Author Topic: Incendiaries  (Read 10793 times)

Offline Surrealistik

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Incendiaries
« on: August 08, 2015, 11:03:06 am »
So how do these work in openXcom/TFTD?

Like the original incendiaries ( https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Incendiary ), minus the bugginess?

Offline kikimoristan

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Re: Incendiaries
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2015, 11:14:17 am »

Offline doctor medic

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Re: Incendiaries
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2015, 11:14:42 am »
They are useless but this time without killing your squad if you fire them while they are sitting in fire tiles

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Incendiaries
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2015, 11:18:28 am »
Any mods that make fire/incendiaries not utter shit for anything other than illumination?

Offline kikimoristan

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Re: Incendiaries
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2015, 11:19:40 am »
incendiary in ufo phosphor in tftd does little damage but does over time to whoever sits in the fire and can even make units or objects catch fire for extra burn time. after fire is done you get a bit of smoke which can protect your troops usually the outer edges have smoke

incendiary is garbage and is just expensive illumination

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Incendiaries
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2015, 11:35:52 am »
Sure, but is there a mod that makes them better?

Offline Meridian

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Re: Incendiaries
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2015, 11:40:44 am »
There will be, in time.
TFTD has only just come out (unofficially), and doesn't have a good mod support yet. Give it time.

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Incendiaries
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2015, 05:15:06 pm »
As far as I know, there is no way to add more damage to incendiary weapons besides making them fire more like the flamethrower mods, unless you go for OpenXCom Extended where you can set damage done.

So don't hold you breath for a phosphor torpedo that does a decent amount of damage in regular OpenXCom.

Offline yrizoud

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Re: Incendiaries
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2015, 06:41:16 pm »
You can make a tiny mod that modifies the damage factor of "incendiary damage" for every armor / alien. If you multiply by 3 compared to their original value, everybody takes triple damage.

Offline kikimoristan

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Re: Incendiaries
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2015, 07:01:20 pm »
problem with incendiary is the whole system stinks

units take a small amount of initial damage followed by higher sustained damage while they are inside/on fire

aliens don't like sitting inside fire so they usually take very little damage as they leave right away.

one time i tested i takes about 4,5 hits of incendiary to kill a sectoid. aka garbage

i guess it could be useful for crowd control
forcing aliens to go trough fire to get to you
forcing aliens to go alternate routes by placing fire on their direct path to your unit

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Incendiaries
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2015, 07:45:41 pm »
Besides making light, fire is good for a few things, but killing aliens is indeed not really one of them unless you use a flamethrower mod. The most disappointing ones are the incendiary rockets where the big number makes you think it'll be awesome and then it does nothing.

It can:
- Slowly kill aliens in a difficult to access area, without destroying anything. This is especially good if you can manage to set the interior of a UFO on fire before breaching. It won't destroy anything, not even the squishy stuff on the floor, but eventually it will kill some aliens or at least damage them so they are easier to kill when you breach. Especially good with the incendiary grenade mod on crashed UFOs (since you can throw the grenade in through the hole in the roof).

- For base defence missions with a long bottleneck, setting the whole thing on fire can work well at tenderising the aliens as they walk to you, without damaging any of the loot, unlike shooting rockets down the hall. It can even put them on the backfoot as they don't want to step in the fire so end up on the defensive in your hangars (less good if they are psi aliens that don't care about distance). You can then keep pushing them back and sniping a few every turn before retreating safely in side rooms.

- Influence where aliens go. Ever thought "This would be a perfect sniping position for an alien"? Set it on fire and it ain't that good any more, as far as the aliens are concerned. You could put smoke there, since aliens only shoot at what they can see, but if you do, you can't see the alien either (and they can still throw grenades).. I like to put a proxy grenade in places I don't want aliens to go to, but if one goes there and dies, I prefer setting the place on fire to deter any other, since putting another proxy would destroy the loot if triggered.

The advantage is mostly preserving loot while damaging aliens, which is very relevant in some mods (Piratez!) and always good for your balance.

Offline yrizoud

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Re: Incendiaries
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2015, 08:16:25 pm »
Arthanor explained it very well : Fire is a weapon of terrain control. It robs your opponent of defensive positions and mobility, and this can save more lives than raw damage.
In terrains like the UFO farm land, fire is devastating.

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Incendiaries
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2015, 09:23:52 pm »
I'm aware of the potential tactical applications of incendiaries.

The problem is that outside of illumination, and the very early game, they are completely impractical and ineffective, unless you like spamming the hell out of the end turn button and using far too much of it.

Offline doctor medic

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Re: Incendiaries
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2015, 09:26:57 pm »
Late game where mutants appear and ethereals floating makes fire less appealing

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Incendiaries
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2015, 09:44:56 pm »
You guys need to try the flamethrower mods if you think fire can't do damage. It is a great way to use incendiary damage to kill things in a different way (ignore armor and reliably deal a small amount of damage many times). It is a great weapon against cyberdiscs and gazers (cyclops in Piratez).

Otherwise, yeah, sure, fire is not a great end game weapon (if you don't use flamethrowers, which are at least decent mid/late game weapons). What's so bad about that? Move on and use a different technology...

There's no great end game ap weapon either in vanilla xcom, and even mods like the gauss ones will never be great against mutons, unless jacked up with different ammo or crazy raw damage numbers (which would make them too good against other aliens). In fact, mutons are a great counter to early game tech (ap and fire) since they are very resistant to the first, and have so much HP that it would take forever for even a flamethrower to damage them. I think that makes sense. They are the elite of the alien invaders, after all.