Author Topic: Area 51 - General Feedback thread  (Read 157208 times)

Offline Duke_Falcon

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2015, 09:47:47 am »
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Thanks for the report. I've got a few questions (spoilers included):
* What difficulty level are you playing? Are you using any other mods with it?
* How and when did you develop laser weapons? Plasma weapons? Advanced materials?

- Third easiest difficulty as I reluctant to play harder with new mods I not played previously.
- Use Aliens pick up weapons mod but usually they still not pick those up.
- I not researched lasers so far since those usually the best weapons if they not use ammo. In this mod those use?
- I experienced you tweaked the tech tree a bit as some items become available with other pre-reqs what I remembered. Not examined closely what unlocked what and I mostly research alien life forms dead or alive.
- I depart missions where I find Mutons, Ethereals - well, put it simple - I left if enemies are not Sectoids, Floaters and Snakemen. But since these raid in masses it cause little or no score loss. In air combat I never attack ships what greater than "Medium" but I dare to raid them if bigger ships landing.
- Not seen them and if they are exported from XenoOps I not want it untill my squad is well armoured to such a job.

About gameplay... I experienced that most medium ships not firing back to the Interceptor so they could be shot down by stingrays. Maybe it's vanilla's heritage? Also sometimes very large ships landing in cities - Infiltration I suspect - but at the end of the month a different country left the X-com project. I wonder if aliens infiltrate London - if they on such missions - why France or Germany left the project?
Also why I shot sometimes Skyrangers down? There is a new faction in the game like MiB? Is it worth to plunder them or they have the same tech like Xcom?

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2015, 05:10:06 pm »
- I not researched lasers so far since those usually the best weapons if they not use ammo. In this mod those use?

Yes, they use clips in this mod, but if you research E-115 you can research an improved version that does not use clips. I think I figured out why you think it's easy, since there was a bug that gave early unlock of plasma weapons (fixed on the latest version)

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- I depart missions where I find Mutons, Ethereals - well, put it simple - I left if enemies are not Sectoids, Floaters and Snakemen. But since these raid in masses it cause little or no score loss. In air combat I never attack ships what greater than "Medium" but I dare to raid them if bigger ships landing.

There is an issue that I've informed yesterday related to the appearance of alien races that I was not aware and that seems to be the cause of this. I haven't fixed it yet since it requires a few changes and I also want to experience it myself first.

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- Not seen them and if they are exported from XenoOps I not want it untill my squad is well armoured to such a job.

They are a slightly different version from XenoOps but still as deadly :)

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About gameplay... I experienced that most medium ships not firing back to the Interceptor so they could be shot down by stingrays. Maybe it's vanilla's heritage? Also sometimes very large ships landing in cities - Infiltration I suspect - but at the end of the month a different country left the X-com project. I wonder if aliens infiltrate London - if they on such missions - why France or Germany left the project?
Also why I shot sometimes Skyrangers down? There is a new faction in the game like MiB? Is it worth to plunder them or they have the same tech like Xcom?

The UFOs landing on different cities is the game's mechanic: it chooses cities from the region, instead of only the country the aliens are infiltrating. Since I added so many cities it's natural that UFOs land on Athens when they are trying to infiltrate Germany ;)

The medium scouts that do not fire back are indeed Skyrangers (use the button that gives an image of the UFO to check), and they are from a MiB like faction. They have better tech than XCom at the early-mid game.

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2015, 06:14:38 pm »
Just tossing an idea to get impressions. *spoilers*

I'm currently thinking of reworking the final mission of the MiB like human faction. Currently, if the game selects MJ12 Operations as the alien mission to perform it will launch Transport Planes and each has a specific battleground. MJ12 Operations is also the very first mission the game performs (this is why you get all the mercenaries on the first month). On the 4th and last UFO, which currently takes place on a HWP Factory, there is an Scientist present that can automatically give Laser Weapons or other advanced tech if captured and interrogated.

My idea at the moment is to expand the 4th UFO mission, otherwise it will get repetitive once players figure out the appearance of the scientist (his face looks different from all other mercenaries) and where it usually hangs out on the HWP factory. Thus I am designing a 100x100 map (4 times the size of a regular 50x50 map) to represent a mercenary base. But unlike regular missions, the objective is not to kill all the enemies, since it would very difficult and time consuming, but to raid and steal advanced tech and then get back to your Skyranger.

The map itself will be a military base and will have a predetermined layout. And included on the map, there will be 3 key positions: the heliport, where an enemy scientist will be located and 2 other special buildings, that will contain inside an item at a specific location, that if recovered and researched will unlock advanced tech. The locations of the Skyranger, heliport and 2 special buildings will be random and spread around the 100x100 map, so once you land you'll have to scout to figure out where your objectives are located. And since after turn 20 all the enemy units become aware of your units location, you'll be on a timer to find and recover something before all the mercenaries begin converging on your location.

