hunters. Then why I'm asking again if I already know? To be sure, may be you changed something since my last gameplay. But thanks as always for you work and response. Looking forward for uploaded fixed files, but of course take you time, no need to rush.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 10:41:04 am by Shiroi Bara »

Offline Shiroi Bara

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Re: Area 51 - General Feedback thread
« Reply #1364 on: January 16, 2019, 03:37:03 pm »
Hey Hobbes, I've found what aircraft weapon named as "Plasma cannon" in research list, but at manufacture it's appears as "Plasma beam". Is that correct?