As for the possible rewards, my idea is that capturing and interrogating the scientist would unlock an upgraded Skyranger (with the vanilla ability of 14 troops). The techs available on the special buildings would be 4: improved conventional weapons, improved Interceptor, improved HWPs and gaining Laser Weapons tech (it currently costs 9000 days to finish research). Notice that only 2 special buildings will be generated, so you can only recover 2 of those 4 techs (but the Improved Skyranger will always be available).

This mission, which will always appear on the first month and be possible afterwards, is something quite different from the vanilla ones due to its size and complexity. My questions are if it sounds like a good idea and how would you improve it.

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2015, 06:29:13 pm »
Sounds like an impressive mission!!

There definitely need to be clues to the player about the mission and some possible rewards.  ( so they don't just kill/destroy everthing )

Also, the research item needs to be quite distinctive on the map, so that the player can't miss it.  Maybe a cool looking laptop, that pulses, with a "diskette" item for the hand ob, big ob. 

Cheers, Ivan :D

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2015, 07:03:34 pm »
Sounds like an impressive mission!!

There definitely need to be clues to the player about the mission and some possible rewards.  ( so they don't just kill/destroy everthing )

Also, the research item needs to be quite distinctive on the map, so that the player can't miss it.  Maybe a cool looking laptop, that pulses, with a "diskette" item for the hand ob, big ob. 

Cheers, Ivan :D

From what I've been told, TFTD will allow to customize the mission briefing so in the future there's an explanation, until there I will post a readme file explaining the basics. I had already thought of including an arrow pointing towards the items, and the diskette idea is great for the object.

Offline tollworkout

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2015, 07:18:17 pm »
Hobbes

You can now add your own custom intro to the game you should see if you can do that. I was reading TFTD intro and UFO intro and custom intro are now supported.

Offline tollworkout

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2015, 07:21:39 pm »
I wonder. Can you make like a 10 part mission and is a win or lose and have enough ammo and weapons and items distributed between all enemies that you can keep going on and on and on until you win. You'd first go topside then undeground a bunch of levels then you would chase this last bad guy without any weapons likea  civilian which is the bad dude then win the game . LULZ. Whole game would be battlescape.

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2015, 09:06:26 pm »
I wonder. Can you make like a 10 part mission and is a win or lose and have enough ammo and weapons and items distributed between all enemies that you can keep going on and on and on until you win. You'd first go topside then undeground a bunch of levels then you would chase this last bad guy without any weapons likea  civilian which is the bad dude then win the game . LULZ. Whole game would be battlescape.

I've just updated to the latest nightly and I'll start looking into how to change a number of things regarding missions.

Your idea seems possible :)

Offline hellrazor

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2015, 09:23:54 pm »
I've just updated to the latest nightly and I'll start looking into how to change a number of things regarding missions.

Your idea seems possible :)

Would also be interesting to have 4 or 5 stage Cydonia mission ^^

Offline Gifty

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #54 on: February 16, 2015, 06:33:43 am »
So, if you want to give a hand then I'd appreciate if someone could look at the weapon sets and decide what should be removed and how the new weapons should be balanced (keeping the stats of the vanilla weapons). I've already have a few ideas about those issues and we seem to share the same thinking :)
Ok, I haven't had a ton of time to test out all the new weapons, but so far I think the machine pistol/SMG overlap a little too much and one of them should probably go (my vote is keep the SMG, but maybe lower the accuracy/TU costs so it's squarely between the pistol and the rifle). The sniper/LMG also seem to fill a similar support role, but I should probably play more before passing judgement.

As an aside, I cleaned up/reshaded the flamethrower to fit in better with the X-Com art style...



...And I also made a totally new AK that looks a lot cleaner. You don't have to use these, but they're here if you want them. :)


Offline SIMON

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2015, 02:20:57 pm »
Looks very exciting and I may want to use this in my next game but I wondering on two points. Firstly my current game uses XOP's as one of the mods I use and I've noticed that u seem to have added the commander rank to Harvesters & Abductors:
      - alienRank: 0
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 1
        dQty: 1
What was the reason behind this or is this part of the play testing? U've stated the following "Fixing idiosyncrasies and exploits of the original game, such as alien commanders being present in Battleships (despite the UFOpedia stating that they are only found in bases)" so why have them in the above mentioned ufo's.

Secondly for a challenge I now play difficulty level 6 but the no of aliens don't increase beyond superhuman, only their stats. Is it a case of simply increasing the deployment no's in the .rul file or is it more complicated than that? Is there a limit to the no of aliens u can have in a mission particulary in regards to spawn points? I reference the following which may be off the point somewhat so apologies. https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Spawn_Points
 Really looking forward to this mod particularly the mj12 faction and the introduction of the scienctist alien rank.

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2015, 04:25:11 pm »
Ok, I haven't had a ton of time to test out all the new weapons, but so far I think the machine pistol/SMG overlap a little too much and one of them should probably go (my vote is keep the SMG, but maybe lower the accuracy/TU costs so it's squarely between the pistol and the rifle). The sniper/LMG also seem to fill a similar support role, but I should probably play more before passing judgement.

As an aside, I cleaned up/reshaded the flamethrower to fit in better with the X-Com art style...



...And I also made a totally new AK that looks a lot cleaner. You don't have to use these, but they're here if you want them. :)



Well, try out the weapons a bit more. I agree with being an overlap between the Machine Pistol and the SMG but I'd remove the SMG instead, since it's closer to the Rifle than the Machine Pistol.

Looks very exciting and I may want to use this in my next game but I wondering on two points. Firstly my current game uses XOP's as one of the mods I use and I've noticed that u seem to have added the commander rank to Harvesters & Abductors:
      - alienRank: 0
        lowQty: 1
        highQty: 1
        dQty: 1
What was the reason behind this or is this part of the play testing? U've stated the following "Fixing idiosyncrasies and exploits of the original game, such as alien commanders being present in Battleships (despite the UFOpedia stating that they are only found in bases)" so why have them in the above mentioned ufo's.

Those are the alien scientists. If you check alienRaces, you'll see that there are two versions for each race, i.e. STR_SECTOID and STR_SECTOID_BASE. Alien Scientists are rank 0 on the former and Alien Commanders are rank 0 on the latter.

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Secondly for a challenge I now play difficulty level 6 but the no of aliens don't increase beyond superhuman, only their stats. Is it a case of simply increasing the deployment no's in the .rul file or is it more complicated than that? Is there a limit to the no of aliens u can have in a mission particulary in regards to spawn points? I reference the following which may be off the point somewhat so apologies. https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Spawn_Points
 Really looking forward to this mod particularly the mj12 faction and the introduction of the scienctist alien rank.

If there are no more empty spawn points then the game will simply add more units to the existing ones:

Offline SIMON

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2015, 04:44:28 pm »
Silly me, didn't notice that, thanks for clearing that up. Was number crunching there and from my figures I may have to go back down to superhuman level when I play this mod otherwise I'm going to get mc'd all over the place especially with the hybrid terrorists as on level 6 if I'm correct on my figures a hybrid wud have psi strength=136 and psi skill=76 meaning they wud have a 100% chance to mc any troop @ 29 squares, well outside normal visual range! At superhuman level this distance of a 100% chance drops to 3 squares. Thank goodness u only gave them 35 health. I think it'll be a case of blasting with high explosives etc as soon as u see them. The real vision mod will help on this.

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #58 on: February 16, 2015, 05:04:29 pm »
Silly me, didn't notice that, thanks for clearing that up. Was number crunching there and from my figures I may have to go back down to superhuman level when I play this mod otherwise I'm going to get mc'd all over the place especially with the hybrid terrorists as on level 6 if I'm correct on my figures a hybrid wud have psi strength=136 and psi skill=76 meaning they wud have a 100% chance to mc any troop @ 29 squares, well outside normal visual range! At superhuman level this distance of a 100% chance drops to 3 squares. Thank goodness u only gave them 35 health. I think it'll be a case of blasting with high explosives etc as soon as u see them. The real vision mod will help on this.

Something else I've changed: all the alien's Psi Strength has been increased by 50%

Offline SIMON

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Re: Re: [BETA][EXPANSION] UFO Redux - Playtesters needed
« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2015, 09:05:11 pm »
Woops, I think my figures r badly wrong as psi% chance = 100/56(AS+25-DS-D) number crunches to a 100% chance @ 28 squares distance and 0% chance @ 84 squares. I think I was allowing for Batman armor which gives u +15 psi strength and +5 psi skill but even that number crunches to a 100% chance @ 12 squares distance and 0% chance @ 68 squares. These r both on superhuman level. I think on level 6 it wud be a 100% chance @ 38 squares distance even with batman armor. I think in my earlier calculations I forgot to add in the constant of 25 for mind control! Even with what I'm seriously considering uping psi strength cap to (115) and batman armor, they'll still be a bloomin challenge on superhuman level as  @ 20 squares distance they'll still have at least a 58% chance for mc and a 94% chance to panic @ 20 squares. Funny enough I was thinking along ur lines the other day about how weak psionically some of the aliens r. But hey that's taking all the fun out of it isn't it. I think the lesson to learn will be 3 fold, use loads of smoke grenades, don't let them c u and if they do c u on ur turn make sure they don't live to tell their chums! Well when I finish my current game this will certainly be a unique challenge to try tho I'll likely get creamed.